Lhe Challenge(?) Thread

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I think the bolded is often a big problem for players when they play against calling stations. They often will try and isolate them with hands like J9 sooted and Q 10 off and they end up putting in too many bets without actually having a hand and when you're playing a calling station you have to have a hand to show down with.I'm not saying that is what happened to you but it's something I see a lot with regs who forget that there is nothing wrong with calling preflop with some hands and using that calling station to give you opportunities for multiway pots in short handed games. I look at the calling station as giving me a chance to play my 64 sooooted cheaply preflop.

Well, when the blinds are tight, and the limper limps with around 90 percent of his hands, I think top 20 percent hands like j9 and q10 are fine to isolate with. The idea is those hands are great against his range. In order for this to work, the people on your left have to be reasonably tight and passive, which they were. And he wasn't really a calling station, either. He was a bet/calling station, which is a lil different. I did play small suited connectors and such behind him, calling, but I think middle paint 1 and 2 gappers, the KJ to j9off's, often don't play so well multiway.In retrospect, I should have probably tightened up a little on my raising, as he would so often bet into me with little or nothing. I was pretty much the only one at the table he could beat. Looking at his stats, over 150 hands he was 88/10/1.5 with a 3.57 bb/100 over that session. Also, that "10" was never, ever with good hands. He would limp/reraise with trash, or raise in early position with ace rag, but that was like the only hands he ever raised pre flop, he limped/called with big pairs and big aces. I'm not sure what my stats were that session, but my results were -32.63 bb/100, so you can see was the door that my money went through to get spread around the table. It was my worst session in a long while, I quit while I was behind even though his stats were so insane.I'm down about 100 bb over the last 500 hands, and it makes me want to murder. So I've taken a break from LHE and am grinding the double or nothing SNG's, which is relaxing.

[DinkDonk 1]

I think the bolded is often a big problem for players when they play against calling stations. They often will try and isolate them with hands like J9 sooted and Q 10 off and they end up putting in too many bets without actually having a hand and when you're playing a calling station you have to have a hand to show down with.I'm not saying that is what happened to you but it's something I see a lot with regs who forget that there is nothing wrong with calling preflop with some hands and using that calling station to give you opportunities for multiway pots in short handed games. I look at the calling station as giving me a chance to play my 64 sooooted cheaply preflop.

I think its more of a stylistic problem than a fundamental error. Isolating light can be a great play if you adjust to the villain tendencies well postflop. If the guy donkbets most flops, you get to choose whether one or two bets go in on any flop. Since he's not check raising, we get to see a turn for one small bet, or we can charge him 2 when we choose. Getting HU with a bad player in position with a hand that plays well postflop is pretty much never a bad thing. Just don't treat the situation like you would when you have fold equity. Adjust to his tendencies. If the guy is going to donkbet the turn a lot, don't raise for free cards or cheap showdowns. If the guy is a calling station, don't c-bet and 2 barrel like you would when you have fold equity. But, if you are getting HU in position with dead blinds in the pot, isolate all day imo.

[navybuttons 15]

I think its more of a stylistic problem than a fundamental error. Isolating light can be a great play if you adjust to the villain tendencies well postflop.

i would say it's just the "spot." there is a play that will maximize expectation long term. bob just sees that people (which he calls online robots) make isolation plays too much, or don't maximize expectation long term because they've been taught (incorrectly) that you should isolate more than is optimal (not GTO).

[DinkDonk 1]

i would say it's just the "spot." there is a play that will maximize expectation long term. bob just sees that people (which he calls online robots) make isolation plays too much, or don't maximize expectation long term because they've been taught (incorrectly) that you should isolate more than is optimal (not GTO).

What I meant, but didn't clearly state, was that in many cases, people aren't actually isolating too lighltly, they are just playing poorly postflop once they have isolated, and so they go back and say that the error was playing the hand in the first place when it usually isn't. Does that make sense?

[checkymcfold 0]

i THINK what bob's getting at obliquely is that oftentimes those sorts of player can be used not as a guy to pick off one limped bet at a time by isolating, but rather as an avenue of inducing largely multiway pots with good drawing hands against tables that might be largely weak postflop. if there are a lot of weak postflop players at your table, i'd suggest that you get more longterm expectation (although also more variance) out of inducing multiway pots with drawing hands by limping along than you would by isolating.if, however, the players are on the weak/tight side or your style has lots of metagame concerns that involve winning pots without showdowns, then isolation with middle of the road type hands is probably better significantly more often.it's worth saying, though, that if postflop isolation is just as possible as preflop isolation (ie, those tighties behind you ain't gonna call two cold on the flop without top pair), then you can get the best of both worlds pretty often by limping and isolating postflop if you flop better than average.

[DinkDonk 1]

Yep. These are good points. Limping behind is often a good and extremely underutilized way of exploiting bad players, especially ones who you are in position on. You can use their donkbetting for your own benefit, like Checky says. You can shut out the field by raising them, or you can build large pots by calling them. Just always think about what the most profitable way to play a hand is each time you're in a situation. Don't go in with a pre-written playbook to isolate, or really to do anything scripted. Determine and employ the best course of action at all times. Your level of focus is an absolutely monumental variable in your win-rate.

[Dirtydutch 8]

(It's nice to see this thread being used for something other than bad beats and varience, lately.)

[FCP Bob 1,314]

i would say it's just the "spot." there is a play that will maximize expectation long term. bob just sees that people (which he calls online robots) make isolation plays too much, or don't maximize expectation long term because they've been taught (incorrectly) that you should isolate more than is optimal (not GTO).

