When Is Really Enough ?

[shortfuse69 0]

This is something I've been struggling with for all most 3 yrs , I really like playing poker, i've been playing since oct 2005 and was wondering should improve my game or should I quit poker, I just don't see the point anymore, I've read dozens of poker books , I been at it all most every day and I just don't see an improvement, and I really lost as to what I should do , I really love the game of poker but I don't want to lose my pants in the process .....anyways I am asking is it really worth all the trouble? can you really turn a profit from playing poker?

[RabidTortuga 0]

can you really turn a profit from playing poker?

Yes. It can be a profitable hobby, a very lucrative full time job, or anything in between. The fact remains that most poker players are long term losing players. If it's stopped being fun, or has gotten too expensive, quit.On the other hand, you probably don't really know what all the books are trying to tell you. Thus, poker forums...

[antistuff 0]

im saving up for a down payment on an apartment. please continue playing. you will get the hang of it eventually.

[breathweapon 0]

im saving up for a down payment on an apartment. please continue playing. you will get the hang of it eventually.

Translation: You're paying my rent

[Shark527 0]

Try playing something different entirely. Try to learn a completely new game. Learning other games will improve your overall understanding of poker in general. Trying to learn limit hold'em really made me learn the importance of patience and positon while omaha really helped to read board structure. Limit helped with math and odds while the omaha helped with my overall poker feel, somehow. I'm sure different games do will affect your mentality in different ways. Try playing a different game for a couple weeks and then go back to what you normally like to play.

[Flushgarden 0]

keep playing

[KoRnholio 2]

Not everyone is going to be a winner in poker all the time or over the long term. If you are still having fun playing, play whatever limits/losses are acceptable for you.Maybe that means playing with $20-50 at a time at the $0.01/$0.02 blinds games. Or start with $50 and play $1 tournaments. Tournaments are probably your best bet if you love poker, but are worried about losses. In tournaments you can't lose a lot due to tilting about bad beats (just your buyin), and hours of entertainment can be had for the price of one buyin.

[AimHigher 0]

This is something I've been struggling with for all most 3 yrs , I really like playing poker, i've been playing since oct 2005 and was wondering should improve my game or should I quit poker, I just don't see the point anymore, I've read dozens of poker books , I been at it all most every day and I just don't see an improvement, and I really lost as to what I should do , I really love the game of poker but I don't want to lose my pants in the process .....anyways I am asking is it really worth all the trouble? can you really turn a profit from playing poker?

I've only recently struggled my way through the barrier from losing player to winning micro player. The truth is that Poker is one of the deepest and most complex games out there, and that is what makes it so difficult to master. Here are a few general tips that might help you:1. Learning to play poker well is alot like getting an education. When reading a book, treat it like study material. Makes NOTES. Most of the concepts you will learn by reading a book can be summed up into simple point form. They are often cluttered with examples and analogies to help you understand. You will often have to sift through the analogies and examples and highlight/underline the key ideas they are trying to teach you. If you make simple notes, you can take those notes and have them handy when you play.I saw in a card runners video that there were four stages of learning:Stage 1 - Unconscious Incompetence - Meaning: I don't even know that I don't know how to do this.Stage 2 - Conscious Incompetence - Meaning: OK, I've realized I don't know what I'm doing.Stage 3 - Conscious Competence - Meaning: OK, I know how to do this.Stage 4 - Unconscious Competence - Meaning: I know how to do this without even thinking about it.The point is to learn as many good poker practices as you can, and then make them instinctive. You shouldn't have to think whether or not to raise AJ under the gun, you should just know.2. Read it more than once. If you are struggling with an idea, or it is not working for you at the tables, go back and reread the section of the book that addresses it.3. Don't play too high, it's perfectly acceptable to find the smallest game you can and learn to beat that before moving up. Just because you can afford to play $0.25/$0.50 doesn't mean you should. Whenever you are considering moving up, make sure you are sufficiently rolled for that game. In other words, if you have a $100 bank roll, don't play $1/2 or hop into a $88 SNG.4. Post in the strategy forums. There is such a wealth of free information and insight in them that it is not even funny. I don't know why anybody would pass up the opportunity to get feedback on their play from more experienced players.

