My Wsop Main Event Bust Out Hand

[dbrent2 0]

I called and the villain looked at me like 'oh ****'. That instantly raised my hopes, but I'm sure he was just fearful of KQ or AQ because:Villain had QhJh.I wasn't even greedy and I only asked for the board to pair rather then a 9, but obviously the poker gods heard 'pair his kicker', not 'pair the board plzzzzzzzzzzzzz'. :)I think the fact that he fills up on the turn means he slows down if I check again. He has nothing to fear from the draws now, and doesn't want to lose me. So, if I take the check-call route and he slows down, I lose only a portion. Obviously I have no way of telling how he would play it, but as always you can make assumptions. So, check-call prob leads to losing a 1/3rd of my stack, which obv would have sucked, but much better then the alternative.I'm not really that torn about the call after his shove. My mind has been more focused on the alternative ways to play the hand on the flop, how it would have played out on the proceeding streets, and the like. I think someone a few pages back got the exact hand right, kudos. Good discussion all. Oh and the river was a black 6. I wish I had the awareness at that point to pay attention to whether or not it was the 6c (I think it was but Im not positive), because obviously the flush hitting on the river would have slowed me down as well. Heh I was too busy trying not to vomit and putting on a good face as I wished everyone luck.

PMJ, thanks for the hand and letting the discussions go on. I am sure it helped alot of people with their game, I know it has helped my game. FCP, glad to see some new ideas tossed about. I guess I am going to visit stat more often

[c0inn 0]

Thanks for sharing your story, ive been siting on the edge of my seat the past couple days waiting for the whole story. I agree with the way you played the hand, however i dont agree with the way the villiain played the hand... i dont think i would have pushed post flop.

[Gallo 1]

Ok, I'm putting in my 2cents (not worth much though).His range before the flop is ATC, after his shove I've put him on only a few hands here and I don't think he has a drawing hand given the way he played it.After reading this I put the villain on a small range of hands here with his insta-push: AA, KK, AQ, KQ maybe QJScenario 1:You've already mentioned that he overplayed AA and TT earlier on, so he could be doing the same here with AA and KK and maaaaaaaaaybe even JJ (Somehow I think this is what he had for some reason). I see him playing it like this only if he's a donk, which is what it seems he is.Scenario 2:Now, if he knows that you are a tight player, being the Villain I would probably rather call your check-raise than shove all in. By you C/R I now know that you have a hand and would rather hit my drawing hand by just calling because I know that you will not fold Trips here. Therefore given this situation he would have AQ or KQ and maybe QJ and he is protecting against a draw.

Can I get some partial credit?

[hblask 1]

I think someone a few pages back got the exact hand right, kudos.

Seeing as how every hand has been guessed except 72 offsuit, it seemed likely someone would get it right!Anyway, interesting discussion, thanks for POTW, probably POTM, contender for POTY. And thanks to OtD for the interesting input!

[mtdesmoines 3]

PMJ, thanks for the hand and letting the discussions go on. I am sure it helped alot of people with their game, I know it has helped my game. FCP, glad to see some new ideas tossed about. I guess I am going to visit stat more often

Strat posters would love to see strat discussions increase.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I called and the villain looked at me like 'oh ****'. That instantly raised my hopes, but I'm sure he was just fearful of KQ or AQ because: Villain had QhJh.

Would have ROYALLY sucked to have called him with AQ anyway. Or TTTQQ. Or QQQTT. Like I said, I'm not convinced the villain wasn't on a massive heater. Do you know where he finished? (and I KNOW I can look it up myself).

[hockey fan 0]

Do you know where he finished? (and I KNOW I can look it up myself).

157 $ 58,570 Daniel Elizondo...and yes, you could have!

[gmanshade 0]

PM, have you revealed what you opponent had?this is a very sick spot and it is hard to get away from the hand. I agree that the button could have a wide range, but it definitely must have gone through your head that if he has a Q it is unlikely he would raise from the button with Q2-Q8. on the other hand, if he was as strong as 1010 or Q10-AQ the only way he shoves is if he puts you on a Q. i don't see how you get away from this.EDIT: maybe he would push allin here with JcKc, open ended royal flush draw? with that hand he expects you will fold a 10 but will love for you to call, and knows that unless you somehow flopped a boat he's even money. he would possibly do this with AcKc or AcJc.EDIT2: given what we know about the player, i think there is 0% he has air here (as an aggro online player could possibly) and I also think it is very unlikely he has JJ,KK,AA, or a ten. I think he most likely either has QJ, QK, or JcKc. Q10 or 1010 he would have to be a moron to push allin.very tough spot

I think I deserve some partial cred as well. I didn't read most of this thread, and i narrowed it down to three hands the first of which is correct.i'm sorry you went bust PM. i can see how people can say fold here, and I don't think this is conclusive proof of anything, but can anyone here name even one time on TV that you've seen any pro lay a hand down in this situation? I think there are spots where it would be easier to fold KK or QQ preflop than to fold here. I honestly don't think Hellmuth, a master of big laydowns, could fold here. The only conceivable way would be if you are one of the chip leaders of the tournament and the allin is from one of the other chip leaders; even then i dont see how. It's not that it's impossible, but realistically unless your image is the nittyest of the nittyest and you are playing against a player that you are certain is aware of your image, i don't see how you could bring yourself to fold.

