Wpt Anti Trust Lawsuit

[DevilSlide 0]

I've been seeing a few things here and there regarding the WPT Anti-Trust Lawsuit and the League of UN-extraordinary Gentlemen as I call them, (The 7 players who filed) surfacing recently. In magazines, on the web etc. I've never really commented on them prior to now. I saw an article recently written in a "nameless" poker magazine by one of the plantiff's and was appalled. The whining was (in shorthand) as follows: "As pro's we travel from tourney to tourney, buy our own plane tickets, pay for our own rooms, pay our own buy in's etc...to make a living playing poker. The WPT uses our image and likeness to their advantage, and we don't get any money for it. Why should we allow them to benefit from us, for free, when we're the reason that people watch the program to begin with."In essence, they want to be paid to be on TV. They feel that their getting "Jipped" for lack of a mature phrase. Blah blah blah blah.In true "Judge Judy" fashion, are you freakin' stupid! The WPT is the reason why every one of you players are so rich. You should thank them for upping your bankroll a few hundred thousand dollars or even millions a year. Now with regards to the 7 players who filed the lawsuit, I respect all their play, and just because they file such a stupid / selfless / GREEDY lawsuit, doesn't take away the fact that they are great pro players. But I think a lot of people have lost respect for them as individuals. Especially when the head of your "anti-trust club" is the Egotistical "Everyone needs to know that I'm a lawyer" Greg Raymer. This guy just digs himself deeper everytime he opens his mouth. He's a great poker player, but has diarreha of the mouth something serious. I respected him until I saw the post on this forum, and read some of his other verbal blunderings. I believe he is a bad rep for everyone else. I give credit where credit is due. Think of it this way. All you poker players out there who play in weekly home games, and take the monthly trip to a casino, and actually are a fairly good player. Imagine you build a bankroll big enough to buy into a WPT event, or even win a satellite. Let's say you do great, and wind up at the televised final table. You win some big cash, and decide to give poker a shot. Remember, you're still a nobody. Nobody knows who you are. Let's say you do it again, and now there is a buzz about you, people are wondering "Who is this nobody who made 2 final tables at WPT events?" You go from broke to financially stable, and your face is all over ESPN re-runs of the event. Are you going to say to yourself "This isn't fair! I should be getting paid to sit on my couch and see my face on TV." NO! You're going to be so incredibly grateful that this orginization took you out of your Honda, and put you in a new BMW. Now take that situation and apply it to someone who has millions in the bank, and who is basically just padding their account everytime they cash on the WPT circuit. Read the details about the lawsuit, and realize the greed. What ever happened to sitting at a poker table in a casino, seeing all the donkey's / fishes, and dead money, and licking your lips, saying to yourself "I'm gonna make some money today". Apply that to the rich nobody's who can afford to buy into an event, they're the same dead money, just MANY MANY MANY more of them then one table full. They're the reason why the WSOP main prize was $12M this year, VS $1M or $2M in the past. Same applies to the WPT. It's those people who watch YOU on TV, and say "I can do that" - when they obviously can't, buy in and lose to YOU. Thus, making you wealthier.I'm only 23 years old, and have no affiliation with Law, but I do know greed when I see it. Shame on you.

[darkrider88 0]

if i had a dime for every time i one of these pops up...good points though

[NoSup4U 0]

Cliff Notes for those who don't read the whole thing:Title: Daniel, please read this thread I'm about to suck up to you.Post: Daniel, I gave the 7 guys a funny name just like you did, I call them the 7 un-extraordinary gentleman. Isn't that funny? Also, I'm going to repeat a bunch of stuff that has been posted 100 times since this is my first post ever yay!Sorry for the flamage, I just couldn't resist today. Plus, I like those 7 guys. And Daniel too obv. But I think the whole back and forth is funny/sad.Mark

[fleung22 1]

I am offended by the Honda diss

[Porcupine 0]

Cliff Notes for those who don't read the whole thing:Title: Daniel, please read this thread I'm about to suck up to you.Post: Daniel, I gave the 7 guys a funny name just like you did, I call them the 7 un-extraordinary gentleman. Isn't that funny? Also, I'm going to repeat a bunch of stuff that has been posted 100 times since this is my first post ever yay!Sorry for the flamage, I just couldn't resist today. Plus, I like those 7 guys. And Daniel too obv. But I think the whole back and forth is funny/sad.

