Could The Libertarian Revolution Be Coming?

[TrulyRaNd0m 0]

With all the bailouts happening and the ridiculous exponential growth of government in the past couple decades, when will people decide they've had enough and go with a party that actually stands against big government?I voted Republican this election, and it was tough because I definitely hate big government and don't feel McCain would've been a great alternative. How many of you Republicans on this forum are with me on this? Do you see a future where the party abandons social control and runs on straight libertarian values?I know I don't post a whole lot but I lurk moar... and I really value your opinions.Thanks,- TR

[Balloon guy 158]

While the libertaian party espouses legalizing drugs, they will remain a fringe group.Better to push the republicans to the more conservative leaders.Otherwise you'll just split the party vote.And yes, I know exactly what that means, voting for a party with bad ideas.We have a 2 party system, we had a Perot give us Clinton's twice.

[copernicus 0]

No./thread

[BaseJester 1]

While the libertaian party espouses legalizing drugs, they will remain a fringe group.Better to push the republicans to the more conservative leaders.Otherwise you'll just split the party vote.

How exactly do you, who will vote for Republicans as long as they are humanoid, have any influence on who the party runs?

[No_Neck 0]

RON PAUL FOR KING!

[Jeepster80125 0]

I was going to make a new thread but found this one, so here goes. I like most of what this says.What It Feels Like To Be A LibertarianJohn HasnasAssociate ProfessorMcDonough School of BusinessGeorgetown UniversityPolitical analysts frequently consider what it means to be a libertarian. In fact, in 1997, Charles Murray published a short book entitled "What It Means to Be a Libertarian" that does an excellent job of presenting the core principles of libertarian political philosophy. But almost no one ever discusses what it feels like to be a libertarian. How does it actually feel to be someone who holds the principles described in Murray’s book?I’ll tell you. It feels bad. Being a libertarian means living with an almost unendurable level of frustration. It means being subject to unending scorn and derision despite being inevitably proven correct by events. How does it feel to be a libertarian? Imagine what the internal life of Cassandra must have been and you will have a pretty good idea.Imagine spending two decades warning that government policy is leading to a major economic collapse, and then, when the collapse comes, watching the world conclude that markets do not work.Imagine continually explaining that markets function because they have a built in corrective mechanism; that periodic contractions are necessary to weed out unproductive ventures; that continually loosening credit to avoid such corrections just puts off the day of reckoning and inevitably leads to a larger recession; that this is precisely what the government did during the 1920's that led to the great depression; and then, when the recession hits, seeing it offered as proof of the failure of laissez-faire capitalism.Imagine spending years decrying federal intervention in the home mortgage market; pointing out the dangers associated with legislation such as the Community Reinvestment Act that forces lenders to make more risky loans than they otherwise would; testifying before Congress on the lack of oversight and inevitable insolvency of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to legislators who angrily respond either that one is "exaggerat[ing] a threat of safety and soundness . . . which I do not see" (Barney Frank) or "[i[f it ain’t broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals" (Maxine Waters) or "[T[he problem that we have and that we are faced with is maybe some individuals who wanted to do away with GSEs in the first place" (Gregory Meeks) or that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are "one of the great success stories of all time" (Christopher Dodd); and arguing that the moral hazard created by the implicit federal backing of such privately-owned government-sponsored enterprises is likely to set off a wave of unjustifiably risky investments, and then, when the housing market implodes under the weight of bad loans, watching the collapse get blamed on the greed and rapaciousness of "Wall Street."I remember attending a lecture at Georgetown in the mid-1990s given by a member of the libertarian Cato Institute in which he predicted that, unless changed, government policy would trigger an economic crisis by 2006. That prediction was obviously ideologically-motivated alarmism. After all, the crisis did not occur until 2008.Libertarians spend their lives accurately predicting the future effects of government policy. Their predictions are accurate because they are derived from Hayek’s insights into the limitations of human knowledge, from the recognition that the people who comprise the government respond to incentives just like anyone else and are not magically transformed to selfless agents of the good merely by accepting government employment, from the awareness that for government to provide a benefit to some, it must first take it from others, and from the knowledge that politicians cannot repeal the laws of economics. For the same reason, their predictions are usually negative and utterly inconsistent with the utopian wishful-thinking that lies at the heart of virtually all contemporary political advocacy. And because no one likes to hear that he cannot have his cake and eat it too or be told that his good intentions cannot be translated into reality either by waving a magic wand or by passing legislation, these predictions are greeted not merely with disbelief, but with derision.It is human nature to want to shoot the messenger bearing unwelcome tidings. And so, for the sin of continually pointing out that the emperor has no clothes, libertarians are attacked as heartless bastards devoid of compassion for the less fortunate, despicable flacks for the rich or for business interests, unthinking dogmatists who place blind faith in the free market, or, at best, members of the lunatic fringe.Cassandra’s curse was to always tell the truth about the future, but never be believed. If you add to that curse that she would be ridiculed, derided, and shunned for making her predictions, you have a pretty fair approximation of what it feels like to be a libertarian.If you’d like a taste of what it feels like to be a libertarian, try telling people that the incoming Obama Administration is advocating precisely those aspects of FDR’s New Deal that prolonged the great depression for a decade; that propping up failed and failing ventures with government money in order to save jobs in the present merely shifts resources from relatively more to relatively less productive uses, impedes the corrective process, undermines the economic growth necessary for recovery, and increases unemployment in the long term; and that any "economic" stimulus package will inexorably be made to serve political rather than economic ends, and see what kind of reaction you get. And trust me, it won’t feel any better five or ten years from now when everything you have just said has been proven true and Obama, like FDR, is nonetheless revered as the savior of the country.

