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Wait, you think he's folding an A?
what else is he bet/folding that flop with?a bluff? if he wants to put bets into the pot with a pair betting into me on that board after a cap is not the way to go. what do you think he did that with?
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what else is he bet/folding that flop with?a bluff? if he wants to put bets into the pot with a pair betting into me on that board after a cap is not the way to go. what do you think he did that with?
On AAK? I don't think he's EVER folding there. 77-QQ. KQ makes more sense than an Ace.
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On AAK? I don't think he's EVER folding there. 77-QQ. KQ makes more sense than an Ace.
it is stupid to bet/fold those hands there though, right? or am i dumb? maybe its good if i would fold a hand like tt or jj, but then he should be playing his higher pairs for value to go to showdown and bet/folding an other random things he might have.
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it is stupid to bet/fold those hands there though, right? or am i dumb? maybe its good if i would fold a hand like tt or jj, but then he should be playing his higher pairs for value to go to showdown and bet/folding an other random things he might have.
I wouldn't fold anything in my capping range on the flop, if I lead. If I capped with JJ, I'd peel and make you fire again on the turn. If I had KQ, I'm probably showing it down.
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Full Tilt Poker Game #8572341181: Table Willow (6 max) - $2/$4 - Limit Hold'em - 4:28:32 ET - 2008/10/20Seat 1: pls_river_me ($143)Seat 2: bababumm ($65)Seat 3: everwin ($196)Seat 4: playboy0407 ($40)Seat 5: AntonChigurh13 ($97.50)Seat 6: antistuff ($133)bababumm posts the small blind of $1everwin posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to antistuff [5h 6h]playboy0407 foldsAntonChigurh13 calls $2antistuff calls $2there are two tags at the table and three loose passives.
i very rarely do this kinda thing--only when pretty much everyone is very bad postflop.
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one more. this one is a brag.this guy is a slightly too tight tag and told me how dumb i am. Full Tilt Poker Game #8572350139: Table Willow (6 max) - $2/$4 - Limit Hold'em - 4:30:08 ET - 2008/10/20Seat 1: pls_river_me ($146)Seat 2: bababumm ($66)Seat 3: everwin ($193)Seat 4: playboy0407 ($38)Seat 5: AntonChigurh13 ($100.50)Seat 6: antistuff ($131)playboy0407 posts the small blind of $1AntonChigurh13 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #3*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to antistuff [Ac Ah]antistuff raises to $4pls_river_me raises to $6bababumm foldseverwin foldsplayboy0407 foldsAntonChigurh13 foldsantistuff calls $2*** FLOP *** [6h 3d 5h]antistuff checkspls_river_me bets $2antistuff calls $2*** TURN *** [6h 3d 5h] [9c]antistuff checkspls_river_me bets $4antistuff raises to $8pls_river_me raises to $12antistuff raises to $16pls_river_me calls $4*** RIVER *** [6h 3d 5h 9c] [Th]antistuff bets $4pls_river_me calls $4*** SHOW DOWN ***antistuff shows [Ac Ah] a pair of Acespls_river_me mucksantistuff wins the pot ($57) with a pair of Aces*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $59 | Rake $2Board: [6h 3d 5h 9c Th]Seat 1: pls_river_me mucked [Ks Kc] - a pair of KingsSeat 2: bababumm didn't bet (folded)Seat 3: everwin (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 4: playboy0407 (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 5: AntonChigurh13 (big blind) folded before the FlopSeat 6: antistuff showed [Ac Ah] and won ($57) with a pair of
if you put him on a big hand here, raise the flop, imo. an extra 2 bucks and it looks less like a set to a good player.whether or not you cap pre has more to do with how you'd play stuff like 77+ or aq/ak than it does trapping on a specific aa hand, i think.
