should i keep playing serious poker?? (very long)

[Guest]

I apologize before hand for the unintended length of this post, and the terrible grammar and typos, and the apalling spralling style (and the run on sentences with parenthases)... I've been up 22 straight stressfull hours, and am normally a good, concise writer. But, if you could spare the time, I really could use your collective expierience.So, i started playing online for the first time 3 days ago. I started an account on pacific (research showed it would be easiest to beat) with 100 dollars plus a sweet 60 from sign-up bonuses. I've never played a limit game with more than 2 people before (no joke- more on that later) but was immediatly shocked by view flop percantages in the mid 70%s at 2-4 on easier tables and people cold calling pre-flop with 9-6 (the first hand i ever saw someone did this and drew out on AA, hitting 2 pair on the flop and capping betting most rounds, at a 1-2 table). Anyway, i sat at a 1-2 table, made about 20$ in an hour went to Omaha hi-low 2-4, and made 100$ in like 3 hours, playing about 20% of hands at tables where the average was seriously high 60%s (without me it would have been in the 70s). It felt like I was getting average luck, some pot-odds draws went through, etc. It was kinda hard to tell since i've played maybe an hour of omaha 8/b before this, and that was .10-.20 no limit 3 handed, with like 15 dollars total on the table. Anyways, I went to bed with dreams of never having to work a regular job again.<<Skip ahead if you dont want to read the details>>The next day, I cancel the planned day-long ski trip with friends to stay home and play. The first few hours i try some new games (S and Gs, 7 stud, etc.) and come out about even. Then i decide to get to the grind. I play Omaha 8/b for 5 hours jumping between 2-3 and 3-6 tables (plus some 5-10 but i kept catching bad beats and leaving). I came out ahead 400$ after that 5 hours, on top of what i had made yesterday. This means i had over 700 in the account from an initial deposit of 100, and was making a rediculous amount of money per hour. I felt i was getting lucky, but within reasonable limits. I was still playing only around 35% of pots (which seems high but half of this was from blinds not being raised and me getting either free cards or 1-14 to call, which is always worth it in omaha). Towards the end, i started chasing bad 2 pairs (full house draws) and nut flushes without getting proper odds, and decided maybe i should cool off. I took an hour long break watching Basketball on tv, eating ice-cream, and relaxing.Anyways, I come back, and start losing. There was no good 2-4 or 3-6 omaha 8/b table so i sit at a full 3/6 HE table with a 70% view flop percantage and an average pot of $75. Juicy!! I sit in the big blind, and second hand i get pocket aces. I get it to 4 bets pre-flop, with 3 callers (and 2 more folding 2 bets) flop comes 2-7-k rainbow, perfect. They both check, and i decide to raise (with those pot odds i know they'll call with anything anyways, and a check here might look suspicious). They both call, next card is a 9. Check-check bet call call, 6. Check-check bet fold raise (?) call. He turns over 5-8, made a back door gut shot straight draw. Oh well. I vehemently vow not to let it effect me. I then proceed to get nothing playable, never get a steal situation, and my blinds always get raised when i have crap. I folded 28 straight times ( 2 more rounds of blinds) and leave the table. Theres a good 2-4 Omaha 8/b game going on, and i proceed to get what seems like the worst luck possible, losing 150 dollars in 3 hours. I had some bad bad beats, including flopping quad queens and having it lose to runner runner quad aces in a $150 pot (no low obviously). A pot that big should never happen in a 2-4 game, and when it does it hurts to lose it. Easy come easy go right? Well, although this was a huge blow, i knew it was comming. It seemed to me i had cought the best and the worst, and came out ahead. I went out with my friends who had went skiing (and were now back), and told them all about it. They were supportive and wanted to see me play, so they came back to my place (actually my mom's old house I'm housesitting, they just moved and im here before they renovate it in the summer, I'm only 19 and my only money comes from commercial fishing in the summer). The only omaha 