could you fold pocket aces pre flop??

[jimjoachim 0]

I cant say that I ever have and not sure I ever will but I can understand some of the logic behind doing it;Scenario 1 - Super satallite were all paid players get same prize. There are 11 players left with top 10 winning entry into wsop main event. Your sittin 2nd in chips and a short stack moves all in is cold called by another player before the chip leader reraises all in. Would you fold??? Scenario 2 - Your sitting at the final 2 tables of the wsop. 5 players move all in. all of the players cover you and all have equal chip stacks. Barring some sort of miracle board one player is going to scoop the lot busting the other 4 and put you at the final table. Would you fold???My thinking is to definatley fold in scenario 1. You have absolutley no incentive to call!!Scenario 2 is a funny one. Yes folding and making the final table would be a strong option but it would be nice to call, win and go to the final table with a raymaresque chip stack. Although I think I may err on the side of caution and fold. With 5 players all-in you could nearly assume the other 2 aces are gone and your hoping your 1pair is going to stand up 5 handed.Am I over cautious??What would you do??

[knght311 0]

Scenario 1Foldscenario 2...how short stacked are you? If you are THE short Stack...why not try and quintiple up, that would be nice

[justblaze 0]

scenario 1 - easy fold.scenario 2 - you might as well start lighting $100 bills on fire if you fold here.

[FrostyMcNugget 0]

Scenario 1- Fold (Easy play I think)Scenario 2- Call (Play to win, you have to think the other players have pocket pairs and most of each others outs. Every one is drawing very thin to you.)

[runningKingz 0]

i wouldnt fold pockets aces preflop..

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

Here on the forum a thread about this pops up about once every month or so.Most anyone worth anything agrees that a fold is correct in situation #1. Someone even figured it out once that if you have about 30% of the chips in play, someone else has 40% of the chips in play, you're in second and first respectively, and on the bubble in a satellite where the prizes are the same, then you should definitely fold in that situation. The reason for it is with that big a chip lead, you're something like 96% to be able to win 10th place with your chip position. If you call with your aces (to put yourself all-in and at risk of elimination), you're likely not going to be more than a 5-1 favorite over the guy that has you covered, no matter what he has. And, by doubling through him, your chances of making 10th (the same as first) go from 96% to 98%, vs. not worse than a 1 in 6 chance of busting on the bubble, which would really suck.The second scenario is the one people have difficulty with. I am of the opinion that poker should be played as if you have an infinite bankroll and aren't limited by element-of-risk-type situations. If I'm playing 2/5 no limit, I try not to think about a 1000 dollar bet to me, I try to think what the EV of this play is. If it's a good call, I'll make the call.But, in a tournament situation the fact that you can't rebuy always affects strategy. There are situations I can cook up for folding aces preflop in a tournament, but only if the EV from folding (because of pay structure) far outweighs the EV of calling.In a cash game however, there are no circumstances I would fold aces preflop. However, that's predicated on the assumption that I have bankroll management and wouldn't play a cash game I couldn't afford to lose. So if someone put me all in for a million billion dollars with aces, if I were actually playing in that game then I'd have 15-25 buyins of 100x the BB, so it'd make my call pretty easy.

[dms26 3]

1- Fold, there is nothing to be gained by calling, 1st pays the same as 10th2- Call, you make decisions based on the long term not the short. Calling is +EV, if you win there you take a huge pot heading into the final table putting you in great position to win. Folding is weak and may help you limp a few spots up for a little more cash, but calling is by far best.

[jervmoney334 0]

how do you not fold in scenario 1

[dms26 3]

i wouldnt fold pockets aces preflop..

Why would you even consider calling in the first scenario?

[SapphireTiger 0]

In terms of Scenario 2, it really depends on your purpose.If you're trying to place as far into the money as you can, it's a fold. if you're trying to win the entire thing...probably call. But if you want to be safe and move forward into the money, you shoudl probably wait until you have a better edge.

[cdddc75 0]

scenario 1 - easy fold.scenario 2 - you might as well start lighting $100 bills on fire if you fold here.

I think calling in scenario 2 could be the equivalent to lighting a big wad of $100s on fire.10 Marcel Luske (Amsterdam, Netherlands) $373,000 11 Dewey Archer (Lake Charles, LA, United States) $373,000 12 James Grimes (Houston, TX, United States) $373,000 13 John Murphy (San Jose, CA, United States) $275,000 14 Kevin Bott (Brexburg, ID, United States) $275,000 15 Eddy Scharf (Cologne, Germany) $275,000Now if calling in scenario 2 would put make me one of the two or three largest stacks...it might be worth the risk. Odds are though that the best I can do is triple up since one of the other five at that point likely has AA as well.I need more information about the other players and comparative chip stacks in scenario 2 before I could definitely say call or fold.

[hotdog da 2rd 0]

is it okay to check if my signature works, thx. :dance:

[PhishForChips 0]

In a cash game ? Never.

[GTKID 0]

Taking that bet in scenario 2 to quintiple up is probly not right. You are better off saving your money when you have a better advantage jsut double up. With 4 outher people you are not a prohibitive favorite. You are probably less then racing. And the amount of money you will move up from folding will be a lot assuming only one person wins that hand. Even if you want to win you could be better off folding. It depends on the size of your stack.On a side note i just folded AA preflop in a 50/5 tourney cause i had to go do something for a second. O well.