[PillyPill 0]

It may not be the Libertarian party that will be the revolution, but the Republican party may be forced to adopt a Libertarian platform minus the drugs I guess. I have been a regular listener of Glenn Beck for the last 6 or 8 months. To me, he is the biggest media name of the Libertarian movement. He is tired of the two parties and is ready to push for it. He has a new book out called Common Sense that is selling well. And every day, someone calls in asking when the revolution will happen. Take a listen if you have not.

[checkymcfold 0]

I have been a regular listener of Glenn Beck for the last 6 or 8 months. To me, he is the biggest media name of the Libertarian movement.

good luck, libertarians. (find a new spokesman)

[strategy 4]

Imagine spending years decrying federal intervention in the home mortgage market; pointing out the dangers associated with legislation such as the Community Reinvestment Act that forces lenders to make more risky loans than they otherwise would

really bothers me to see this easily debunked claim trotted out over and over again. no. absolutely not. the banks had shitty oversight and made risky loans because they believed prices would be increasing across the board. even if that basic concept weren't simple enough, we have proof that they intentionally used phony appraisers repeatedly.I don't know why people believe a gigantic spike in prices during this decade, limited to only select wealthy areas, had anything to do with legislation from the carter era, but it's dead wrong.that quote from BG about the libertarians staying fringe because of their drug policy gets more and more inaccurate as the months pass, doesn't it?

[CaneBrain 95]

good luck, libertarians. (find a new spokesman)

I can't think of anyone worse to be the face of the Libertarian movement. Glenn Beck is a couple tacos short of a combination platter upstairs.

[strategy 4]

I can't think of anyone worse to be the face of the Libertarian movement. Glenn Beck is a couple tacos short of a combination platter upstairs.

[CaneBrain 95]

The GOP is doing everything they can to push people away so maybe the Libertarian party has a chance.I mean, seriously, are there ANY republicans not cheating on their wives? At least Sanford had the good sense to get some time in Buenos Aires while he gave his mistress the old moral values injection. Fun city.

[strategy 4]

The GOP is doing everything they can to push people away so maybe the Libertarian party has a chance.

we only REALLY need the fiscal responsibility from the libertarian platform. the rest of it is entirely open to interpretation. if nothing else, we've learned that there's a LOT of room for government error with our system.

[Balloon guy 158]

really bothers me to see this easily debunked claim trotted out over and over again. no. absolutely not. the banks had shitty oversight and made risky loans because they believed prices would be increasing across the board. even if that basic concept weren't simple enough, we have proof that they intentionally used phony appraisers repeatedly.I don't know why people believe a gigantic spike in prices during this decade, limited to only select wealthy areas, had anything to do with legislation from the carter era, but it's dead wrong.that quote from BG about the libertarians staying fringe because of their drug policy gets more and more inaccurate as the months pass, doesn't it?

Two truths in life:1. I get better with age2. Fast food chicken is getting greasierOh and movie popcorn is getting worse also, but that didn't make it into stone yet.The libertarian party revolution is a complete and utter failure of an idea as long as they target the republican party.Like Welfare reform, the republicans could never get it passed, but Clinton could, and Ted Kennedy's No Children Left Behind could never get passed, until Bush put his name on it early in his presidency.Until the Libertarians realize that they have to be a bi-partisan vote stealer, not a primarily republican one, they will only cause democrats to win, which in turn will backlash and make the republican converts drop them as unviable. Happened already with Perot, and too many people remember that ended up with Clinton for 8 years.And they need to down play their wacko leftist ideas that they think makes them wiser, when in fact it just makes them fringer....fringe-like?Their dabbling with anarchistic undertones, making the play for almost no government control etc. is the political equivalent of Ayn Rand's naive belief in capitalism being the perfect government system. You ignore the reality of history to pretend that large masses of people will do the right thing when given a free hand. Protecting the minorities, protecting the environment, protecting the consumer all require a touch of socialism which is government control. Without it you will have polluted streams from child labor making dangerous water pipes that explode when expando bud from Afghanistan is smoked in it. That stuff will rip you up without a republican in office trying to make the dealers criminals.