8/b game going, besides the 1-2 which i now deam below me, is a 5-10 game with stats just like the other juicy 2-4 games. A little more raising pre-flop, and a few more well timed folds, but besides that its still an easy game. I proceed to lose 200 dollars in an hour, the first 100 on mostly broken (correct) draws and the second half on mostly broken (incorrect) draws. I think i can safely say this was the first time i had gone on tilt (it wasnt even that bad, i was still playing better then most of the people in the game i think and only seeing 40% of flops compared to the 65% average), and I realized i needed to stop. It was late, and i went to bed. On day 3 I again gave up skiing to avenge my losses. I decided that although i had caught bad breaks at the 5/10 table, and it was still easily within my abilities, it was not withing my bankroll and i gave it up. To make a long story short, (i know you guys are wanting me to move on) I made money, lost it, made more lost, it, and after 5 hours comming out even (with what i considered horrible luck) moved to the omaha high table (my first time at this game but i've thought a lot about it and seen it at the WSOP and figured correctly i would be better than everyone there). I lost 150 dollars at this game, varying limits, on some of the worst luck i've ever seen. These tables would be 2-4 with view flop percentages in the 80s or high 70s (if you dont believe me go there and see for yourself).<<Start reading here if you skipped that >>I'de play only good starting hands, worked out to about 15-20% i think not including blinds which were almost always free or 1-16 odds. It was a miracle of fate (i think) that i lost money. I took a 2 hour brake with friends, then came back and lost the whole rest of my bank roll on a mixture of games, which ended in me comming back to omaha high and losing 100 dollars on three hands where i flopped top trips or better and had them all lose, 2 of them rivered and one pocket aces full house where i should have known i was beat. All i have left is 5 dollars plus $4.98 in unredeemed comp bonus points for wagering $4,988.50 in raked pots.Now a little history: The highest stakes (and only) poker i've played (before this) is a $5 buy-in HE home game which started only 8 months ago. We've done $5 buy-in tournaments a few times and a few dealer's choice games late at night, but its rare. The only poker book I've read is Slansky's and Malmouth's (whatever his name is) Texas Hold'em for Advanced Players. This book is now very dog-eared, which is funny since i almost memorized a book about a game (limit hold'em) which untill three days ago i had never played. The reason i thought i was good enough to make at least minimum wage money however has less to do with Slanksy than it does me thinking about playing poker as a major hobby (note the thinking) over the last five months. I also have a very great physicall capacity for this type of thing. I passed the AP calculus test as a junior in HS without ever taking a calc test and studying for only 1 day, deriving most of the formulas on the test. Although i have never playhed Omaha hi, I wasnt having a problem (honestly, i have a gift) on drawing hands calculating all my certain (nut) outs, my probable outs, my odds of hitting these, and pot odds to see if its worth it all within a few seconds.I have completed both college level statistics and probability, and I understand the chances of me getting as unlucky as it seems i have described are very low, especially when combined with the fact that people always think they are better then they are and make excuses for it. They even will distort memories, which I assure you i have not done at all, this story is unbelievable enough already. Now to the meat: The empirical evidence, that I started with a good amount of money and lost it in easy games, suggest i am not ready for this type of thing. My mother (I talked to her right before posting this) said she would be adimently opposed to me spending any more money. It isnt far off enough yet for me to be objective, but im sure most of my friends will say i should quit too. So I'm comming here, trying to be as honest and thorough (ya i realize that last part got out of hand) as possible. What do you think? Was it just normal cold cards? Am I ready to start playing for money? Should I just try to play low limits for fun?

