Something Bad Is Gonna Happen To Ap

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

That's a helluva post. You make a lot of good points. To answer your question - the first time i played poker was online, shortly after moneymaker won the ME in 03. I did see a few questionable hands/situations, as i'm sure everyone has playing OLP. But, my small amount of doubt was dashed when I played live for the first time (about 6 months after I started playing online) and saw many of the same things i'd seen online. Personally, i've never been the type to say ZOMG rigged etc but i do understand the doubt that was out there before all of this, and massive fuel is being added to the fire now. I can only speak for myself but i still don't see HOW the US government is going to shut OLP down for americans, let alone anyone. I haven't been able to depo through my bank acct for years now. I, along with many other americans, have gotten around it. Outside of making the poker sites deny access to americans (which they've tried to do and have been unsuccessful for the most part) or requiring US ISP's to block access (which would be very difficult) what else can they do?

First of all, they don't have to completely eliminate it to put the hurt on them. You say that you can't use your Bank Account. Well how many noobs and Fish are going to take the time to figure out how to get around the barrirers already in place? Pretty soon the only Americans playing are those that are willing and able to learn to run the maze - in other words EXPERIENCED players. Not the fish.Next is the part that many people just don't get. The Fed has an AMAZING amount of lattitude in what they can make Financial Institutions do - and how they can fine them. There is a current siutation with an International Bank where the Fed decided that they were not doing enough at the Branch Level to stop Money Laundering. Even though NO INDIVIDUAL TRANSACTIONS violated any regulations, the Fed concluded that the Branch Management should have caught the violations. In another case ABN AMRO (A Dutch Bank) was fined $80 Million by the US Federal Reserve for not instituting Anti Money Laundering programs."Regulators are requiring ABN AMRO to improve compliance and risk management systems to ensure full oversight and compliance with U.S. laws." So the US can and DOES regulate International Financial Institutions.All the Fed has to do is tell the Financial Services institutions that they need to catch all transactions associated with dollars that originate from or are on their way to On Line Gaming businesses or transaction providers, and it is gg for OL Gaming - and not just in The States

[RDog 0]

Going through another thread on there, I'm a little surprised after Tom's rant that TMay still played the 1k?

[loogie 115]

Stage #896592641 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $20 - 2007-09-12 21:19:36.012 (ET)Table: 13 (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealerSeat 8 - KOOLKEITH13 ($9940 in chips)Seat 9 - SCARFACE_79 ($10360 in chips)Seat 1 - BIGREDAK86 ($9091 in chips)Seat 2 - JOSIAHW ($7397 in chips)Seat 4 - POTR0AST ($9865 in chips)Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($24725 in chips)Seat 5 - POKERME420 ($10290 in chips)Seat 7 - DZ00NUTS ($8262 in chips)KOOLKEITH13 - Posts small blind $10SCARFACE_79 - Posts big blind $20*** POCKET CARDS ***Dealt to BIGREDAK86 [6d 9s] Dealt to JOSIAHW [3d Kc] Dealt to POTRIPPER [8d 4d] Dealt to POTR0AST [Ks 7c] Dealt to POKERME420 [Qs Qh] Dealt to DZ00NUTS [8h 7h] Dealt to KOOLKEITH13 [Kh As] Dealt to SCARFACE_79 [Jh Jc] BIGREDAK86 - FoldsJOSIAHW - FoldsPOTRIPPER - Raises $60 to $60POTR0AST - FoldsPOKERME420 - Calls $60DZ00NUTS - Calls $60KOOLKEITH13 - Raises $300 to $310SCARFACE_79 - Calls $290POTRIPPER - FoldsPOKERME420 - Calls $250DZ00NUTS - Calls $250*** FLOP *** [4c 3s 2c]KOOLKEITH13 - Bets $750SCARFACE_79 - FoldsPOKERME420 - Calls $750DZ00NUTS - Folds*** TURN *** [4c 3s 2c] [10c]KOOLKEITH13 - ChecksPOKERME420 - Bets $320KOOLKEITH13 - Calls $320*** RIVER *** [4c 3s 2c 10c] [7s]KOOLKEITH13 - ChecksPOKERME420 - ChecksPOKERME420 Collects $3440 from main potI haven't read the whole thread or even close to it, but this hand contradicts the argument. Has anyone mentioned this?EDIT - I suppose he could be trying to get the betting going in order to bust a player or two here.

