Who Do You Agree With?

[XXEddie 0]

Do all u who play ring games do this? Using 25 NL as example... I would definetely reload below 20, but u suggest as soon as u are in the game and blinds pass (if u dont play) and are at 24.25 reload?

Another point Id like to make in response to this is you very rarely double up in a cash game, so when you fall that low, IF you do indeed double, I dont think you are gonna kick yourself for missing out on that extra 75 cents

[obizee 0]

2) I like to keep track of how much I am ahead/behind during my session, and topping off everytime I fall under makes that hard.

Poker tracker is good for this, if u are worried about that. I am thinking that I am dumb for not topping off now, after a few minutes of thinking, maybe because it is 5 am here i am quick to change mind, more thoughts from others?

[gfdsa146 0]

$20 was my bankroll, its all i had. But we're not talking bankroll management here, we're talking about approaches to poker (excluding bankroll management)!

[runthemover 39]

I kinda just quoted the posts I had a response to.

I do the opposite

lawl.If you think this has anything to do with differences between limit and no limit, you should quit poker.What you said is the equivalent of saying that I prefer $100 bills, so I just light my $20 bills on fire, and keep the $100s.

why are you sitting at 25NL with $6?

yep. but I know you understand that limit and no limit play completely different, and if you cant understand my point in that post, you need to go back to limit

[JesseW316 0]

Do all u who play ring games do this? Using 25 NL as example... I would definetely reload below 20, but u suggest as soon as u are in the game and blinds pass (if u dont play) and are at 24.25 reload?

I haven't played ring NL in awhile, but I've played PLO fairly recently and theory-wise, I think yes reloading after the blinds would be the correct play. Practically though, If you play a pot with 24.25 here I don't think you should kick yourself obv.

$20 was my bankroll, its all i had. But we're not talking bankroll management here, we're talking about approaches to poker (excluding bankroll management)!

Sorry, but we really can't ignore that. Stop playing 25NL if your BR is 20. Approach to poker-wise, you're fine. Your theory and opinion was miles ahead of your friend's. While I still think your exact play with the KK might not have been perfect, the theory behind if was waaaaay better than your friend's.

[Zach6668 513]

2 main reasons1) Im not exactly playing as deep as possible. Just trying to not play too shallow.2) I like to keep track of how much I am ahead/behind during my session, and topping off everytime I fall under makes that hard.You have a good point though. Maybe I should just keep track of it on a seperate sheet of paper. Or maybe I should just not care excatly where I am plus/minus wise....meh.

Just note the beggining and ending balances in your account/pocket before.You don't have to do it every time the blinds pass, but I mean, at 25 NL for example, $2.50 is a lot, I would reload quite often.

[antistuff 0]

all of you sillies hating on playing a short stack again.yes if you are a winner it can be more profitable (in terms of bb/100) to have your opponents covered . but so what? there are plenty of reasons why somebody might want to play short and there is nothing wrong with doing so. that this misconception is so ingrained amongst even good poker players just baffles me.

[XXEddie 0]

Just note the beggining and ending balances in your account/pocket before.You don't have to do it every time the blinds pass, but I mean, at 25 NL for example, $2.50 is a lot, I would reload quite often.

i multi-table a lot, an its usually one cash table and the rest are tourneys so if i take some buyins out Im gonna have to keep track of something either way

[Zach6668 513]

all of you sillies hating on playing a short stack again.yes if you are a winner it can be more profitable (in terms of bb/100) to have your opponents covered . but so what? there are plenty of reasons why somebody might want to play short and there is nothing wrong with doing so. that this misconception is so ingrained amongst even good poker players just baffles me.

Yeah, I have no problem with that. I was just saying, and I did state it in my initial reply, that if you are intending to play as deep as possible, you should reload before each hand.

i multi-table a lot, an its usually one cash table and the rest are tourneys so if i take some buyins out Im gonna have to keep track of something either way

Well, for one, you should definitely be using PokerTracker... that will help. Or, make a simple Excel sheet and take 2 seconds to note when you buy into a cash game or tournament.