My main point is pretty much that. Far too many players do things because they've been taught that it's the right way to play without knowing why. Raise good, call bad, grunt. Kinda like Republicans with the mantra that lowering taxes is always the answer. Sometimes it is but not always.Bad calling stations are great to play against but you need to not only bang the bass drum of isolation but throw in your snare, tom toms and maybe even some cowbell as well.

[checkymcfold 0]

(It's nice to see this thread being used for something other than bad beats and varience, lately.)

some tard just hit 5 draws in a row against me hu and now i'm stuck a little. better?

[DinkDonk 1]

It bothers me faaaar more to lose money to good players than bad. I root for the fish to win as often as possible, because the money stays in circulation the longer they can convince themselves that they can win. I am really very much improved in terms of my mental makeup now, but that's always been something I've been fine with. The only thing that bothers me now is when I'm either getting outplayed or seemingly getting outplayed by good players and I can't find the correct adjustment. That is something that I could say "tilts" me.

[Dirtydutch 8]

Oh man, the strat discussion at my table right now is ****ing priceless. These two geniuses bought in for 2,500 BB each, and I think they're nutbarring, but they must lose their tits at their real limit, because between their play and their ideas of poker, they're just stunningly ignorant.

[Dirtydutch 8]

Far too many players do things because they've been taught that it's the right way to play without knowing why.

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

[checkymcfold 0]

It bothers me faaaar more to lose money to good players than bad. I root for the fish to win as often as possible, because the money stays in circulation the longer they can convince themselves that they can win. I am really very much improved in terms of my mental makeup now, but that's always been something I've been fine with. The only thing that bothers me now is when I'm either getting outplayed or seemingly getting outplayed by good players and I can't find the correct adjustment. That is something that I could say "tilts" me.

this may become an issue when i move up :)what tends to bother me most (and it happens a lot) is when super terrible players sustain long winning runs against me, thus landing them a spot on my "list."it doesn't really bug me when i get beat by a semi-good player, comparatively speaking.

[Dirtydutch 8]

I'm really happy with the way I bounced back from last night. I'm still running really bad, but I think my concentration is great right now (minus talking to to fags).

[DinkDonk 1]

Yesterday:Today:Robusto.Holla.(I didn't actually play until I was unstuck on purpose, and was surprised to find that I had gotten back to even on both days once I quit.)

[DinkDonk 1]

this may become an issue when i move up :)what tends to bother me most (and it happens a lot) is when super terrible players sustain long winning runs against me, thus landing them a spot on my "list."it doesn't really bug me when i get beat by a semi-good player, comparatively speaking.

Just take complete joy in the fact that the big bets you lose are going to come back into circulation in the very games you play when you lose to those guys. When you lose them to me they just buy me a sexy new pair of 7 for all mankind jeans.

[Dirtydutch 8]

Are those swings at 30/60 or 15/30 or what? Render Graph in Big Bets ftw.

[checkymcfold 0]

Just take complete joy in the fact that the big bets you lose are going to come back into circulation in the very games you play when you lose to those guys. When you lose them to me they just buy me a sexy new pair of 7 for all mankind jeans.

DIESEL NOT 7 OMG(and i was mostly referring to the times that you just watch your money get spread around the table right after you get doinked around. you know, like now, after the 80/60/5 guy to my right just two outed me b2b )

[navybuttons 15]

Are those swings at 30/60 or 15/30 or what? Render Graph in Big Bets ftw.

30/60 w/o a doubt.

[Dirtydutch 8]

30/60 w/o a doubt.

I figured, but with the level of aggression in even a 15/30, I didn't think it was impossible.

[checkymcfold 0]

my day:1. run goot, then find a tard who likes playing HU and start off +50BB in my first 45 hands.2. run LOL-terrible against two hit and running douchetards. back to even.3. tables fill up. miss a lot of draws, down to -70BB.4. don't get dealt any draws to miss. continue to play significantly better than inbred monkeys. back to even.5. play a guy HU who wins 19/20 hands, 10 of which i made top pair or better. fortunately, he never raises and i did't lose much, considering. unfortunately, he hit and ran me for 35BB.and now it's the time of night where i get no action for an hour, get bored, and quit, lol.

[DinkDonk 1]

Are those swings at 30/60 or 15/30 or what? Render Graph in Big Bets ftw.

A mix of everything from 10/20-50/100. I'll find a BB graph. It's probably not that bad in BB. I'm just getting used to the 50 game, so the money amounts feel large when I look back on them.Edit- My PokerGrapher is being annoying, but the low-points were 72 BB and 102 BB and I finished ahead 4.8 BB. Fairly normal swings in somewhat amusing patterns.

[DinkDonk 1]

DIESEL NOT 7 OMG

Meh I could go either way and throw in some True Religion as well, but honestly my favorite pair of jeans is some Levi's red tabs I got for $40.

[DinkDonk 1]

When you lease a new apartment as a professional poker player, how do you go about explaining this to the landlord? Do we not mention it? What do we say if asked directly? Does it change if there is a housing application? I am paying the entire lease up front if it makes a difference.Any advice?

[checkymcfold 0]

When you lease a new apartment as a professional poker player, how do you go about explaining this to the landlord? Do we not mention it? What do we say if asked directly? Does it change if there is a housing application? I am paying the entire lease up front if it makes a difference.Any advice?

"self employed on teh intarwebz"