[Fade2241 0]

First of all, they don't have to completely eliminate it to put the hurt on them. You say that you can't use your Bank Account. Well how many noobs and Fish are going to take the time to figure out how to get around the barrirers already in place? Pretty soon the only Americans playing are those that are willing and able to learn to run the maze - in other words EXPERIENCED players. Not the fish.Next is the part that many people just don't get. The Fed has an AMAZING amount of lattitude in what they can make Financial Institutions do - and how they can fine them. There is a current siutation with an International Bank where the Fed decided that they were not doing enough at the Branch Level to stop Money Laundering. Even though NO INDIVIDUAL TRANSACTIONS violated any regulations, the Fed concluded that the Branch Management should have caught the violations. In another case ABN AMRO (A Dutch Bank) was fined $80 Million by the US Federal Reserve for not instituting Anti Money Laundering programs."Regulators are requiring ABN AMRO to improve compliance and risk management systems to ensure full oversight and compliance with U.S. laws." So the US can and DOES regulate International Financial Institutions.All the Fed has to do is tell the Financial Services institutions that they need to catch all transactions associated with dollars that originate from or are on their way to On Line Gaming businesses or transaction providers, and it is gg for OL Gaming - and not just in The States

I didn't know all of that. ty for posting it. So let me ask you this, do you think the AP scandal is big enough for the american government to do that?!? And why haven't they already done that yet?

[RDog 0]

I haven't read the whole thread or even close to it, but this hand contradicts the argument. Has anyone mentioned this?EDIT - I suppose he could be trying to get the betting going in order to bust a player or two here.

Yeah, there a couple guesses in this thread about this hand but that is certainly one possibly explanation.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I didn't know all of that. ty for posting it. So let me ask you this, do you think the AP scandal is big enough for the american government to do that?!? And why haven't they already done that yet?

That is where you have me. This is where I may very well be "Chicken Little". My fear is that depending on election year politics and other factors, you just never know what will get legs. It is difficult to predict what side the B&M Casino lobby would take on the issue - on one hand they fear the lost revenue to their virtual competition. On the other hand they have surely benefitted from the "boom" as it spills gamers into the B&M world. I'd think that if they could get the US Gov't to let them they would want to either start their own Regulated virtual sites or team with existing providers. The problem they face is not curently playing on a level playing field with the virtual competition. Taxes/regulations, cost of entry, ongoing B&M overhead, physical cash management, live dealers all give a huge advantage to the virtual providers.If this scandal doesn't give the needed weight to incite the US Gov't into action, it should certainly serve as a wake-up call to the Industry to take QUICK proactive steps to organize into the next level of maturity for an industry that generates this sort of Cash and has the potential for even more.

[PMJackson21 0]

Going through another thread on there, I'm a little surprised after Tom's rant that TMay still played the 1k?

Ya, Tom played in my home game last night, and said Waco text messaged Tmay and wasn't too happy with him...I don't agree with his decision to play it at all either...

[Fade2241 0]

That is where you have me. This is where I may very well be "Chicken Little". My fear is that depending on election year politics and other factors, you just never know what will get legs. It is difficult to predict what side the B&M Casino lobby would take on the issue - on one hand they fear the lost revenue to their virtual competition. On the other hand they have surely benefitted from the "boom" as it spills gamers into the B&M world. I'd think that if they could get the US Gov't to let them they would want to either start their own Regulated virtual sites or team with existing providers. The problem they face is not curently playing on a level playing field with the virtual competition. Taxes/regulations, cost of entry, ongoing B&M overhead, physical cash management, live dealers all give a huge advantage to the virtual providers.If this scandal doesn't give the needed weight to incite the US Gov't into action, it should certainly serve as a wake-up call to the Industry to take QUICK proactive steps to organize into the next level of maturity for an industry that generates this sort of Cash and has the potential for even more.

Yeah, this is a fasinating series of events. Ty for your responses. I'd agree the industry should get something together to refute this but I just don't see that happening. They are too busy counting our money..

[SpiderGuard 0]

Ya, Tom played in my home game last night, and said Waco text messaged Tmay and wasn't too happy with him...I don't agree with his decision to play it at all either...

This is the collective action problem involved, especially in something as individualistic as online poker. Look at Zach's posts - he takes a completely rational view of the situation when he says that he hopes all the forum readers pull their money out of AP so his games will become softer. This absolutely applies to the highest limits too - if most of the top tourney players boycott AP that means my ROI gets higher (well it would if I was any good at poker...but pretend that I am for the purposes of this post). Poker players are taught to seek out +EV situations at all times and under all circumstances. This sure seems like one to me, and I'm not at all surprised that people defected.

[Ouch-8s 4]

This is the collective action problem involved, especially in something as individualistic as online poker. Look at Zach's posts - he takes a completely rational view of the situation when he says that he hopes all the forum readers pull their money out of AP so his games will become softer. This absolutely applies to the highest limits too - if most of the top tourney players boycott AP that means my ROI gets higher (well it would if I was any good at poker...but pretend that I am for the purposes of this post). Poker players are taught to seek out +EV situations at all times and under all circumstances. This sure seems like one to me, and I'm not at all surprised that people defected.

this is basically what i meant with my comment about how the players' interest in the game has little to with fairness or equality or integrity.