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whats do you guys think of this?the guy is like 27/21/1.5after this, this guy gets every pot capped preflop that he three bets me. im shocked that he did this. he had to have had an ace layed it down, right?Full Tilt Poker Game #8572327101: Table Willow (6 max) - $2/$4 - Limit Hold'em - 4:25:59 ET - 2008/10/20Seat 1: pls_river_me ($163)Seat 2: bababumm ($45)Seat 3: everwin ($198)Seat 4: playboy0407 ($46)Seat 5: AntonChigurh13 ($107.50)Seat 6: antistuff ($117)everwin posts the small blind of $1playboy0407 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to antistuff [Ac Qc]AntonChigurh13 calls $2antistuff raises to $4pls_river_me foldsbababumm foldseverwin raises to $6playboy0407 foldsAntonChigurh13 calls $4antistuff raises to $8everwin calls $2AntonChigurh13 calls $2*** FLOP *** [Kh Ah Ad]everwin bets $2AntonChigurh13 foldsantistuff raises to $4everwin foldsUncalled bet of $2 returned to antistuffantistuff mucksantistuff wins the pot ($29)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $30 | Rake $1Board: [Kh Ah Ad]Seat 1: pls_river_me didn't bet (folded)Seat 2: bababumm (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 3: everwin (small blind) folded on the FlopSeat 4: playboy0407 (big blind) folded before the FlopSeat 5: AntonChigurh13 folded on the FlopSeat 6: antistuff collected ($29), mucked
if you're capping aq here you're capping aa on the other hand fwiw :)i like raising the flop on this hand in isolation, and i like it even more if you bluffraise/fold to preflop 3bets on ace high flops occasionally. either way, he's not going much further here without an ace or king, so you may as well see what happens when you raise.
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stylistic thing or you think its wrong?
i don't really think anything is "wrong" at 6m, really, especially preflop (barring total retardation obv). i find myself playing all sorts of weird styles depending on the table texture. in some spots i'd raise, some i'd fold, but calling is probably the most rare of the three.
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if you're capping aq here you're capping aa on the other hand fwiw :)i like raising the flop on this hand in isolation, and i like it even more if you bluffraise/fold to preflop 3bets on ace high flops occasionally. either way, he's not going much further here without an ace or king, so you may as well see what happens when you raise.
one hand i am in position against two playerswith the aa hand i am oop against one player who is very aggressive. when im three bet oop by an aggressive player i will just call with my entire range.
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i dont know how to play hands like this. watching too many deuces cracked videos has me trying to play like death donkey.lets assume opponent is loose and agressive, like pt stats of maybe 40/15/2 or something like that. FullTiltPoker Game #8572542287: Table Clark (6 max) - $3/$6 - Limit Hold'em - 5:06:39 ET - 2008/10/20Seat 1: Fishie604 ($470.50)Seat 2: dctrJ ($45.50)Seat 3: Crypo ($287.50)Seat 4: nam-nam1 ($60)Seat 5: FloppinTrips78 ($404)Seat 6: antistuff ($140.50)FloppinTrips78 posts the small blind of $1.50antistuff posts the big blind of $3The button is in seat #4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to antistuff [Ad 7d]Fishie604 foldsdctrJ raises to $6Crypo foldsnam-nam1 foldsFloppinTrips78 foldsantistuff calls $3*** FLOP *** [3c 2d Tc]antistuff checksdctrJ bets $3antistuff calls $3*** TURN *** [3c 2d Tc] [5c]antistuff checksdctrJ bets $6antistuff foldsUncalled bet of $6 returned to dctrJdctrJ mucksdctrJ wins the pot ($19.50)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $19.50 | Rake $0Board: [3c 2d Tc 5c]Seat 1: Fishie604 didn't bet (folded)Seat 2: dctrJ collected ($19.50), muckedSeat 3: Crypo didn't bet (folded)Seat 4: nam-nam1 (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 5: FloppinTrips78 (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 6: antistuff (big blind) folded on the Turn

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one hand i am in position against two playerswith the aa hand i am oop against one player who is very aggressive. when im three bet oop by an aggressive player i will just call with my entire range.
