Why Is Bbfdts?

[hblask 1]

This post is basic information, probably something that the frequent posters and experienced players already know. But there are lots of lurkers in these groups who are inexperienced, or losing, or don't have a full grasp of the game. I personally am, relatively speaking, a beginner, with about a year and a half of experience (from barely knowing the rules to now). And this post is about something that FINALLY hit home to me in the last couple of months.We all hear "BBFIDTS" -- Bad beat forum is down the street. We hear "don't tell bad beat stories."The reasons, we hear, is because everyone has bad beats, so they are boring. They are part of the game. They are too negative. So why talk about something that is both common and boring?Those reasons are WAY off. We all talk about things that are negative and common and boring all the time. "Gawd, it's freezing out there..." "I was stuck in traffic for 45 minutes this morning..." "I have the worst cold in history..."The real reason you shouldn't talk about bad beats is because it is a slippery slope. It is the first step on the road to laziness. It is the first step to giving up responsibility for your play. Every time you say "I lost because someone sucked out...", you give yourself permission to stop thinking about the other 40 or 100 or 300 hands you played in that session. You give yourself permission to stop acknowledging the 10 or 20 little errors you made in that session that together cost you more than the one bad beat. You will have losing sessions due to bad beats. Sorry, that's a fact of life in poker. But if you are a losing player, or a break even player, it is not the bad beats that are hurting you. In fact, if you get your money in ahead and get a bad beat, those are the moments that are *helping* you, because in the long run, that's where profits come from.Before you talk about a bad beat ruining your day, take a look at every other hands that surrounds that hand. Did you make any mistakes? Did you miss winning a few bets here and there because of fear? Did you waste some bets "just to see" even though you figured you were beat? Did you get lazy and play on auto-pilot, not addressing the situation at hand?It took me a couple months of bleeding cash for this to really sink in, for me to see that my complaining about bad beats was highly correlated to my session losses. Finally, after a couple good scoldings from people who care, I went back and checked some hand histories. Bad beats are not a problem for a player who is playing correctly. No, not for me, not for you, not for anyone. Own your session, own your hand history, and leave the whining at home.Again, sorry if this is obvious to most players, but it wasn't all that obvious to me. I've never seen it stated quite like this, and I wish I had.

[NoSup4U 0]

Those reasons are WAY off. We all talk about things that are negative and common and boring all the time. "Gawd, it's freezing out there..." "I was stuck in traffic for 45 minutes this morning..." "I have the worst cold in history..."

yeah but nobody wants to hear about that stuff either! hahahahahah :)j/k Henry :)Mark

[hblask 1]

yeah but nobody wants to hear about that stuff either! hahahahahah :)j/k Henry :)Mark

You are correct about that, of course, but at least whining about your cold doesn't cause you to get sick more often!Besides, some of us are boring, and don't have exciting lives to talk about. So it's the mundane or nothing.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

actually, I thought the BBFIDTS because the place it was located turned into a co-op and it didn't have the credit or the salary to keep it where it was at.so, it moved DTSmeh

[Teck_72 0]

actually, I thought the BBFIDTS because the place it was located turned into a co-op and it didn't have the credit or the salary to keep it where it was at.so, it moved DTSmeh

Good EffortBad Dismount?

[Big Jono 0]

Good post OP, definitely made me think about my game a bit.

[BudBundy 0]

Definitely worth a read.

[simo_8ball 0]

Y'all suck. Quit complaining.

Okay.

[Donkey Destroyer 0]

Not to mention many of the bad beat stories start with something like "I was under the gun and raised to 6 times the big blind with 72off....." Many of the bad beat stories are about hands people should have folded preflop to begin with. "The tight guy in early postion made a big bet and I called with my A3off and flopped two pair. I went all in for 6000 into a 500 pot and the tight guy with AK and a monster stack called and sucked out a king on the river to beat my aces up". Yeah thats a horrible beat ya donkey.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

Good EffortBad Dismount?

Yeah, I certainly didn't stick it. But if anyone isn't happy with it, I'd be happy to stick it in them.When in doubt, go gay. It's kinda my thing.

[simo_8ball 0]

Not to mention many of the bad beat stories start with something like "I was under the gun and raised to 6 times the big blind with 72off....." Many of the bad beat stories are about hands people should have folded preflop to begin with. "The tight guy in early postion made a big bet and I called with my A3off and flopped two pair. I went all in for 6000 into a 500 pot and the tight guy with AK and a monster stack called and sucked out a king on the river to beat my aces up". Yeah thats a horrible beat ya donkey.

Actually, most bad beat stories begin with "I had aces and minraised..."

[Kestral123 0]

Actually, most bad beat stories begin with "I had aces and minraised..."

Quite of few of them also start with "well, I was UTG and raised it up with J7o to [insert: mix up my play, steal the blinds, take control of the table, or other stupid reason for raising UTG with J7o]."