[JVick4 0]

I have been there, done that and got the t-shirt to go with it. Definatly do not stop playing poker, that is the only bad thing that you can do. I also have been caught in what you were doing and playing out of your bankroll. You had a good idea, in that toning it down to lower limits and work up from there. Use your apparent knowledge of math and statistics and to keep winning. GOOD LUCK.

[tmiesen359 0]

i think maybe it was just an up and down day. because you have read books by sklansky and understand basic probability and statistics, i would say if you really feel you like this game, you can keep it up. however, online is much different from home games and casino games. i play online, but only NL and i do reasonable for myself. i also find that i lose most of my money (when i do lose) to draws, usually correct. maybe if you stopped chasing draws almost completely, only allowing a few draws, it would win you some money. i have never really played O8 or even Omaha high for real money online, and frankly i dont think i ever will. Omaha is a game where you are never really safe, even if you flop the nuts. Stick to Holdem unless you truly feel you can beat the O8 games.Also, maybe you are just playing with too much money. you said you only played 5 dollar home games previous to online, and playing out of your comfort zone can destroy your previously solid game. I really think you should have gone skiing as well. after winning (or losing) a large amount of money, it can be easy to lose what you won, or dig a deeper hole. doing something like skiing could have cleared your head for the day.sorry for the long response, but a long post deserves a long response

[Emptyeye 0]

Well, the main problem as I see it is that 2/4, 3/6, etc. were far beyond your $160 starting bankroll. Yeah, you may be a good player, but every now and again you'll have one of "those sessions" where nothing goes right--flopping top set and losing to the runner-runner straight, hitting your flush on the turn and getting beat by a rivered full house, hitting a full house on the turn and getting beat by a better full house on the river, making the mathematically correct decision to fold your 34suited and finding you would have made your flush and utterly destroyed the people with pocket kings and pocket aces, etc. These happen pretty much regardless of skill, and it's easy to go on tilt when it happens time and again in the same session (I speak from Hold 'Em experience here, but with flop percentages that high, I can only imagine it's even worse in Omaha).So my advice would be to try again, but stick to games within your bankroll, regardless of what you think you can crush. Generally, for a limit game, you want at least 300 big bets (Sounds like a lot, I know) for the level you're at..this allows you to withstand the occasional fluctuation due to luck.

[MrConceit 0]

You had a good first day, and kinda went crazy on trying everything regardless of limit or game type. It happens a lot. Why would you deem 1/2 beneath you at that point? You'd played for a day or two, and had 700 bucks. You "should" have 500-600 bucks to play 1/2 anyway. You also were constantly playing new games to you, which is ok, but you should be playing them at the lowest limits to start, not jumping in on 3/6 or 5/10 because you didn't see any games you liked at low enough.It's fine to take a stab at a higher limit if the game looks juicy, but it's a little dicier if you've never ever played the game before at all. The short term deviation on poker is huge, you saw both sides of it, you won 700+ from 100, and then lost, then won again, then lost huge. That's why regardless of how good you think you are (even if you're right) you need to have something resembling a proper bankroll for what you're playing.You can be the best player in the world, but if you only have 75BB for what you're trying to play, you can have 1-2 bad sessions and then you're busted. Now you can't play again until you get staked. It happens all the time in the poker world, or so I read time and again.It's fine to occasionally play outside of your bankroll, but if you do it consistently you won't likely have a good time long-term.Oh since you're new: Normal bankroll required for limit games is usually 200-300 Big Bets. So at least 200-300 for .5/1, or double that for 1/2. For 10/20 you want 4k-6k. If you multi-table I like to say 400 BB, but pacific doesn't let you multi-table anyway.

[Ebonwoulfe 0]

I really don't think passing up skiing with your friends to play poker is good for your game either. You gotta keep things in balance or your poker game suffers. As well, it makes me nervous because it kinda sounds like you're getting close to having an addiction. Gambling addictions are a very real thing... you should be careful.

[The Ace of Jades 0]

It could be that it happened for no other reason because you were new to that site. When I first started on party I got down to about 9, from 50, and then had to battle my way back up. I recently cashed out and took it to full tilt, same thing is happening there. My AK suited getting beat by 47o, my pocket aces not improving and some guy with 92o calling my raise preflop and continual raises just because he paired his 2 on the flop and got lucky with a 9 on the river. Watching my crpatacular hands, like 25o making a straight on the flop after I folded it to a raise, my j3o making trips on the flop after I folded it. My 92o flopping a boat, after I folded it.I'm just on the bad end of probability where my bad cards make good hands and my good hands don't.You just gotta work through it, and after a while playing there you'll probably see yourself doing better.