[Balloon guy 158]

The GOP is doing everything they can to push people away so maybe the Libertarian party has a chance.I mean, seriously, are there ANY republicans not cheating on their wives? At least Sanford had the good sense to get some time in Buenos Aires while he gave his mistress the old moral values injection. Fun city.

Ha ha ha.Keep believing the USA Today newspaper.The republicans aren't in any positions of power, so come election time, who do you think is going to get the blame?Mid term elections will be your party's wake up call.They will hit the smooze button...againAnd I thought sex was a private thing that had nothing to do with a person's ability to do his/her job?

[dapokerbum 0]

And I thought sex was a private thing that had nothing to do with a person's ability to do his/her job?

Nope only Blow Jays have nothing to do with a person's job

[Balloon guy 158]

Nope only Blow Jays have nothing to do with a person's job

Chelsea came home from college and Hillary met her at the door.Hillary: "You enjoying college?"Chelsea: "Yes Mom."Hillary: "Have you been seeing any boys?"Chelsea: "Yes Mom."Hillary: "You haven't been having sex with them have you?"Chelsea: "Not according to Dad."

[Sal Paradise 57]

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[CaneBrain 95]

Ha ha ha.Keep believing the USA Today newspaper.The republicans aren't in any positions of power, so come election time, who do you think is going to get the blame?Mid term elections will be your party's wake up call.They will hit the smooze button...againAnd I thought sex was a private thing that had nothing to do with a person's ability to do his/her job?

I dont care. But that doesnt mean it isnt delightfully amusing.I expect the GOP to pick up a few seats in 2010 in large part because they could hardly get much worse.I only get to read the USA Today when I stay in a hotel.

[NickZepp 0]

Once government has control of something they never let go of that control so the only way to change that is to overturn that government and create a new one and try not to give it as much control.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Until the Libertarians realize that they have to be a bi-partisan vote stealer, not a primarily republican one, they will only cause democrats to win, which in turn will backlash and make the republican converts drop them as unviable. Happened already with Perot, and too many people remember that ended up with Clinton for 8 years.And they need to down play their wacko leftist ideas that they think makes them wiser, when in fact it just makes them fringer....fringe-like?Their dabbling with anarchistic undertones, making the play for almost no government control etc. is the political equivalent of Ayn Rand's naive belief in capitalism being the perfect government system. You ignore the reality of history to pretend that large masses of people will do the right thing when given a free hand. Protecting the minorities, protecting the environment, protecting the consumer all require a touch of socialism which is government control. Without it you will have polluted streams from child labor making dangerous water pipes that explode when expando bud from Afghanistan is smoked in it. That stuff will rip you up without a republican in office trying to make the dealers criminals.

Wait, what? A serious political post by BG that I completely agree with?

[strategy 4]

Until the Libertarians realize that they have to be a bi-partisan vote stealer, not a primarily republican one, they will only cause democrats to win, which in turn will backlash and make the republican converts drop them as unviable. Happened already with Perot, and too many people remember that ended up with Clinton for 8 years.And they need to down play their wacko leftist ideas that they think makes them wiser, when in fact it just makes them fringer....fringe-like?Their dabbling with anarchistic undertones, making the play for almost no government control etc. is the political equivalent of Ayn Rand's naive belief in capitalism being the perfect government system. You ignore the reality of history to pretend that large masses of people will do the right thing when given a free hand. Protecting the minorities, protecting the environment, protecting the consumer all require a touch of socialism which is government control. Without it you will have polluted streams from child labor making dangerous water pipes that explode when expando bud from Afghanistan is smoked in it. That stuff will rip you up without a republican in office trying to make the dealers criminals.

I'm with you. I'm just pointing out that the drug issue is hardly what keeps people from taking them seriously.

[brvheart 1,752]

really bothers me to see this easily debunked claim trotted out over and over again. no. absolutely not. the banks had shitty oversight and made risky loans because they believed prices would be increasing across the board. even if that basic concept weren't simple enough, we have proof that they intentionally used phony appraisers repeatedly.I don't know why people believe a gigantic spike in prices during this decade, limited to only select wealthy areas, had anything to do with legislation from the carter era, but it's dead wrong.that quote from BG about the libertarians staying fringe because of their drug policy gets more and more inaccurate as the months pass, doesn't it?

Sometimes the truth can be bothersome.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

No./thread

I dont' think I've ever agreed with cop as much as I do in this post.

[hblask 1]

good luck, libertarians. (find a new spokesman)

Most libertarians think Beck is an idiot, just like the rest of America.