[sixhands 0]

Quite of few of them also start with "well, I was UTG and raised it up with J7o to [insert: mix up my play, steal the blinds, take control of the table, or other stupid reason for raising UTG with J7o]."

what's your problem with raising UTG with J7o? You know some people do it to mix up their play, steal the blinds, take control of the table, or some other intelligent reason

[Gallo 1]

My bad beat stories usually start with "I had AA EP, raise to 4x BB, LP reraises, I go all in, he calls with J4sooted. Flop comes out J44 and I'm out in the first hand of an SNG." True story, just happened on Saturday (I think).

[simo_8ball 0]

My bad beat stories usually start with "I had AA EP, raise to 4x BB, LP reraises, I go all in, he calls with J4sooted. Flop comes out J44 and I'm out in the first hand of an SNG." True story, just happened on Saturday (I think).

You shouldn't overplay one pair in hold'em.

[Dogpatch 2]

Excellent post, hblask. A lot of bad beat stories can be examined and found to be a situation where the Hero didn't pay attention to the texture of the board and "let" someone draw out on them.

[Gallo 1]

You shouldn't overplay one pair in hold'em.

SW?This was all in preflop.

[simo_8ball 0]

SW?

Yeah.

[hblask 1]

Excellent post, hblask. A lot of bad beat stories can be examined and found to be a situation where the Hero didn't pay attention to the texture of the board and "let" someone draw out on them.

This is true, but the point of my post, which seems to be missed, has nothing to do with the bad beat itself. (I'm not picking on you, yours just happens to be the last post.)The bad beats are irrelevant. Paying attention to them is harmful. You are likely to find more mistakes and leaks in the hands that are NOT bad beats than in all the bad beats put together. The fact that this thread has turned into a discussion of how bad beats occur is exactly the error I've been making all this time -- focusing on the bad beats. Ignore them. They are the least of your problems. When all other leaks have been plugged, the bad beats will be a sideshow to all the money you are winning. I'm not saying I've fixed my other leaks. I'm not even saying I'm good. I'm saying that wasting a minute of your life thinking about a hand that involved any type of bad beat is harming your game overall. Go over those OTHER hands in your head, not the ones that attracted your attention because of the cruel injustice of the cards. Those OTHER hands and how you play them are the ones that matter. They are the ones that make for a winning player. I've spent of lot of time and energy on the "cruel injustice" hands, wondering how I can avoid them, how I can be the player that doesn't get bad beats, how life can be so unfair. I'm hoping I've turned the corner on that now to worry about the other hands that really matter.It doesn't matter if you played the bad beat hand correctly or incorrectly. Forget that one. The other 99% matter more.

[Viper_13 0]

This is true, but the point of my post, which seems to be missed, has nothing to do with the bad beat itself. (I'm not picking on you, yours just happens to be the last post.)The bad beats are irrelevant. Paying attention to them is harmful. You are likely to find more mistakes and leaks in the hands that are NOT bad beats than in all the bad beats put together. The fact that this thread has turned into a discussion of how bad beats occur is exactly the error I've been making all this time -- focusing on the bad beats. Ignore them. They are the least of your problems. When all other leaks have been plugged, the bad beats will be a sideshow to all the money you are winning. I'm not saying I've fixed my other leaks. I'm not even saying I'm good. I'm saying that wasting a minute of your life thinking about a hand that involved any type of bad beat is harming your game overall. Go over those OTHER hands in your head, not the ones that attracted your attention because of the cruel injustice of the cards. Those OTHER hands and how you play them are the ones that matter. They are the ones that make for a winning player. I've spent of lot of time and energy on the "cruel injustice" hands, wondering how I can avoid them, how I can be the player that doesn't get bad beats, how life can be so unfair. I'm hoping I've turned the corner on that now to worry about the other hands that really matter.It doesn't matter if you played the bad beat hand correctly or incorrectly. Forget that one. The other 99% matter more.

Since I'm currently running bad, and most off my losses are due to these "bad beats" (losing as a statistical favorite), I had a few problems with your original post, although most of it was good. This clarification with your last post is spot on.Now to the title of the post...I thought that the BBFIDTS because there is a forum for these stories and people are tired of these stories appearing in the general forum.

[hblask 1]

Since I'm currently running bad, and most off my losses are due to these "bad beats" (losing as a statistical favorite),

This is the dangerous thought I was warning against. Yes, it it true sometimes. Even the pros get into the state where no matter how well they play they lose because the cards are sometimes just plan bitches. But saying this is true at any given time is the slippery slope. Have you literally gone through your hand history hand by hand, asking if you could've gained a bet here, lost one less there? If yes and you still believe this statement is true, then keep up the good work. What I found myself doing is this:Day 1: Play well, winDay 2: Play well, bad beats, lose, oh well, part of the gameDay 3: Play ???, get some bad beats, lose, man am I unlucky....Day 4: Play ???, more bad beats, of course I'd win without those damn bad beatsDay 5 through Day Too Many: Play ???, of course I'd be winning without those bad beats every third handFinally after too long: Review hand history..... oh, even without the bad beats I'd be losing... in fact, because I'm playing so poorly, I'm actually laying an above average number of bad beats on others, and just remembering the ones where I lost....Hopefully from now on: Play my best, review hand history, look for avoidable mistakes, fix those, I'm blind to bad beats... What bad beats? I only saw opponents making mistakes!