[RadGrad2005 0]

I'll be the only guy to give you good advice.QUIT now while you still can.Poker is a bad and dangerous game.You will not come out a winner.Trust me. Use your strengths elsewhere.

[LeeDanger 0]

That's a really interesting response for a site that is made of a guy who has made a living playing poker.

[MilesZS 0]

No, you should keep playing. You obviously have a strangle-hold on the mathematics, and that alone should make you a winning player, if you can just keep yourself from straying from those mathematics. With a STAT brain like that, I would advice sticking to the limit games, where choices are based mostly on odds, your strong-suit. I don't see how you couldn't make money at the limit games with the knowledge you have. Just hold back, don't feel stupid for playing the lower limits, there is no shame in making money at low limits -- you're still making money!And while you're at it, AIM me and we'll chat about odds. I'm great at calculus, but I am one of those strange people who loves Calc, but freakin' hates figuring anything that has to do with odds. I've always been like this, and I have no explanation for it. Aaaand I just opened myself up to some fun flames.

[dead money 1]

the problem is ur playing way beyond ur means. its not the limit that makes a player good. just because u can beat a 5/10 game doesnt mean u should be playin it. it is hard to take the swings in this game w/o the adequate bankroll. u just have to suck it up and play the limits u can afford until u build ur bankroll. it sux but that is the way u have to do it. u cant cut corners in this game because it will come back to bite u. log the hours in lower limit games and build experience.

[Guest]

I just went and got some sleep, thanks for the replies. It deffinently occured to me I was playing outside my bankroll, and i did do research before I started playing to find out where I should play (notice this wasnt my first post). It was just so tempting! Because of the way my brain works, I think I am cappable of not having my bankroll size effect my play. I took the "300 bb" requirement as being so high mostly for psychological purposes. Good to hear I was wrong!In some ways, maybe this was good. I'll learn from it. And about skiing, I go 4 times a week (even though I'm still a full time student) so I dont feel too bad about missing. Thanks for the encouragement.

[Wily 0]

Good post - glad to hear another player with bankroll issues posting. 8) As I posted last night (after 8 hours of playing or so) , I deposited $45 into Full Tilt Poker about two weeks ago, had some major swings playing .25/.5 NL hold 'em, ended up cashing out $300 so far (have about 60 left). I used to play at much higher limits (5/10 and 1/2 NL) at Party Poker my sophomore year of college, with about $2000 in bankroll, and had a lot of nights like yours. Buy in for $100 on the 1/2 NL and end up over 700, then lose it all to bad playing and luck. Ended up up about $1500, but only after a wasted spring semester of C's and deans' emails - completely not worth the $17K in tuition. So I kicked the gambling habit for about 8 months, then only got back into this month after making sure my classes/life are copacetic, and promising myself not to deposit more than $100 in total. So far, I've kept the promise, but stuck to small games.Anyway, I thought I'd say some small tips from someone who used to be addicted to online poker, and often went above bankroll- Cash out 1/2 of your stack if you've tripled or more your starting stack. And then play some lower limits, if that forces you to do so, which will help prevent "winner's tilt" also. Trust me, even putting the money in a Neteller account or something will help prevent you from reaching into the stack when you've lost a buy in and aren't thinking too straight. So if you're at 300 after some good games, cash out $150 back into your bank and watch Family Guy or something. If you need to, incidentally, keep some of that withdrawal in the Neteller account (like $50 or $100) as an "emergency fund" if you really did lose all of your buy in. But make sure you use it ONLY if you really are down to 0, and not just down to $5 and still can build it up again by being patient on a microlimitDon't play for more than 2 hours without taking a break (go outside, smoke a fag, drink a coke, whatever). Or after you lose $100, do that too.Don't think you're better than other players because you've had more education in advanced mathematics. Sure, I took theoretical multivariable and linear algebra my freshman year, but that didn't mean I didn't call all-ins with top two pair against a hidden set. Most of the mathematics will not apply, unfortunately, to split second decisions against bluffs, or reading a player's behavior. The probability will help in calculating odds, but you won't beat a smart high school drop-out who's been playing for 10 years. I've gone to a few games at MIT, which probably has the best mathematical minds in the country, and still found people raising all in with AK on the turn when they missed completely ( and me collecting with an overpair) Best of luck -YLi