I'm with you, particularly if it's a fairly decent player. I always cap my capping hands multi-way, also...I wouldn't be just calling the AA in the three-way pot, either, so it's not an exploitable practice.
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i dont know how to play hands like this. watching too many deuces cracked videos has me trying to play like death donkey.lets assume opponent is loose and agressive, like pt stats of maybe 40/15/2 or something like that. FullTiltPoker Game #8572542287: Table Clark (6 max) - $3/$6 - Limit Hold'em - 5:06:39 ET - 2008/10/20Seat 1: Fishie604 ($470.50)Seat 2: dctrJ ($45.50)Seat 3: Crypo ($287.50)Seat 4: nam-nam1 ($60)Seat 5: FloppinTrips78 ($404)Seat 6: antistuff ($140.50)FloppinTrips78 posts the small blind of $1.50antistuff posts the big blind of $3The button is in seat #4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to antistuff [Ad 7d]Fishie604 foldsdctrJ raises to $6Crypo foldsnam-nam1 foldsFloppinTrips78 foldsantistuff calls $3*** FLOP *** [3c 2d Tc]antistuff checksdctrJ bets $3antistuff calls $3*** TURN *** [3c 2d Tc] [5c]antistuff checksdctrJ bets $6antistuff foldsUncalled bet of $6 returned to dctrJdctrJ mucksdctrJ wins the pot ($19.50)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $19.50 | Rake $0Board: [3c 2d Tc 5c]Seat 1: Fishie604 didn't bet (folded)Seat 2: dctrJ collected ($19.50), muckedSeat 3: Crypo didn't bet (folded)Seat 4: nam-nam1 (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 5: FloppinTrips78 (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 6: antistuff (big blind) folded on the Turn
I have no problem with this hand.
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one hand i am in position against two playerswith the aa hand i am oop against one player who is very aggressive. when im three bet oop by an aggressive player i will just call with my entire range.
i still think that this is overthinking things--keep in mind that people think "capping range" and have software that keeps track of that without being spot-specific. personally, i've stopped capping in literally all spots in order to retain a balanced range, but if you're going to cap with AQc, i still think you have to cap with AA in order to retain balance as your opponents will perceive it.against more sophisticated opponents, you can split up your spots like that, but i don't think it's a good approach at 2/4, because they aren't thinking along those lines.imo, of course.
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i dont know how to play hands like this. watching too many deuces cracked videos has me trying to play like death donkey.lets assume opponent is loose and agressive, like pt stats of maybe 40/15/2 or something like that. FullTiltPoker Game #8572542287: Table Clark (6 max) - $3/$6 - Limit Hold'em - 5:06:39 ET - 2008/10/20Seat 1: Fishie604 ($470.50)Seat 2: dctrJ ($45.50)Seat 3: Crypo ($287.50)Seat 4: nam-nam1 ($60)Seat 5: FloppinTrips78 ($404)Seat 6: antistuff ($140.50)FloppinTrips78 posts the small blind of $1.50antistuff posts the big blind of $3The button is in seat #4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to antistuff [Ad 7d]Fishie604 foldsdctrJ raises to $6Crypo foldsnam-nam1 foldsFloppinTrips78 foldsantistuff calls $3*** FLOP *** [3c 2d Tc]antistuff checksdctrJ bets $3antistuff calls $3*** TURN *** [3c 2d Tc] [5c]antistuff checksdctrJ bets $6antistuff foldsUncalled bet of $6 returned to dctrJdctrJ mucksdctrJ wins the pot ($19.50)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $19.50 | Rake $0Board: [3c 2d Tc 5c]Seat 1: Fishie604 didn't bet (folded)Seat 2: dctrJ collected ($19.50), muckedSeat 3: Crypo didn't bet (folded)Seat 4: nam-nam1 (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 5: FloppinTrips78 (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 6: antistuff (big blind) folded on the Turn
i play this hand the same. what if the 5 is offsuit?
