Re: Phil Ivey's Marketability

[jcpoker 0]

You want me to give you your opinion?

no i have my own opinion, i was just throwing it out there to be discussed by such a distinguished panel.

[speedz99 145]

24 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)14 Members: speedz99, Stu, jcpoker, vikingsfan879, cen, HomeRow, SAM_Hard8, Naked_Cowboy, DudeSurprise, RodReynolds, Dratj, magnus72, Royal_Tour, JewRukusCall me crazy, but I have a good feeling about Stu.

[ajs510 122]

Call me crazy, but I have a good feeling about Stu.

You really can't go wrong with a Stu. Steve and Barry will fuck you over, but Stu's a good shit.

[turd ferguson 1]

no i have my own opinion, i was just throwing it out there to be discussed by such a distinguished panel.

The better question is: Why would anybody care what Rich Belsky says anyway? Come on now, the guy's a fucking idiot, and he's bound to say something dumb in pretty much every video. Just expect it and move on.

24 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)14 Members: speedz99, Stu, jcpoker, vikingsfan879, cen, HomeRow, SAM_Hard8, Naked_Cowboy, DudeSurprise, RodReynolds, Dratj, magnus72, Royal_Tour, JewRukusCall me crazy, but I have a good feeling about Stu.

That's cause it's a Jew name.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Agreed. I think the reason Phil Ivey and Tiger Woods are very marketable has nothing to do with race. They are both considered the best in their respective proffession's (some could argue Phil is in the top group, Tiger is clearly the best). They are both young, handsome, public figures. And to go along with that, they both seem to be genuinely nice people...from a fan's perspective at least. Neither of them suffer from the Barry Bonds/Phil Hellmuth "greater than thou" syndrome.Perhaps I am naive to the fact that people, along with the corporations they run, look at race more than the factors I mentioned above. I'd like to think we are better than that as a nation.

Newsflesh, folks. Tiger Woods' market ablity has EVERYTHING to do with his race ( besides his utter dominence.) If he was white, he'd be just another great golfer, appealing to the same traditional golf fans ( IE White middle and upper class men).Tiger woods race allowed him to explode the popularity of golf to a non traditional auddoence ( IE minorites), people who never watched golf. Plus, the fact that he was basically the first great black golfer is an amazing story, and added a ton of publicity toward his early success. It's easy now to not think of Tiger's race because he's so, so great. But when he first hit the scene, his race was a HUGE story, and made his fame exponentially greater.This exsists for Ivey too. He's the best player in the world, and essentially the first and only reat black poker player (in the TY poker era). His marketablity is lower because he's a very quiet guy at the poker table. It was YEARS before I actually heard Ivey speak after I had heard of him. He, unlike many of his contempoaries ( hellmuth, DN) is completely focused on poker, and much less focused on his marketablity. It's not that "blacks are more martetable than whites" it's that blacks are a rarity in high levels of certiain activities, golf and poker being two of them, and as such, makes them extremely marketable. If poker and golh were as intregrated as say, football, race would be much more of a non issue.***edit*** I meant golf, not goth. But black goths would be a rarity too, so i suppose the same applies.

[The Czar 0]

Newsflesh, folks. Tiger Woods' market ablity has EVERYTHING to do with his race ( besides his utter dominence.) If he was white, he'd be just another great golfer, appealing to the same traditional golf fans ( IE White middle and upper class men).Tiger woods race allowed him to explode the popularity of golf to a non traditional auddoence ( IE minorites), people who never watched golf. Plus, the fact that he was basically the first great black golfer is an amazing story, and added a ton of publicity toward his early success. It's easy now to not think of Tiger's race because he's so, so great. But when he first hit the scene, his race was a HUGE story, and made his fame exponentially greater.This exsists for Ivey too. He's the best player in the world, and essentially the first and only reat black poker player (in the TY poker era). His marketablity is lower because he's a very quiet guy at the poker table. It was YEARS before I actually heard Ivey speak after I had heard of him. He, unlike many of his contempoaries ( hellmuth, DN) is completely focused on poker, and much less focused on his marketablity. It's not that "blacks are more martetable than whites" it's that blacks are a rarity in high levels of certiain activities, golf and poker being two of them, and as such, makes them extremely marketable. If poker and golh were as intregrated as say, football, race would be much more of a non issue.

Finally someone with some sense.

[FourFlusher 0]

Market value is demographic driven.The sponsers spend money to find out who is their likely market, (where is the money likely to come from?), and specifically target that audience.

[silkyjonson 1]

I agree with Turd's thread closing, but I must defend myself against an ignorant poster who referred to me as racist because I said Phil Ivey is more marketable because he is black. Here's the link to the previous conversation where Daniel Negreanu himself responded (and I quote):You've actually got it all completely backwards. The fact that Phil is young and black makes him 10 times more marketable than a white guy. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...black&st=40Just wanted to defend myself. I refuse to even mention the screen name of the moron. So yes, it is a fact. I'm guessing Daniel knows a little something about the business of poker endorsements.