[jayboogie 0]

Good post - glad to hear another player with bankroll issues posting. 8) As I posted last night (after 8 hours of playing or so) , I deposited $45 into Full Tilt Poker about two weeks ago, had some major swings playing .25/.5 NL hold 'em, ended up cashing out $300 so far (have about 60 left). I used to play at much higher limits (5/10 and 1/2 NL) at Party Poker my sophomore year of college, with about $2000 in bankroll, and had a lot of nights like yours. Buy in for $100 on the 1/2 NL and end up over 700, then lose it all to bad playing and luck. Ended up up about $1500, but only after a wasted spring semester of C's and deans' emails - completely not worth the $17K in tuition. So I kicked the gambling habit for about 8 months, then only got back into this month after making sure my classes/life are copacetic, and promising myself not to deposit more than $100 in total. So far, I've kept the promise, but stuck to small games.Anyway, I thought I'd say some small tips from someone who used to be addicted to online poker, and often went above bankroll- Cash out 1/2 of your stack if you've tripled or more your starting stack. And then play some lower limits, if that forces you to do so, which will help prevent "winner's tilt" also. Trust me, even putting the money in a Neteller account or something will help prevent you from reaching into the stack when you've lost a buy in and aren't thinking too straight. So if you're at 300 after some good games, cash out $150 back into your bank and watch Family Guy or something. If you need to, incidentally, keep some of that withdrawal in the Neteller account (like $50 or $100) as an "emergency fund" if you really did lose all of your buy in. But make sure you use it ONLY if you really are down to 0, and not just down to $5 and still can build it up again by being patient on a microlimitDon't play for more than 2 hours without taking a break (go outside, smoke a censored, drink a coke, whatever). Or after you lose $100, do that too.Don't think you're better than other players because you've had more education in advanced mathematics. Sure, I took theoretical multivariable and linear algebra my freshman year, but that didn't mean I didn't call all-ins with top two pair against a hidden set. Most of the mathematics will not apply, unfortunately, to split second decisions against bluffs, or reading a player's behavior. The probability will help in calculating odds, but you won't beat a smart high school drop-out who's been playing for 10 years. I've gone to a few games at MIT, which probably has the best mathematical minds in the country, and still found people raising all in with AK on the turn when they missed completely ( and me collecting with an overpair) Best of luck -YLi

I know your trying to be helpful, but that's not good bankroll management advice. Don't cash out just because you start winning, especially if you play No Limit, a big stack is to your advantage. Don't look at poker as win/loss every session. That is, don't leave a game early just because you've won a lot and don't play an extra long session in order to book a small win. The whole hit and run thing only works if your never going to play poker again. If your going to play poker long term, booking small winning sessions and huge losing sessions is a recipe for disaster. Bankroll manament is very important obviously, the way to manage it is simple, always keep it in check. It's fine to take a shot at a higher limit game once in a while if you can beat it, but make sure your bankroll is still adequate for your normal game if you do this. To the original poster:You probably got lucky initially, it was beginner's luck more than anything. If your going to continue to play, then learn about the game and work at it. If you don't want to put in the work to become a winning player, then forget about it. The truth is almost everyone thinks theyre a winning player, but only a small percentage of players actually are. Most just break even or are delusional and keep inaccurate records.