[dbrent2 0]

Quit beating your chest!

[zimmer4141 0]

Think about this guys:Does PMJ's nitty image make villain's shoving range tighter or looser than normal?

[PrtyPSux 0]

Think about this guys:Does PMJ's nitty image make villain's shoving range tighter or looser than normal?

good question...I'd say tighter for the avg wsop player...looser for a wpt regular like Juanda or something.

[gmanshade 0]

Think about this guys:Does PMJ's nitty image make villain's shoving range tighter or looser than normal?

i agree that this is relevant, but this is the problem in my mind:1) I can't imagine that he has AA or KK here2) he would have to be a moron to play Q10, QQ, or 1010 this way3) it is unlikely he would raise the button with Q2-Q84) given that this is the WSOP ME, there is a lot of bad play but I would guess that an amateur player with a good stack to work with--especially an older man in his 40s or 50s--is not likely to push allin without either a strong Q or possibly, though unlikely, the royal flush draw.EDIT: I don't see how he can fold the hand, but given the information provided I honestly find it hard to figure out a hand that he would have played this way that Q9 is beating.

[PMJackson21 0]

Think about this guys:Does PMJ's nitty image make villain's shoving range tighter or looser than normal?

Yeah, exactly...It depends on what level I think he is thinking on. Based on my knowledge of him prior, I thought it was looser and I still think it is. It also depends on how aware he is of table image, etc etc. It def has a ton of meta game aspects to it that make it interesting for debate. Heh I'd love to hear his take on it, but barring playing with him again, I don't see that happening.

[RDog 0]

Yeah, exactly...It depends on what level I think he is thinking on. Based on my knowledge of him prior, I thought it was looser and I still think it is. It also depends on how aware he is of table image, etc etc. It def has a ton of meta game aspects to it that make it interesting for debate. Heh I'd love to hear his take on it, but barring playing with him again, I don't see that happening.

Here comes another joke account in this thread.....aside from gmanshade......Mr Daniel Elizondo.

[PMJackson21 0]

i agree that this is relevant, but this is the problem in my mind:1) I can't imagine that he has AA or KK here2) he would have to be a moron to play Q10, QQ, or 1010 this way3) it is unlikely he would raise the button with Q2-Q84) given that this is the WSOP ME, there is a lot of bad play but I would guess that an amateur player with a good stack to work with--especially an older man in his 40s or 50s--is not likely to push allin with either a strong Q or possibly, though unlikely, the royal flush draw.

I think he would raise the button with any 2. I think that if he was dealt a 2, and a cut card, he would raise. That doesn't mean he wouldn't open fold Q7, but considering he raised almost every button, I doubt he had QJ+ every time.

[gmanshade 0]

Here comes another joke account in this thread.....aside from gmanshade......Mr Daniel Elizondo.

i've been a forum regular for two years, i'm really sick of people saying this. it honestly makes me more pissed off than when people say 'ban' because its like you're calling my existence into question.

[ffishh 0]

i've been an idiot on this forum for two years, i'm really sick of people saying this. it honestly makes me more pissed off than when people say 'ban' because its like you're calling my existence into question.

FTFY

[pezeveng 207]

low pocket pairs 3's 4's or 5's hit a 2 outter on the river for the full boat. Thats a great flop for low pockets so Iam thinking he shoves thinking you'll fold since he's bullied you a bit with the blinds.Thats my guess just don't tell me runner runner flush.

[pezeveng 207]

btw you made the right move by calling imo. A huge event like that you need to win plenty of coin flips plus a few suckouts. Leave it to fate at that point.

[Jeepster80125 0]

i've been an idiot on this forum since I famously posted that I got my girlfriend pro player energy drink for our anniversary that she naturally hated, and made a thread wondering why. I know I made a poll asking if I should leave and the results said to go, but I didn't really think you all would vote for me to go, because I'm delusional about my popularity here.

[Naismith 0]

Think about this guys:Does PMJ's nitty image make villain's shoving range tighter or looser than normal?

When I play in big tournies, if I know the nitty player considers me to be a thoughtful player, it loosens up what I'll push with since I know he knows that I know he has to have a big hand to raise, so that means I must have a really big hand to come back over the top.

[mase_gotsem 0]

<insert puke icon here> tuff hand like said he can make that raise every time and i doubt he has qj there often sik flop thnx for discussion all

[Dratj 0]

i agree that this is relevant, but this is the problem in my mind:2) he would have to be a moron to play Q10, QQ, or 1010 this way

Why do you and Hoosier think that QQ is a possibility? Five queens in the deck?

[CrazyJoe 0]

Why do you and Hoosier think that QQ is a possibility? Five queens in the deck?

hellloooooo McFly, it's the world series Main Event, jokers are wild.

[HoosierAlum 0]

Why do you and Hoosier think that QQ is a possibility? Five queens in the deck?

People never make typos.