[pokerinc 0]

Doesn't seem like either of you are right. Sure you want action w the hand, but a raise to .75 isn't a good play here. You're making the pot too sweet and giving the blinds a chance to get involved here, and at .10/.25 they almost definitely will.So at that point, if you have four people in the hand you're only about a 60% favorite over even 3 random hands, and you're probably closer to fifty percent to win considering the original UTG limper has to have something reasonable.Raise to at least 1.25 here. And since you're short, yeah, jamming is a better play than raising to .75. Unless you like reducing your big pairs to coinflip situations.Playing w/ more of a stack is way more optimal, but when you're super short, jam.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Clearly when you have a better hand you want as much money in the pot as possible. I don't see how any argument could be made against that. Whether a push or a small raise is the best way to achieve that depends on the opponent and the situation.

In this case, the hero wants a call, but that's not always a case for the best hand. Sometimes we prefer the villain to fold even when we're the favorite. E.g., there's a billion dollars in the pot and we bet $1. If the villain isn't drawing dead, we'd like him to fold.

[Craigdog 0]

as someone already said, if you drop that low REBUY OR LEAVE. I generally play 50nl and if I fell in or below the $30-$25 area i rebuy

despite my conflict with xxeddie on another thread today, I totally agree with the "Rebuy or Leave" move. His spelling has improved somewhat also!!! lol.

[mtdesmoines 3]

so i'm playing .10/.25 NLHE. I got $6 in front of me. There's a limper UTG who has me covered. I pick up KK on the button, folded around to me. I raise it to .75 hoping that the UTG limper will call me with whatever A-x he has. UTG had played super tight up until this point. He pushes all-in, I instacall (description of hand ends here) (results start here, don't read it if you don't want to) He had A-J, flops two pair on me and I lose.So my friend was watching the hand and he tells me that I shoulda just pushed all-in when action came around to me on the button. Why? so UTG hopefully folds his A-x and doesn't hit his ace. I disagree with him, saying that the point of my raise was to extract value from my KK. I think that pushing all-in would not be the optimal play, because I would get no more than his .25 if he was holding Ace-rag. Additionally, I told him that i should be encouraging, not discouraging, towards being called by an A-x because I'm a 2-to-1 favorite(i think) to win.After I tell him about me being a 2-to-1 favorite to win, he then starts off on people who play poker according to "the long run". He also says that the "think in the long run mentality" is a mentality that he takes advantage of, telling me about how he cracks AA with low suited connectors and beats KK and QQ with A-x. This is coming from a guy who went all-in preflop with JJ and told his opponent who revealed his A-x to fold. I don't think this mentality of "please don't call me with A-x so I don't have to suffer the pain of a bad beat" is +EV.So I tell him that I was willing to make a bet with him, up to $500, that if he were to ask any player that makes their living off of poker about whether or not pushing all-in on the button with KK with an UTG limper behind you is the optimal move, that he would say no. Now that I think about it, this was probably out of me being angry than anything else. Making this bet with him was a pure ego move, and was NOT the optimal play. So I'll give you an easy example to compare our approaches to Hold Em - Hero has a legitimate made hand and KNOWS his opponent is on a draw - I bet enough such that my opponent does not have odds to call, but I'm happy if he does call. - My friend overbets the pot or pushes all-in, and is unhappy if his opponent calls.If you agree with me, then please oh please come up with a way to help me correct his thinking.If you don't agree with me, then try to convince me to change my thinking or tell me where I'm wrong.If you don't agree with either of us, don't post. (sw)

I don't see the point, other than you should have just pushed yourself with $6.

[Royal_Tour 0]

of course in NL a bigger stack allows for a bigger win, but how does that make throwing away money better than reloading and playing correctly?

lawl.If you think this has anything to do with differences between limit and no limit, you should quit poker.What you said is the equivalent of saying that I prefer $100 bills, so I just light my $20 bills on fire, and keep the $100s.

are you retards serious?My post was an example of the type of mentality you need to play NL cash games. I know you should re-load and continue to play solid. My point i was making, is that if he values that little bit of money he has left in his stack and cant afford to re-load to the max, he has bigger problems at hand than just "Is he correct about kings or is his friend?"