[Dogpatch 2]

This is true, but the point of my post, which seems to be missed, has nothing to do with the bad beat itself. (I'm not picking on you, yours just happens to be the last post.)post

I don't feel picked on. And I love your clarification there. In my post I was trying to say how a lot of bad beats aren't bad beats. They are a lapse in focus or some other mistake made by a player.Basically, I'm agreeing with your assessment that people use the term "bad beat" as catch-all for their mistakes.And the "look at bad beats as others' mistakes". Spot on. I flopped a boat, got my opponent to commit his stack and of course he rivers the miracle card. Everyone at the table talks about how brutal it is, and I say to them "Yes, it sucks... but I LOVE his call there."

[Gallo 1]

Day 1: Play well, winDay 2: Play well, bad beats, lose, oh well, part of the gameDay 3: Play ???, get some bad beats, lose, man am I unlucky....Day 4: Play ???, more bad beats, of course I'd win without those damn bad beatsDay 5 through Day Too Many: Play ???, of course I'd be winning without those bad beats every third handFinally after too long: Review hand history..... oh, even without the bad beats I'd be losing... in fact, because I'm playing so poorly, I'm actually laying an above average number of bad beats on others, and just remembering the ones where I lost....

QFT

[xzanos 0]

WTF??? move this crap to strat where no one will read it and thus not learn anything!!Great topic though. Well said.

[Merby 3]

The hand that probably cost me the most money wasn't a bad beat. It occurred while I was still *BRAND NEW* to the game, but it set me down the wrong path (i.e. led me to the wrong conclusion about long term profits). I wasn't even halfway through my first poker book (I had chosen to start with Play Poker Like the Pros for God knows what reason...) I have described the hand below, along with all my faulty reasoning, in as much detail as a new player such as myself would care to pick up on. I must caution you: what you are about to read is a rather uninteresting hand at a micro limit hold'em table replete with bad plays and unobservant players (especially myself). I have intentionally only included the details that (I would have felt) were relevant and omitted all information which (at the time) I considered superfluous. ===========================I was at a 3/6 limit hold'em table and pick up Q4 offsuit in mid position. Everyone calls around to me, so since I have a queen and am getting great pot odds, I decide to call (after all, it was the first face card I saw in 5 hands...) It is called around to someone who raises in late position (probably the button, so he's probably trying to steal the blinds). Well the big blind must have made the same observation that I did, because he repops it. Everyone calls to me, so although I'm pretty sure I am beat, I am getting great pot odds --and it's only $6 more on top of the $3 I already put in-- so I call. Some one else caps and since everyone calls, I do too.We end up seeing the flop ten handed (after the pre-flop action is capped!) I pair my 4 on the flop (I don't remember the other cards, but they don't matter because I now have a pair). Some one bets, and gets a few callers, so I raise with my pair. I think there was one more raise --I'm not sure, but why would it matter anyway? I'm already committed to this hand. Six of us make it to the turn.The turn is some other card, and since I became the aggressor on the flop, when it is bet into me, I raise. We get a few more folds, and only one caller (the turn bettor). The river card comes down (misses me again) but the pot is so big, I have to try to steal it (because I am no longer sure my pair of 4's are best...) So I semi-bluff bet $6 into the multi-hundred dollar pot, hoping to get a better hand to fold (or a worse hand to call...) My opponent makes a crying call with pocket deuces, and I take down a HUGE pot. The best part of it (aside from raking in the chips) was that another player starts lamenting how he folded pocket 6's when I raised the turn.Granted I made ONE mistake in the hand: I should have folded pre-flop when it first came around to me (after all, Q4 offsuit isn't THAT strong a hand: everyone knows that!) But once I made the first pre-flop call, I was forced by pot odds to call the remaining bets and raises pre-flop. Once I flopped a pair, it was my *AGGRESSIVE* and *TRICKY* play that helped me *EARN* that pot.===========================After that, I frequently tried to call garbage hands from bad positions, in the hopes that my post-flop blind aggression (i.e. maniac) would win the pots (did I mention that I was playing low LIMIT hold'em?). Here are some other things I "learned" from that hand:1) Q4 (suited or offsuit) was my favourite hand. It was a raising hand now.2) NEVER give up on a hand where you make a pair: it may be good enough to win the pot. What is more, if you play it aggressively, you stand a good chance of making the better hands fold and the worse hands call.3) Once you call any bet, you are forced by pot odds to call any subsequent raises on that street.I may have won over $200 on that one hand, but I know that the *lessons* I learned from it (and other similar hands where I sucked out) cost me many thousands of dollars during my poker development and set me back several months in my poker development.Nevertheless, whenever I had a losing session, I *knew* it was the bad beats that caused it, and not my *sophisticated* playing *style*. If I lost $200 in one night at the 3/6 LHE table, I knew it was the *bad beat* hand where my aces were cracked by J2-offsuit in a $40 pot (last hand of the night). How could it possibly be the 40 or so hands where I decided to see a flop with Q4, J6, A3, ... in the hopes of out-flopping my opponents (or, failing that, *outplaying* them after the flop with blind aggression)...Ahhh.. to be young and stupid again.