Official Offseason Thread

[oldirtyharry 0]

[TMoneyBags 0]

holy smokes, 51.1?? and it was expected to be around 30??

[timwakefield 68]

officially $51.1 millionmy goodness

Yeah, they'll make it back with Japanese media coverage though. Apparently people in Japan are already anticipating Matsuzaka vs Matsui, and they expect a lot of Japanese reporters/media outlets to start traveling with the Sox the way they do with the Yankees.

[aadams_22 3]

extremely bad photoshop

[wsox8 10]

I wouldn't want my sox to spend 51.1 mill on him...

[timwakefield 68]

extremely bad photoshop

Bostondirtdogsedit: at least I thought so, now they have a different image

[greatwhite 0]

I wouldn't want my sox to spend 51.1 mill for the right to negotiate with him...

FYPThis guy will probablly be pretty good, but this is a ridiculous amount just to negotiate with him. If the Red Sox sign him they'll look like complete idiots for what they said during the Boston Massacre.

[MDXS 0]

I'm curious about how much of the posting fee gets kicked back to the Red Sox. If the negotiations hit a snag (and considering Boras is involved, they probably will), Seibu will be extremely motivated to get the deal done. Remember, if Matsuzaka doesn't sign, Seibu only gets their player back - no money comes over. Considering that they're having severe financial diffculties and that even 35 million would be double their payroll from last year, I can't imagine them not kicking any back.There is precedent for this. I believe that 9 of the 13 million posted by Seatte for Ichiro came back to the Mariners. I'm extremely excited by this move. Definitely giddy.

FYPThis guy will probablly be pretty good, but this is a ridiculous amount just to negotiate with him. If the Red Sox sign him they'll look like complete idiots for what they said during the Boston Massacre.

What, signing the best pitcher on the market for what could amount to below market value when all things are considered (once you put a price on having an influence in Asia) is looking like complete idiots? Yeah, makes perfect sense.

Bostondirtdogsedit: at least I thought so, now they have a different image

Man, I hate dirtdogs so much.

[thehidden 0]

Frank Thomas to Toronto. How about that for protection for Glaus and Vdub

[greatwhite 0]

I'm curious about how much of the posting fee gets kicked back to the Red Sox. If the negotiations hit a snag (and considering Boras is involved, they probably will), Seibu will be extremely motivated to get the deal done. Remember, if Matsuzaka doesn't sign, Seibu only gets their player back - no money comes over. Considering that they're having severe financial diffculties and that even 35 million would be double their payroll from last year, I can't imagine them not kicking any back.There is precedent for this. I believe that 9 of the 13 million posted by Seatte for Ichiro came back to the Mariners. I'm extremely excited by this move. Definitely giddy.What, signing the best pitcher on the market for what could amount to below market value when all things are considered (once you put a price on having an influence in Asia) is looking like complete idiots? Yeah, makes perfect sense. Man, I hate dirtdogs so much.

Sure...they will make some money, but how much? I'm sure that people will follow Matsuzaka and it will create revenue, but this is a large amount of money to overcome. I don't know how much sales in Japan have increased for Yankee or Mariner revenue, but maybe it's a lot.

Frank Thomas to Toronto. How about that for protection for Glaus and Vdub

They are still several moves away from competing.

[mrdannyg 274]

They are still several moves away from competing.

go on...we weren't exactly blown away by the red sox or yankees last year.

[TB17 0]

go on...we weren't exactly blown away by the red sox or yankees last year.

Don't worry if greatwhite says we won't compete, then that means we will.

[thehidden 0]

Sure...they will make some money, but how much? I'm sure that people will follow Matsuzaka and it will create revenue, but this is a large amount of money to overcome. I don't know how much sales in Japan have increased for Yankee or Mariner revenue, but maybe it's a lot.They are still several moves away from competing.

lol thanks cptn. ofcourse they are...what i was saying is that they haven't had a solid bat at DH since 92 93 with Molitor and Winfield, when they were protecting Carter, Olderud, Gruber. Very similar to the line up now, just Glaus offensivly>Gruber.they still need a short stop and a solid left handed arm that won't try to knock out the manager...oh ya and they need a manager! one that JP Ricciardi doesn't have his hand stuck up his ***

[TMoneyBags 0]

So redsox fans. Do you want to argue again that you are nothing like the Yankees and don't just use your big pocketbooks to get who you want?and what makes you think, MDXS, that the Lions would give some of the 51.1 million back? They have no obligation to, and they have really no incentive to.

[wsox8 10]

Big Hurt is close to signing w/ the Blue Jays. This could be interesting.

[greatwhite 0]

go on...we weren't exactly blown away by the red sox or yankees last year.

They were 10 games back of the Yankees last year. They are a decent team, but when compared to the Yankees and Red Sox they simply aren't on that same level. Their lineup is still mediocre and their pitching staff is decent.

[SBriand 4]

Tigers lost Jamie Walker to Baltimore but picked up Casey for another year!

[MDXS 0]

So redsox fans. Do you want to argue again that you are nothing like the Yankees and don't just use your big pocketbooks to get who you want?and what makes you think, MDXS, that the Lions would give some of the 51.1 million back? They have no obligation to, and they have really no incentive to.