[Royal_Tour 0]

all of you sillies hating on playing a short stack again.yes if you are a winner it can be more profitable (in terms of bb/100) to have your opponents covered . but so what? there are plenty of reasons why somebody might want to play short and there is nothing wrong with doing so. that this misconception is so ingrained amongst even good poker players just baffles me.

such as:Taking away your oppoents implied oddsand playing higher limits.thats it. and thats not enough to make it a better strategy than playing full.Yes, we all know that it can seem more profitable to take your 50NL roll and jump to 200NL but buy in short stacked. But what you seem to forget is that you dont always hit hands.Its very possible to go a entire session without seeing Aces or kings or queens. Also, once you do put in a raise, you have committed yourself. and you make your ability to get away from QQ on a A,K,K board that much more difficult.If you're idea is to play very TAG, and just shovel those bigs hands preflop, well now you have to come up with an alternative to play small PP's and Big A,x suited.Sure you could opt to ignore them and try and catch big PP's and push, but I'd challenge anyone to make that work for them.

[11 to 1 0]

If you don't agree with me, then try to convince me to change my thinking or tell me where I'm wrong.

Being "right" is highly over-rated.As for those pros who make a living at poker, do you really think if you get them in a room they will all say the same thing? They won't. There is no such thing as the right way to play poker, raise children, maintain your car, practice religion. Now, be glad you know something about how he plays for when you are at table together, vary your play on him so he can't anticipate you, and stop thinking people should be like or think like or anything else all the same way.Though I do wish everyone would stop tailgating....

[Zach6668 513]

are you retards serious?My post was an example of the type of mentality you need to play NL cash games. I know you should re-load and continue to play solid. My point i was making, is that if he values that little bit of money he has left in his stack and cant afford to re-load to the max, he has bigger problems at hand than just "Is he correct about kings or is his friend?"

I'm fully convinced that you understand absolutely nothing about poker.

[SpiderGuard 0]

Being "right" is highly over-rated.As for those pros who make a living at poker, do you really think if you get them in a room they will all say the same thing? They won't. There is no such thing as the right way to play poker, raise children, maintain your car, practice religion. Now, be glad you know something about how he plays for when you are at table together, vary your play on him so he can't anticipate you, and stop thinking people should be like or think like or anything else all the same way.Though I do wish everyone would stop tailgating....

While there is no one right way to do any of those things you said, there are plenty of wrong ways to do all of them.

[finztotheleft 0]

Your friend is playing scared. That's not a good way to maximize profits.

[James D 0]

So I'll give you an easy example to compare our approaches to Hold Em - Hero has a legitimate made hand and KNOWS his opponent is on a draw - I bet enough such that my opponent does not have odds to call, but I'm happy if he does call. - My friend overbets the pot or pushes all-in, and is unhappy if his opponent calls.If you agree with me, then please oh please come up with a way to help me correct his thinking.

You are correct, your friend is wrong. Like Balloon Guy said, you DON'T WANT to try to correct his thinking.. especially as you play regular home games with him.The only time when calling with slightly the wrong pot odds is correct, is when you are playing against someone who you know is a donator (cannot lay a hand down), and if you hit your draw, the implied odds are huge.

[Jordan 1]

how do these threads generate such discussion?it's pretty simple...in a cash game, in this scenario....you should be making a raise to about $1, because of the limper, otherwise .75/.85 would be fine.Raising to $1.25 would be fine as well. Shoving for $6, even if the buy-in is $25 and you're "short" isn't the best play. This isn't a tournament...you don't need to shove to steal the blinds/protect yourself from busting out of the donkament.Your friend sounds hopeless. Let him do what he wants. Ignorance is bliss.- Jordan