I said it, go ahead and use my name I don't mind. And you did not specify marketability. If you would have said his best asset in terms of marketing then you would'nt have got the comment, but you said his best asset going for him. It's a forum and im sure your not proof reading what you said, but go back and read the post with out knowing what you mean and think what people would interpret from it.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Further more, I think Ivey's race was a great asset to him as he was going up in the ranks, w/r/t white poker players. I can't speak for other races perception of black people, but middle aged white people tend to have a rather strong dose of racism, and disrespect for black people, as people and poker players. I've seen time and time again white, middle aged rocks giving other races ( mostly Azn, where I live) much more action than they otherwise would. A great black player could take advantage of white player's perception of black people as poker players, and getive them an extra lil owning. I think the same would be true of lots of minorites, like flamboyantly gay poker players, women poker players, ect. When my roomate was in vegas, he said there was a Hawaiian player, who got CRAZY action from the white players, even though he was an absolute rock tight player, and there was no other explaination, other that racial profling of him as a "crazy azn" by the stupid white players at the table. Taking advatage of white preducie woudl be an excellent edge for a minority player.

[mrdannyg 274]

24 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)14 Members: speedz99, Stu, jcpoker, vikingsfan879, cen, HomeRow, SAM_Hard8, Naked_Cowboy, DudeSurprise, RodReynolds, Dratj, magnus72, Royal_Tour, JewRukusCall me crazy, but I have a good feeling about Stu.

I had a better feeling about JewRukus

Newsflesh, folks. Tiger Woods' market ablity has EVERYTHING to do with his race ( besides his utter dominence.) If he was white, he'd be just another great golfer, appealing to the same traditional golf fans ( IE White middle and upper class men).Tiger woods race allowed him to explode the popularity of golf to a non traditional auddoence ( IE minorites), people who never watched golf. Plus, the fact that he was basically the first great black golfer is an amazing story, and added a ton of publicity toward his early success. It's easy now to not think of Tiger's race because he's so, so great. But when he first hit the scene, his race was a HUGE story, and made his fame exponentially greater.This exsists for Ivey too. He's the best player in the world, and essentially the first and only reat black poker player (in the TY poker era). His marketablity is lower because he's a very quiet guy at the poker table. It was YEARS before I actually heard Ivey speak after I had heard of him. He, unlike many of his contempoaries ( hellmuth, DN) is completely focused on poker, and much less focused on his marketablity. It's not that "blacks are more martetable than whites" it's that blacks are a rarity in high levels of certiain activities, golf and poker being two of them, and as such, makes them extremely marketable. If poker and golh were as intregrated as say, football, race would be much more of a non issue.***edit*** I meant golf, not goth. But black goths would be a rarity too, so i suppose the same applies.

I agree, though I don't think this at all changes my argument about the situation if he wasn't the best in the sport.If you were to graph the marketability of an athlete by race, a white person would be almost linear, whereas a minority's marketability would be concave.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I had a better feeling about JewRukusI agree, though I don't think this at all changes my argument about the situation if he wasn't the best in the sport.If you were to graph the marketability of an athlete by race, a white person would be almost linear, whereas a minority's marketability would be concave.

Oh yes, if Woods wasn't the best in the world, his marketabliy would be much less. Ultimately ,people love to root for winners, the best. This makes someone like Micheal Jordan, or Woods "colorless" w/r/t the great white majority of consumers. But woods race made him much more famous than he would have been otherwise, because, i mean, most people in the general public could give fuk all about golf. But a great black golfer is a huge news story, and opens up the marketing of the game to way beyond it's traditional fan base.I think they same would be true of the marketablity of a great white (american) heavy weight boxer. I think that would be insanely marketable, since it would be such a rarity in the sport. BUt he would have to be truely great, not just some hack boxer.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Good one. I recently heard a similar joke from a friend (also black).This is how black people drive- :leans back in seat with one hand on the wheel:This is how white people drive- :sits up straight with hands at ten and two o'clock:Wait a minute...

LMAOIts so true, white people are so lame!i heard this from my friend who is native americanWhy did the indian cross the road??To pass out in the other ditch.hii ohhh.. He also told me this oneWhy did god give seagulls wings??to beat the indians to the dump.

[The Czar 0]

I said it, go ahead and use my name I don't mind. And you did not specify marketability. If you would have said his best asset in terms of marketing then you would'nt have got the comment, but you said his best asset going for him. It's a forum and im sure your not proof reading what you said, but go back and read the post with out knowing what you mean and think what people would interpret from it.

I see. I was trying to refer to posts above me, but I suppose if you take that post as a stand alone, it could be misinterpreted. No hard feelings.