[cubsfan44 0]

this is basically what i meant with my comment about how the players' interest in the game has little to with fairness or equality or integrity.

I agree with you here. We were arguing 2 completely different points. I was simply pointing out that a player ran regulating group would make sure that as much $$$ as possible stays circulating within OLP whereas a government ran regulating group would insure that as much money as posible goes into their pockets so to speak. Not really a mindblowing revelation by any means.

[Ouch-8s 4]

I agree with you here. We were arguing to completely different points. I was simply pointing out that a player ran regulating group would make sure that as much $$ as possible stays circulating within OLP whereas a government ran regulating group would insure that as much money as posible goes into their pockets so to speak. Not really a mindblowing revelation by any means.

yeah, agreed

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

This is completely off topic but if you click that link the last poster on the first page, macon mark has Marion Sauce picture in his/her avatar, or more specific the same pic that was attached to that poster here. Same person? Not that I care, it just caught my eye/

Yes. She posted there after she left here. Banged one of their top posters, Epistate, fell off the face of the earth. If you go to the NWP hall of fame, there's a thread called, "I banged the Sauce". Decent read.

[PMJackson21 0]

This is the collective action problem involved, especially in something as individualistic as online poker. Look at Zach's posts - he takes a completely rational view of the situation when he says that he hopes all the forum readers pull their money out of AP so his games will become softer. This absolutely applies to the highest limits too - if most of the top tourney players boycott AP that means my ROI gets higher (well it would if I was any good at poker...but pretend that I am for the purposes of this post). Poker players are taught to seek out +EV situations at all times and under all circumstances. This sure seems like one to me, and I'm not at all surprised that people defected.

For some, the '+ev" situation is not worth sacrificing their ethics. However, poker is not the most 'ethical' game to begin with obviously. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I obviously have friends who fall on both sides. Personally, I feel the right thing to do is no longer play at AP, at least until they come forward with a more honest statement regarding what happened, and they make some sort of reparation to the players that were fleeced out of their money. I don't begrudge anyone for doing otherwise though.Jeffbeesdat made a post on p5s arguing your points here, and he is someone I respect a great deal in the online poker world. I might not agree, but I'm not foolish enough to think my feelings apply to others.I never played on Absolute much anyway.

[Loismustdie 0]

Yes. She posted there after she left here. Banged one of their top posters, Epistate, fell off the face of the earth. If you go to the NWP hall of fame, there's a thread called, "I banged the Sauce". Decent read.

You're not above jerkin me gerkin, but lord knows I am not above being jerked, so I will happily go find this thread. Now, if you are jerkin, know that I enjoyed every moment. Edit: Sorry I doubted you. Haven't read then whole thing yet, but I will. It shows promise- like the 5th post starts with, "One thing about girls from Canada, they are all sluts"..and, my curiosity is officially piqued.

[Loismustdie 0]

For some, the '+ev" situation is not worth sacrificing their ethics. However, poker is not the most 'ethical' game to begin with obviously. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I obviously have friends who fall on both sides. Personally, I feel the right thing to do is no longer play at AP, at least until they come forward with a more honest statement regarding what happened, and they make some sort of reparation to the players that were fleeced out of their money. I don't begrudge anyone for doing otherwise though.Jeffbeesdat made a post on p5s arguing your points here, and he is someone I respect a great deal in the online poker world. I might not agree, but I'm not foolish enough to think my feelings apply to others.I never played on Absolute much anyway.

The problem,and one of the reasons I haven't posted a whole lot directly about this issue, is most of the posters here would have gladly taken advantage of this situation if they could have. I don't mean that as an indictment on them as people, we love a game where it pays to find an edge, whatever that edge may be, and this game we love, the online version, is unregulated. Even if you get caught, you just get caught- there are no laws. The scary thing is, and something I don't like to think about, if you are the person that gets caught in this wild wild west of poker, and you cost AP x amount of dollars, what happens to you? Are you found in a back alley somewhere, and somehow we find out about it, and even though AP never admits what happened we all "know" that they took care of business? Historically, gambling is dangerous and it is mob backed-now, I am not saying that it most definitely is mob backed but it very easily could be.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

You're not above jerkin me gerkin, but lord knows I am not above being jerked, so I will happily go find this thread. Now, if you are jerkin, know that I enjoyed every moment. Edit: Sorry I doubted you. Haven't read then whole thing yet, but I will. It shows promise- like the 5th post starts with, "One thing about girls from Canada, they are all sluts"..and, my curiosity is officially piqued.

Hate to say I told you so, all right! It's actually a pretty dull read, now that I flip through it..she doesn't post anywhere in it as a I recall and it's just pretty much a brief recap of how it went down.