[OrangeKing 0]

Folding in scenario 1, as many have said, is a no brainer.Folding in scenario 2 can only be done as a short stack, and even then, depends just how short you are.Blinds at 10k/20k with a 2k ante and you have 200k left? Not short enough. Same scenario, but you have 20k left? I'd say still not short enough, but we're getting closer.Same scenario, but you only have 1k left after having put in the 2k ante?In that case...you should probably fold, and move up as far as possible when several people bust out of the tournament. Even if you win if you call (assuming it's a full table and both blinds aren't in the 5 people who went all in, which is the best possible scenario for you), your new stack will only be 21k, which won't really improve your chances of moving up any further. However, sitting and waiting will almost certainly move you up the prize ladder.

[r18 0]

I had a tough situation recently that sort of applies to the first scenario.Super satellite- top 4 players win entry to a more expensive tourney.5 players left. I'm in 4th place and waiting for 5th place player to double up or get eliminated. On my big blind the 5th place player moves all in. I look down and see pocket kings. I figure I'm ahead in the hand but still have to admit that I really wasn't looking to get involved in any pot. We turn over the cards- he's got pocket 4's.Incredibly (for him) the flop was king, 4, 4.That one kept me up for a few hours. I guess at some point you just got to get your chips in the middle with an edge and hope for the best. But that was rough.

[justblaze 0]

scenario 1 - easy fold.scenario 2 - you might as well start lighting $100 bills on fire if you fold here.

I think calling in scenario 2 could be the equivalent to lighting a big wad of $100s on fire.10 Marcel Luske (Amsterdam, Netherlands) $373,000 11 Dewey Archer (Lake Charles, LA, United States) $373,000 12 James Grimes (Houston, TX, United States) $373,000 13 John Murphy (San Jose, CA, United States) $275,000 14 Kevin Bott (Brexburg, ID, United States) $275,000 15 Eddy Scharf (Cologne, Germany) $275,000Now if calling in scenario 2 would put make me one of the two or three largest stacks...it might be worth the risk. Odds are though that the best I can do is triple up since one of the other five at that point likely has AA as well.I need more information about the other players and comparative chip stacks in scenario 2 before I could definitely say call or fold.

unless you have a ridiculously short stack, you have to call. moving from 15th to 10th brings a marginal pay increase. moving from 10th to 1st brings an enormous pay increase. your equity here is too big to fold, and in most tourneys the money is weighted at the top.

[TruePoker 1]

1 - easy fold,2 - easy fold, if 3 players get busted out, think how much more money you make by folding this hand....depends whether your a huge short stack "take 100k more", medium stack, taking 5x your chips to final table would make you a big threat to everyone where you can get a lot more than 100k, quite a large short stack, still a few people lower than you, you will easily make 8+ with your stack and ability..

[Sick Daddy 0]

Scenario.UB SnG 3 leftI am in big blind holding AA.Small blind raises minimum.I reraise pot.He reraises all in.I go to click on call, overrunning my mouse, clicking "Fold n Show" :evil:

[AC BillP 0]

Yes I have folded AA once in a live cash game at the Horseshoe in 2001. The situation was no limit and the bets had gone raise $60, raise $150$ , Call $150, and then a 75 year old cowboy made it $1500 straight. I was 98% sure I recognised him from a $30-$60 lowball game in Vegas in 1971 when I ran into a crew of cheats in with several dealers. I'd won about $6000 in some frat games at Cal Berkley, but got taken big time (I wasn't even 19 years old) when I stopped in Vegas. One player called him allin anyway and the guy flopped 4 7's so it turned out OK whether I was right or not in my memory. The old guy left after there was a dealer change in about a 1/2 an hour, big winners.This has nothing to do with stategy, except my being careful of all the temporary dealers hired during world series time w/o background checks. For what it's worth---

[fubar1 0]

Scenario 1 easy foldScenario 2 I think the reward outweighs the risk you already have a decent payday at this point in the tournament

[Guest XXEddie]

how do you not fold in scenario 1

by pushing all your chips in the poton the second oneI am about to start punch people for these :would you fold AA" when that situation is IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!never at a WSOP table will 5 people go allin PF that is stupid

[bigedjr17 0]

Yes I have folded AA once in a live cash game at the Horseshoe in 2001.  The situation was no limit and the bets had gone raise $60, raise $150$ , Call $150, and then a 75 year old cowboy made it $1500 straight.   I was 98% sure I recognised him from a $30-$60 lowball game in Vegas in 1971 when I ran into a crew of cheats in with several dealers.  I'd won about $6000 in some frat games at Cal Berkley, but got taken big time (I wasn't even 19 years old) when I stopped in Vegas.  One player called him allin anyway and the guy flopped 4 7's so it turned out OK whether I was right or not in my memory.  The old guy left after there was a dealer change in about a 1/2 an hour, big winners.This has nothing to do with stategy, except my being careful of all the temporary dealers hired during world series time w/o background checks.  For what it's worth---

If that's true, that's really scary..Kinda makes me nervous to play any high cash games during WSOP time if I'm there..

[Guest XXEddie]

1 - easy fold,2 - easy fold,  if 3 players get busted out, think how much more money you make by folding this hand....depends whether your a huge short stack "take 100k more", medium stack, taking 5x your chips to final table would make you a big threat to everyone where you can get a lot more than 100k, quite a large short stack, still a few people lower than you, you will easily make 8+ with your stack and ability..

....IF three players get bustedand if there are 20-15 players lefteven three players getting busted doesnt do anything in payday

[dontlookdown 0]

in the first one u have to call. a short stack moved in and even if u call the only way u dont finish at least 10th is if the short stack wins the pot. u have more chips then him so if u both go out u finish ahead of him. ur a favorite in the hand and u only have to beat the short stack.