[DelftDragons 0]

Just look at it like this.My brother likes fishing. So he buy's rodds, bait, fishing video's (No seriously), hooks and all the other crap you may need.So on averedge he spends x bucks a month on his hobby.So if you like poker. Set an X amount of bucks a month. Play until it runs out and deposite the X amount again next month. Like any hobby it will cost money, but instead of eating fish every now and again you could win the sunday millions sometime.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

Just look at it like this.My brother likes fishing. So he buy's rodds, bait, fishing video's (No seriously), hooks and all the other crap you may need.So on averedge he spends x bucks a month on his hobby.So if you like poker. Set an X amount of bucks a month. Play until it runs out and deposite the X amount again next month. Like any hobby it will cost money, but instead of eating fish every now and again you could win the sunday millions sometime.

Pretty good advise. If you are enjoying the game...and NOT losing your pants... what difference does it make? Becomming a professional and making a living JUST by playing poker is different. Your odds are about the same as a 'good' QB making it to the NFL and starting for the Packers.Sometimes I play for hours and end up +- $5.00But I had $5 worth of fun.I was a BJ player for years and did very well at it and now my BJ buddies make fun of me when they come by the poker room and see I've been sitting in there for 6 hours....and I'm up 50 bucks.Unlike BJ... in less than 20 minutes you can be up or down $500 ... So I guess if you are still enjoying the game...play in your limits and seek advise to improve your game.

[BudBundy 0]

If i were you i d give Pot Limit Omaha a try..

[TravisG 0]

Your odds are about the same as a 'good' QB making it to the NFL and starting for the Packers.

no. people should stop idealizing poker as a super-hard to master sport. in fact, poker is one of the easy things to become good in. the only thing people have to really master is discipline.

[ahosang 0]

If i were you i d give Pot Limit Omaha a try..

And you won't believe this, but the game selection is better, but there are less games of course. Don't think that the average PLO regular knows what the heck he is doing...

[breathweapon 0]

no. people should stop idealizing poker as a super-hard to master sport. in fact, poker is one of the easy things to become good in. the only thing people have to really master is discipline.

So true, more people have issues with their arrogance, patience and tilt than they do with their strategy and math.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

If i were you i d give Pot Limit Omaha a try..

Off topic... but everytime I see your AVI...I say "Multi-pass"

[DelftDragons 0]

no. people should stop idealizing poker as a super-hard to master sport. in fact, poker is one of the easy things to become good in. the only thing people have to really master is discipline.

I disagree. Poker takes 10min to learn, but a lifetime to master.Reality is that most players are not profitable. That's just because if you win, someone else looses. To win enough to life from a bunch of people need to loose.So most people should just view it as a hobby with a -EV in the long run.

[RabidTortuga 0]

To win enough to life from a bunch of people need to loose.

This is my new signature. Thanks.

[TravisG 0]

Poker takes 10min to learn, but a lifetime to master.

yeah, but the thing is, you don't need to master poker to be a profitable player. another thing is, you don't even need to be really good. you only need to be a little bit above average if you find the right tables and if you have the disciplin to go through your downswings (and upswings) without changing your game too much (playing tilty). poker is one of the easy things to become good in because you don't have to train your body until it's perfectly shaped (like in any sport), you don't need to study algorithms and equations or books for years to get the maths of poker (like you would do if you were doing math stuff in a university/college)... at least you shouldn't need to. if the math behind poker is really so hard for you then, well... no i really won't say anything offending here. you never ever need to play perfect poker.greetings,travis

[Zach6668 513]

yeah, but the thing is, you don't need to master poker to be a profitable player. another thing is, you don't even need to be really good. you only need to be a little bit above average if you find the right tables and if you have the disciplin to go through your downswings (and upswings) without changing your game too much (playing tilty). poker is one of the easy things to become good in because you don't have to train your body until it's perfectly shaped (like in any sport), you don't need to study algorithms and equations or books for years to get the maths of poker (like you would do if you were doing math stuff in a university/college)... at least you shouldn't need to. if the math behind poker is really so hard for you then, well... no i really won't say anything offending here. you never ever need to play perfect poker.greetings,travis

And this is what I want the fishies to keep thinking (no disrespect intended towards you personally).The fact the everyone thinks being a long term winning poker player is so easy, is what makes people flock to this game, with the expectation of winning without working hard on their game.It's what pays for my big screen tv, my xbox 360, my car, etc.