[cwik 0]

Alright, some pretty crazy shit.I was just talking to a friend of mine who plays heavily at Absolute Poker (he would rather be left nameless) about the recent POTRIPPER scandal. He does not post/read any internet forums, and was unaware of the situation. After linking him to a couple of the summaries, he had some very interesting things to add. When I mentioned that people had linked Scott Tom, the former CEO, to the case, he immediately recognized the name, and said he knew the guy. He had sat at a table roughly 5-6 months ago, where a guy claimed to be Scott Tom, and wanted him to test the new AP 8.0 software. This guy seemed to know a lot about him (email, location, first name, deposit history), and even put $300 in my friends account to prove he was from AP (by credit adjustment, not deposit/transfer). He also emailed him the new software from this email address: stom@fiducix.com. Just to make sure my friend contacted AP support to see if this guy was legit. The email re received back might break this case wide open:Thank you for contacting us.We contacted our promotions department and they informed us that steamroller belongs to the Absolute Poker Staff. For this reason, what he offered you is in legit.Good luck at our tables.Thanks for playing at Absolute Poker! If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know. We are here for you!Sincerely,AaronTeam Absolute ~ Customer Support"To Continue to be the Best and Most Trusted"Support@AbsolutePoker.ComWe’re Here To Stay! All Players Welcome!Come and join the action this weekend with our 150k guaranteed on Saturday and 60k on Sunday! With more and bigger guaranteedtournaments, Absolute Poker is your place to play. See you at the tables whenever, wherever!This email directly links the Steamroller account directly to AP and Scott Tom. It leaves little question that the all the accounts that had been suspected to cheat in the cash games are connected. But does not answer how AP could have investigated these accounts and found nothing suspicious.

[cubsfan44 0]

Alright, some pretty crazy shit.I was just talking to a friend of mine who plays heavily at Absolute Poker (he would rather be left nameless) about the recent POTRIPPER scandal. He does not post/read any internet forums, and was unaware of the situation. After linking him to a couple of the summaries, he had some very interesting things to add. When I mentioned that people had linked Scott Tom, the former CEO, to the case, he immediately recognized the name, and said he knew the guy. He had sat at a table roughly 5-6 months ago, where a guy claimed to be Scott Tom, and wanted him to test the new AP 8.0 software. This guy seemed to know a lot about him (email, location, first name, deposit history), and even put $300 in my friends account to prove he was from AP (by credit adjustment, not deposit/transfer). He also emailed him the new software from this email address: stom@fiducix.com. Just to make sure my friend contacted AP support to see if this guy was legit. The email re received back might break this case wide open:Thank you for contacting us.We contacted our promotions department and they informed us that steamroller belongs to the Absolute Poker Staff. For this reason, what he offered you is in legit.Good luck at our tables.Thanks for playing at Absolute Poker! If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know. We are here for you!Sincerely,AaronTeam Absolute ~ Customer Support"To Continue to be the Best and Most Trusted"Support@AbsolutePoker.ComWe’re Here To Stay! All Players Welcome!Come and join the action this weekend with our 150k guaranteed on Saturday and 60k on Sunday! With more and bigger guaranteedtournaments, Absolute Poker is your place to play. See you at the tables whenever, wherever!This email directly links the Steamroller account directly to AP and Scott Tom. It leaves little question that the all the accounts that had been suspected to cheat in the cash games are connected. But does not answer how AP could have investigated these accounts and found nothing suspicious.

Is this cross posted or is this info actually from you cwik?

[PMJackson21 0]

This email directly links the Steamroller account directly to AP and Scott Tom. It leaves little question that the all the accounts that had been suspected to cheat in the cash games are connected. But does not answer how AP could have investigated these accounts and found nothing suspicious.

You should post this on p5s and 2+2.

[chgocubs99 0]

I believe you, but how can anyone be sure that e mail had "steamroller" in there originally and it wasn't just pasted in there?

[cubsfan44 0]

90 User(s) are reading this topic (78 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)11 Members: cubsfan44, Chicago99, Alex916F, Pot Odds RAC, DoinSublime, Whalers2005, uncooper, JoeyFinngars, Clay Aiken, Loismustdie, Waffles2003Anticipation

[SpiderGuard 0]

90 User(s) are reading this topic (78 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)11 Members: cubsfan44, Chicago99, Alex916F, Pot Odds RAC, DoinSublime, Whalers2005, uncooper, JoeyFinngars, Clay Aiken, Loismustdie, Waffles2003Anticipation

Posting since 6:41 pm....

[cwik 0]

Is this cross posted or is this info actually from you cwik?

From me, feel free to cross post this. This is 100% accurate.

[Fade2241 0]

From me, feel free to cross post this. This is 100% accurate.

You should prob go and post this dude, that's huge.