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i still think that this is overthinking things--keep in mind that people think "capping range" and have software that keeps track of that without being spot-specific. personally, i've stopped capping in literally all spots in order to retain a balanced range, but if you're going to cap with AQc, i still think you have to cap with AA in order to retain balance as your opponents will perceive it.
I think you're wrong. Whether he knows it or not, you're still showing up with AA in 3-way capping pots proportionately as often as with your lesser capping hands. The balance is the same.
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I think you're wrong. Whether he knows it or not, you're still showing up with AA in 3-way capping pots proportionately as often as with your lesser capping hands. The balance is the same.
i'm pretty drunk right now, but this doesn't make sense to me. can you rephrase? if i understand you, you're not addressing what i am getting at, which is balancing your range AS PERCEIVED by your opponent, which means acting similarly in all spots where making a specific exception isn't more profitable longterm even if we unbalance our range (which it may be here if the villain is superLAG, but that's not what i'm talking about).
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OK, in the three-way pot you cap 100% of the time with AA and you cap 100% of the time with AQs. In the two-way pot you bet-call 100% of the time with AA as with AQs. So both hands are equally likely as combinatrically distributed (i.e. their chance of being dealt to you) whether you cap or not.If he says, "OK, he capped here, so he doesn't have AA," ignoring that it's a three-way pot, he's making a mistake against your range.Edit: I wrote this before your edit, but I think it still makes sense.

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OK, in the three-way pot you cap 100% of the time with AA and you cap 100% of the time with AQs. In the two-way pot you bet-call 100% of the time with AA as with AQs. So both hands are equally likely as combinatrically distributed (i.e. their chance of being dealt to you) whether you cap or not.If he say, "OK, he capped here, so he doesn't have AA," ignoring that it's a three-way pot, he's making a mistake against your range.
ah, ok. the way you put it sounds ok to me on some level, and although i'll need to revisit this sober tomorrow since neither side is really sitting right, it's still not quite what i'm getting at, i don't think.in terms of combinatorics, our range gets fux0red when we do two different things with the same hand in whatever is being analyzed by our opponents (or ourselves, since we're concerned presently with the set of situations that is going to be perceived by our opponents, but we're doing so in our own heads) as the same set of situations. now if our opponents and their softwarez are going to be thinking of 3 way pots and HU pots in a similar fashion, and we are concerned with balancing only insofar as balancing applies to their perception of our range, then we should use the same set of situations, yes?now this leads us to two possibilities, as far as i can tell:1. we could indeed intend to do two different things with the same hand, and thus include it in the ranges for two different actions that we take when we're 3bet preflop. but when we do that, we're taking out instances of offering 4 bets of action with bigger hands, and that lowers our 4bet % in PT3 or whatever also, which actually means that our range will appear stronger when we 4bet in all spots. this leads to a weird sort of situation where we're appearing stronger with what is actually a weaker range, but not weaker to the point where we gain a great deal of deception value. it seems to me that this is an overthinking type of situation where we're getting more money in with worse hands and less money in with good hands when there's little metagame value in so doing. i could be convinced otherwise, but that's how it seems to me now.2. we keep that set of situations together as our opponents and PT3 will, and make the simple decision to either cap with a wide range or flat with a wide range. this retains balance, which is more important in HU spots, but may lose some value in multiway pots if we choose to just flat everything. since, however, most of the spots in which we're 3bet are going to be HU, and when things are multiway, we will have the opportunity of manipulating postflop relative position in such a way that we can often make that value back based on flop texture (and even save bets when the flop sux0rz), i really think that flatting in all spots, multiway or not, is the best option if your opponents are paying a little bit of attention but not enough to distinguish between HU capping spots and 3way capping spots.there, i think that is a better explanation of what i mean.
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dinkdonk's preflop ranges in a thread where his screen name is posted. for anyone who doesn't know, dinkdonk plays a very serious limit for a very serious amount of money as his sole source of income against people who take the game very seriously and are willing to work hard to find the information they need to gain an edge.
i would strongly consider removing this. maybe that's just me. :club:
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