[stevedar 0]

Let it be stated I didn't anything besides the first page so if I'm off topic by now too bad.Being black makes you MORE marketable. However, advertisers would rather not for the most part be linked with a black person. This is one aspect where companies don't seem to care about the bottom line. The target demographic for most advertising is 18-40 year old males since they are the stupidest with money and are more likely to squander their money on the same company once they decide said product is superior. Yet a basketball player like Allen Iverson, while hugely popular, doesn't get much in the way of endorsements in spite of his popularity. This is due to his "street" attidude. To get endorsements in the US as a black man you have to appear squeaky clean, not be it. That being said I do not know enough about Phil Ivey's personality since all he does is stare and win to know about his overall marketability.Thank you.*bows*

[loxo 0]

Or practice your golf swing between hands. But I am sure if anyone who is flaming the physicality of poker were to play a 14 hour (or more) session they would feel how physically exhausting it is. Is it the same as running a marathon, obviously not, but that isn't the debate, you cannot say that a tomato isn't a fruit just because it commonly is mistaken for a vegetable.

Newsflash: sitting on the couch for 14hrs straight watching 8 or 9 dvd's back to back is also exhausting, it's not a sport though. Poker is a card game not a sport.People that aspire to be great poker players are aspiring to be great cardplayers not sportsmen........simple as that.

[stevedar 0]

Newsflash: sitting on the couch for 14hrs straight watching 8 or 9 dvd's back to back is also exhausting, it's not a sport though. Poker is a card game not a sport.People that aspire to be great poker players are aspiring to be great cardplayers not sportsmen........simple as that.

while I agree...any "sport" that has a tea house involved in it isn't really a sport either

[loxo 0]

while I agree...any "sport" that has a tea house involved in it isn't really a sport either

What's a tea house?

[stevedar 0]

whatever that building they have for cricket where they sit on their *** all day drinking tea waiting for their turn to bat

[loxo 0]

whatever that building they have for cricket where they sit on their *** all day drinking tea waiting for their turn to bat

I've played cricket on 3 continents and never heard of a tea house. There is a "tea" break of 20 mins in the afternoon session of a match which is really just a drinks break. While the British may still serve you tea during this break I can assure you you are free to drink whatever you like.

[chgocubs99 0]

Newsflash: sitting on the couch for 14hrs straight watching 8 or 9 dvd's back to back is also exhausting, it's not a sport though. Poker is a card game not a sport.

Speaking from experience?

[loxo 0]

Speaking from experience?

LMAO......hell yeah!!

[ksean9999 0]

If either of these players were not the best in their field, they would receive less marketing than people at a comparable level.Exhibit A: Paul Darden

exhibit B: dave williams - not considered the best in his field - certainly nowhere NEAR the level of ivey - and he is marketable. but what does race have to do with it?it's not whether or not being black is more or less marketable - that's not really the point, or at least it shouldn't be.the point is that in the white world of poker, being black MAKES you stand out - whether you like it or not - and that in itself, CAN help your marketability.for example, if paul darden was a white guy, many would not notice him, i mean he's not exactly a 5-time bracelet winner - but being black makes him stand out - for better or for worse (that's his call i guess)and it works both ways....steve nash is a great player but if he were a 6'6'' black man, would people notcie him as MUCH?NO!being a skinny little white boy in a league dominated by large black men makes him stand out.there are of course other issues like age and physical appearance and of course PERFORMANCE that will obviously help your marketability but being unique is powerful - and race can factor into that - big time.an ideal example of this would Grandmaster Maurice Ashley - he is an american chess player - who happens to be black. he is by no means anywhere NEAR the top of his field - even within the USA - he is, however, equal to or even MORE recognizable than any chess figure is america since bobby fischer. (who WAS at the top of his field by the way)obviously race is the key factor but in my opinion, it's a good thing because now any black kid who wants to play chess can be inspired by his success - i'm sure you agree with me on that one.of course, there will always be people who resent any minority's foray into a "white venue" thereby affecting one's "marketabilty" in an adverse manner - but this does not represent everybody - at least i hope not.

[mrdannyg 274]

exhibit B: dave williams - not considered the best in his field - certainly nowhere NEAR the level of ivey - and he is marketable.

David Williams is an excellent example, since he has had a lot of success, on a big stage, and has not shown aversion to being marketed. And yet, where is he being marketed?I don't know of any sites he is affiliated with, or if he is marketed in any other way.Maybe you should think about your points, or you may end up sticking your foot in your mouth and turning David Williams on. badum bing!

[ksean9999 0]

David Williams is an excellent example, since he has had a lot of success, on a big stage, and has not shown aversion to being marketed. And yet, where is he being marketed?I don't know of any sites he is affiliated with, or if he is marketed in any other way.Maybe you should think about your points, or you may end up sticking your foot in your mouth and turning David Williams on. badum bing!

i didn't say he was being marketed - i only stated that he stands out more than he would if he were white and old.because of that - he is marketable from that perspective - whether or not he is actually BEING marketed is something that i did not even address.what is it exactly that you disagree with and why?

[mrdannyg 274]

i didn't say he was being marketed - i only stated that he stands out more than he would if he were white and old.because of that - he is marketable from that perspective - whether or not he is actually BEING marketed is something that i did not even address.what is it exactly that you disagree with and why?

I disagree that Williams is marketable, despite being one of the upper echelon (arguably) of players. I think if you look at players with comparable skill/success, Williams is less marketable. My "proof" is that he is not being marketed currently, and he doesn't seem to have made a conscious choice to avoid it.