QFT

[Dogpatch 2]

Another point I'm sure that has been beaten into the ground... but do the players on the PGA tour get paid when their games are televised?You get sponsorship deals from being on tv, that's your tv pay.

[Lynbrook 0]

What I'm curious about is ESPN? Do the WPT differ from how ESPN handles it? I think a decent solution would be maybe giving everyone that made the final table 5K each or something? I just know if I was as rich as those guys nothing could keep me away from many WPT events.

[benpatt 0]

Id take a honda del sol over any bmw anyday.... what is this guy talking about?

[king_tanner 84]

Why is the poker magazine the OP mentioned need to be "nameless". Anyways the WPT lawsuit is sooooooo 3-4 months ago. We're on to new topics such as huggling and penises on backs.

[tobytobey 0]

Another point I'm sure that has been beaten into the ground... but do the players on the PGA tour get paid when their games are televised?You get sponsorship deals from being on tv, that's your tv pay.

I haven't thought of it in this way, but it makes perfect sense. The only thing, is that some players (read Tiger) get appearance fees for playing in some overseas event, but then again those arent PGA events.

[Scanner313 0]

I haven't thought of it in this way, but it makes perfect sense. The only thing, is that some players (read Tiger) get appearance fees for playing in some overseas event, but then again those arent PGA events.

I believe those "appearance fees" are paid by the event host, aren't they? They want to attract big sponsors and TV coverage so they pay the highest profile players to come and play, knowing the money will follow. I don't believe it is the TV networks who pay guys like Tiger, although I could be wrong. Of course, no pro is going to sit out of a major tourney in protest over TV money. I'm sure Tiger Woods doesn't mind that the TV networks are making money by broadcasting him winning the Masters. He'd be there playing for no "TV money" if it was televised to the Moon.I don't know about anyone else, but I have never said I wouldn't watch a WPT or WSOP event because there weren't enough big name players at the table. Sure, having the pros makes it more interesting, but it's not mandatory.

[WhatArunAA 0]

Mark you are probably my favorite poster on this site.. but when you rail me I take the most rediculous bad beats... so by my calculations you owe me a shade under 10k... payable via LivesWithMommy.. k thanks.

[Yoda 1]

Who is the chick in the Avatar?

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

Who is the chick in the Avatar?

Scarlett JohansonWhat lawsuit is this guy talking about?

[Dogpatch 2]

I haven't thought of it in this way, but it makes perfect sense. The only thing, is that some players (read Tiger) get appearance fees for playing in some overseas event, but then again those arent PGA events.

Right, you're talking about some small event that otherwise might not draw Tiger's attention. So they kick him a little extra. I wonder if charity events or other small tourneys do the same with poker pros?On this note, I'm gonna copyright my name and send a e-mail to FT support and tell them I want appearance fees. They are making money off of my play after all.

[Yoda 1]

Scarlett JohansonWhat lawsuit is this guy talking about?

Is it? She looks fffffine there. Damn.

[NoSup4U 0]

Mark you are probably my favorite poster on this site.. but when you rail me I take the most rediculous bad beats... so by my calculations you owe me a shade under 10k... payable via LivesWithMommy.. k thanks.

I jinxed you so bad that last time. I posted the little rail blurb, and Adam I think says: Oh, he's going to lose for sure now. You took those two beats within 5 minutes...So sick. Sorry man, I'm horrible luck unless its me playing. I was doublestacked at a table today, and another player who was doublestacked hit his 7 high straight gutshot on the turn when I hit my 9 high straight. He bet pot, I shoved mmmmm 3X time pot all in, and he insta called. Holla! Insta quad stacked for me :)Mark

[JaxxVain 0]

Another point I'm sure that has been beaten into the ground... but do the players on the PGA tour get paid when their games are televised?You get sponsorship deals from being on tv, that's your tv pay.

Kinda apples/oranges here.The prize money for PGA events comes from the sponsers and tv deals.Prize money in poker comes from the players.That is a huge and fundamental difference.

[silkyjonson 1]

Ummmm and you don't think the WPT is greedy? I dont even want to get into this again, stop kissing up to Daniel

[Dogpatch 2]

Kinda apples/oranges here.The prize money for PGA events comes from the sponsers and tv deals.Prize money in poker comes from the players.That is a huge and fundamental difference.