[Jariso13 1]

yeah, but the thing is, you don't need to master poker to be a profitable player. another thing is, you don't even need to be really good. you only need to be a little bit above average if you find the right tables and if you have the disciplin to go through your downswings (and upswings) without changing your game too much (playing tilty). poker is one of the easy things to become good in because you don't have to train your body until it's perfectly shaped (like in any sport), you don't need to study algorithms and equations or books for years to get the maths of poker (like you would do if you were doing math stuff in a university/college)... at least you shouldn't need to. if the math behind poker is really so hard for you then, well... no i really won't say anything offending here. you never ever need to play perfect poker.greetings,travis

I actually feel that this is true to an extent...Well everything except the poker is one of the easy things to get good at part...lolIts possible to stink and be a winning player, the thing is you would just have to stick to playing against players who stink more, aka the lowest of limits. The key would be to have to discipline not to move up and play players who are better than you. You would only be able to do that if you actually do study and try to get better.

[AimHigher 0]

yeah, but the thing is, you don't need to master poker to be a profitable player. another thing is, you don't even need to be really good. you only need to be a little bit above average if you find the right tables and if you have the disciplin to go through your downswings (and upswings) without changing your game too much (playing tilty). poker is one of the easy things to become good in because you don't have to train your body until it's perfectly shaped (like in any sport), you don't need to study algorithms and equations or books for years to get the maths of poker (like you would do if you were doing math stuff in a university/college)... at least you shouldn't need to. if the math behind poker is really so hard for you then, well... no i really won't say anything offending here. you never ever need to play perfect poker.greetings,travis

This is a compelling argument, but I think a lot of it depends on what you want to accomplish in the game. If you want to play poker at a high level, then it requires just as much skill and intelligence as any other competitive game/sport. And even if you want to, you might not be blessed with the tools to do so. Someone who is 5'4 is never going to play in the NFL and someone with an IQ of 100 is never going to be an exceptional poker player.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Most poker players think they're better than they really are.Most poker players think that they beat a certain game, when if they kept records, they'd find that they are losing or breakeven players.Most poker players think that the game is easy and that they can read books and watch cardrunner videos and learn what to do.The fact is that most poker players just aren't very good and for one to dozens of varying reasons, most poker players will never be good enough to ever play the game and make money at it. Some players can't grasp the mathematical aspects of the game. Some people can't think beyond their own cards and some people are just not emotionally stable enough to get drawn out on without tilting off 15 buyins.Poker is not easy and it's not for everyone. If it were, then everyone would quit their jobs and play a game where you get to be your own boss and TP/MM and they'd never look back.You don't have to be the best player in the world to win at poker. You really only need to be better than the players that you're playing against in your game of choice. When it all comes down to it, you really can win at poker while still sucking as a poker player in general, but it just means that you're playing against people who are far worse than you. The thing is, you have to get better at some point because a lot of the people that you play with will probably improve and if you don't learn, pretty soon they'll be better than you and you'll be sitting in a game where you aren't better than anyone.

[dawgfan98 0]

Well said Knight. Also, if your heart is in it you will get better. If it's not you wont. You might have a streak where you can really poor your thoughts into poker- if so you should be able to see improvement, but if you are like most players you just don't have the time it requires to poor yourself into the game the way you need to in order to rocket to the top of the poker world. I know between my wife, kids, job, and home stuff I don't have the time I'd like to put into the game. But really what is more important? There is really no contest.

[Snake Plissken 0]

how is it possible to not be a winning player if you are so experienced? I can understand if you sick of playing micro stakes and you are playing above your BR. If you've read a dozen poker books, don't tell me you cant be a winning player at a full 0.10$-0.25$ ring game. You've probably have a stinking BR management. That's the only thing I can think off. Re-read something about BR management.

[Zach6668 513]

how is it possible to not be a winning player if you are so experienced? I can understand if you sick of playing micro stakes and you are playing above your BR. If you've read a dozen poker books, don't tell me you cant be a winning player at a full 0.10$-0.25$ ring game. You've probably have a stinking BR management. That's the only thing I can think off. Re-read something about BR management.

Because poker is not as easy as the average person thinks it is.Thankfully, it's this point, the fact that the average person thinks they can turn a profit, that keeps the guys who truly are winning players profitable, and keeps the fishies swimming to the game.