There are similarities between the Sox and Yankees, but there's still a matter of scale to consider. The posting fee to Matsuzaka is fairly close to what the Yankees spent in luxury tax last year. I'm pretty sure that you could field a starting lineup and a pitcher from the Yankees last year whose salaries would be more than the Red Sox's entire team. Go through the Yankees' roster and count the All-Stars and potential/probable Hall of Famers. The Red Sox don't have that or the means to accomplish that. This is a problem when the Yankees are in your division and close geographically (losing consistently to people that you deal with on a regular basis sucks).In a league of have and have nots, the Red Sox are a have. No argument here. With the Matsuzaka posting, the comparison with the Yankees is more apt. Still though, I expect the Sox will come in under the luxury tax threshold again, while the Yankees sail right past it, keeping their streak intact.Here's why Seibu would kick money back: If we don't want to pay an extra ten million, they get squat and their financial problems continue. They're not obligated to kick back anything, but 40 million is better than 0 million.

Sure...they will make some money, but how much? I'm sure that people will follow Matsuzaka and it will create revenue, but this is a large amount of money to overcome. I don't know how much sales in Japan have increased for Yankee or Mariner revenue, but maybe it's a lot.

I have no idea how much. I doubt all of it will be overcome. Merchandise sales get split between the teams, so the effect will be marginal....maybe a couple of million. It's hard to sell more seats in a sold-out stadium, so little money will be made there. Three ways they can recoup include:1.) Establishing inroads in Asia. It won't bring in money directly, but it'll bring in talent. With the talent comes the money.2.) Making the playoffs. Playing in October can mean as little as 5 million and as much as 25 million to a team. 3.) Seibu kicks some back, which I don't see given much play in print. Considering that if Matsuzaka doesn't sign, that money is going to a Zito-type, the Sox "only" need to recoup 7-10 or so million a year so come out even. The Sox must think they can do this, or else they would not have been willing to be so aggressive.

[pockets 0]

They were 10 games back of the Yankees last year. They are a decent team, but when compared to the Yankees and Red Sox they simply aren't on that same level. Their lineup is still mediocre and their pitching staff is decent.

How are they not on the same level as the Red Sox? The Blue Jays finished ahead of them last year.

[mrdannyg 274]

How are they not on the same level as the Red Sox? The Blue Jays finished ahead of them last year.

i agree with greatwhite in that their team simply isn't on the same level as the others. i mean look at their rosters - its ridiculous. having said that, they've had unbelievable rosters for several years, and have often failed to beat teams with much weaker rosters.the jays lineup next year will be comparable to the red sox, we'll be defensively superior, and our pitching staff and bullpen only slightly worse (though the sox staff could be much better, depending on pickups).

[timwakefield 68]

the jays lineup next year will be comparable to the red sox, we'll be defensively superior, and our pitching staff and bullpen only slightly worse (though the sox staff could be much better, depending on pickups).

Are you sure? The Red Sox actually had one of the best defeinsive teams in the league last year. There could be some major changes, but if nothing huge happens we will have arguably the best defensive infield in the AL. Lowell/Gonzalez/Loretta or replacement/Youklis/Cora (backup).If Wily Mo takes over fulltime in RF however, our outfield will be 1/3 great and 2/3 slow and often embarassing.I'm also not sure that your lineup will be comparable. Does your 3-4-5 compare to Ortiz/Manny/Wily Mo?

[greatwhite 0]

How are they not on the same level as the Red Sox? The Blue Jays finished ahead of them last year.

The Red Sox got injured and gave up last year.

i agree with greatwhite in that their team simply isn't on the same level as the others. i mean look at their rosters - its ridiculous. having said that, they've had unbelievable rosters for several years, and have often failed to beat teams with much weaker rosters.the jays lineup next year will be comparable to the red sox, we'll be defensively superior, and our pitching staff and bullpen only slightly worse (though the sox staff could be much better, depending on pickups).

The Yankees have won 95 games + the past 6 years. Don't let their postseason failures take away from their regular season success. They've failed to beat teams with much weaker rosters during the postseason at times, but a lot of that has to do with who's hot and who's not. There's a lot of variance in baseball.

[InsanityCubed 0]

The Red Sox got injured and gave up last year.

Are you drunk? The Jays lost 2 of their top 3 starters for about half the year, and lost their breakout young OF for a while due to a freak injury. Maybe not as much talent as the Sox lost to injury, but still alot. How exactly is giving up on a season a reason that the Sox are better than the Jays?

[MDXS 0]

Are you sure? The Red Sox actually had one of the best defeinsive teams in the league last year. There could be some major changes, but if nothing huge happens we will have arguably the best defensive infield in the AL. Lowell/Gonzalez/Loretta or replacement/Youklis/Cora (backup).If Wily Mo takes over fulltime in RF however, our outfield will be 1/3 great and 2/3 slow and often embarassing.I'm also not sure that your lineup will be comparable. Does your 3-4-5 compare to Ortiz/Manny/Wily Mo?

The Sox were bottom of the barrell in defense....AGon, Lowell, and some slick fielding percentages nonwithstanding. Which third of our outfield would be great? Surely you don't mean Coco?

[timwakefield 68]

Which third of our outfield would be great? Surely you don't mean Coco?

Well he was hurt last year, but he showed how great he can be, no?