Yes, but how does that affect the players either way? PGA players see no money from the PGA. (aside from winnings) Why should WPT players see any money from the WPT? I don't see where who ponies up the prize money to make any difference.Hmmm, the more I think about it... I can see an issue maybe. Perhaps a small appearance fee for the final table wouldn't be out of the question. I would just like it to be fair and not biased towards anyone in particular. (the pros) What I mean there is if Joe Blow makes the final table, he should get the same money as Lederer or anybody else.

[DevilSlide 0]

Ooooh, that's right, we all have to have a different opinion than DN otherwise we're all kissing up to him. I forgot about that rule. Gimmie a break. Do you know how many posts I've read where DN made a statement, and some user agreed with him and was attacked for kissing up. Geez give it up. I said DN- read this! Because of the SHARED opinion. Why would I kiss up to someone I've never met / probably never will meet or personally know. I don't think DN will be at his dinner table tonight saying "Ya know there was this user DevilSlide who posted this terrific blog...." That's not what I was going for.

[DevilSlide 0]

Ooooh, that's right, we all have to have a different opinion than DN otherwise we're all kissing up to him. I forgot about that rule. Gimmie a break. Do you know how many posts I've read where DN made a statement, and some user agreed with him and was attacked for kissing up. Geez give it up. I said DN- read this! Because of the SHARED opinion. Why would I kiss up to someone I've never met / probably never will meet or personally know. I don't think DN will be at his dinner table tonight saying "Ya know there was this user DevilSlide who posted this terrific blog...." That's not what I was going for.

[silkyjonson 1]

Yes, but how does that affect the players either way? PGA players see no money from the PGA. (aside from winnings) Why should WPT players see any money from the WPT? I don't see where who ponies up the prize money to make any difference.Hmmm, the more I think about it... I can see an issue maybe. Perhaps a small appearance fee for the final table wouldn't be out of the question. I would just like it to be fair and not biased towards anyone in particular. (the pros) What I mean there is if Joe Blow makes the final table, he should get the same money as Lederer or anybody else.

you dont see a difference? I think the difference is pretty clear if your playin wpt tournaments and don't do well you are out a lot of money as you put up the 10k entry fee, if you are in the PGA you are not putting up the entry fee you are basically free rolling, so the players make money through the prize pool and endorsements, and PGA makes money through TV etc. Big difference IMO. And also lets not forget that one of the major points about the anti trust lawsuit is that they force the players to sign a release that could allow there image to be used for whatever the WPT likes, andif the players want to contine playing tournies (making a living as many were doing this before the WPT) they have to sign away their image.

[JaxxVain 0]

Yes, but how does that affect the players either way? PGA players see no money from the PGA. (aside from winnings) Why should WPT players see any money from the WPT? I don't see where who ponies up the prize money to make any difference.Hmmm, the more I think about it... I can see an issue maybe. Perhaps a small appearance fee for the final table wouldn't be out of the question. I would just like it to be fair and not biased towards anyone in particular. (the pros) What I mean there is if Joe Blow makes the final table, he should get the same money as Lederer or anybody else.

Maybe see an issue?WPT = players put up their own prize poolPGA = players are free-rolling

[Dogpatch 2]

you dont see a difference? I think the difference is pretty clear if your playin wpt tournaments and don't do well you are out a lot of money as you put up the 10k entry fee, if you are in the PGA you are not putting up the entry fee you are basically free rolling, so the players make money through the prize pool and endorsements, and PGA makes money through TV etc. Big difference IMO. And also lets not forget that one of the major points about the anti trust lawsuit is that they force the players to sign a release that could allow there image to be used for whatever the WPT likes, andif the players want to contine playing tournies (making a living as many were doing this before the WPT) they have to sign away their image.

If you read my whole post... at the end... I said I do see some issues. I could've just deleted what I wrote first, but I try to carry on as if I'm speaking. I think it lends more to the discussion. And yes, I was leaving out the fact of signing away their image. I definitely see a problem there. The way that's worded, the WPT could start using any player just like PS uses Moneymaker and Raymer. (but without paying them) I'm sure there would be an outcry if that happened.