[troutsmart 0]

Whenever a player mentions a single hand or even several as having a significant effect on them or their money, there is a problem. Hands should be analyzed as part of a process, where small mistakes, lead to a cumulatively large mistake. Your story sounds like many. You are not alone. In fact, you have far too many allies in your predicament. A few friends of mine come to mind when I think about your situation. I think about myself, not too long ago. It is a constant problem for players to play outside of their means. If you cannot take a month of losing, you shouldn't be playing at that level. I don't mean to sound harsh. I'm simply concerned, and want you to succeed. If this is going to be a continued trend, playing higher than your money allows, stop playing poker. If however, you can learn to play micro limits, which would be more appropriate, continue on. I don't question your skill, as I have no basis, but it sounds like your intelligent. However, we all sometimes try to make more money than is reasonable playing a game we play better than most.

[blueodum 0]

In addition to some issues mentioned above, I 'd like to make one other point:1) It's apparent that you did not approach this with a rational plan, as evidenced by jumping to different levels and games almost on a whim. I think it's incredible important to study the conditions of each game available to you and find one or two that most closely fit your style of play and tolerance for risk.Then, play only in those games for several weeks before you consider switching games. If you do this you will become familiar with your opponents and develop a fine-tuned intuition about which plays will work and which won't under existing game conditions at any given time. This will allow you to fold a good hand when appropriate and "know" when your opponent has nothing and raise him on the turn or river.You have to have a plan in place that will make you money. Then you need the discipline to follow through even when things are going badly. Finally, you need lots of experience at the given conditions to truly play an optimal game. Great mathematical skill is nothing but the base upon which you build your poker skills. You have a long journey ahead of you to truly become a master at this game (as do I, for that matter). Good luck.

[TheSandMan 0]

I suggest you switch to sit n gos. They are an excellent way to get back in the grove of things. Cash games are heaven if your luck is good, they will suck you dry if you seem to be losing to a 27 with pocket aces.It happens to us all. Just take a little while off, and come back fresh. I know from personal experience that the worst thing you can do after you lose a lot of money is try and win it back right away.

[pokernoobie 0]

sorry to break it to u but it sounds like u were just completely lucky, trust me happened to me too and tons of others i know. im not syaing that online poker is rigged or anything but A LOT of new players win for a bit but then begin losing perhaps the site is trying to get u to play perhaps it is a coincidence. i reccomend u take it slow and definately dont stop playing poker if u truly love it pick up some books do researchgood luck!

[cursive34 0]

same thing happened to me.i dont have much money to spend so i only put 10 bucks on pokerroom.Started out played the low limit games and go up to around 33 bucks. I stopped to play some live action then come back and i got greedy and sat at a 10 NL table. I had A-3 on big blind and flopped 2 pair. I bet and get two callers. Next card is nothing I bet around $2 bucks and get a caller. Next card is a spade giving the board 3 spades. He checks i bet around$5 he calls he chased the flush and got it on the river. I sit back in and same thing happens to me. I flop a straight i raise it all in get called by a flush draw and get hits on the river. There goes almost all my money. Then I take the free $10 i got from Pacific and cash it out and deposit some on Poker Mountain. A $25 deposit. I play a few sit n gos and win 3 out of 4 so im a good bit. I sit at the .15/.25 NL table. I sit down with $10 bucks a slowly work it up to around $20. The comes my downfall. I flop two pair and raise it a few bucks and get called. Then i raise it a couple more and get called. Then on the river i go raise it get called. He hits the flush on the river. Same thing happened again a few hands later. It drive me nuts cause i wanna play online but it seems like every time i try i end up getting drawn out every time.

[espnnate 0]

it is important to ask yourself how you were feeling after a bad outdraw. yes you took a break, but when you started again did you try to win your money back fast, and perhaps make mistakes? the chances are you did. since you were on a bad losing streak, and perhaps you played poorly as well, maybe you should have called it a day. just think about how you felt. also be careful about playing out of your limits. this is really important. you have to be able to handle swings like that finnancially

[pokernoobie 0]

same thing happened to me.Then I take the free $10 i got from Pacific and cash it out and deposit some on Poker Mountain. A $25 deposit. I play a few sit n gos and win 3 out of 4 so im a good bit. I sit at the .15/.25 NL table. I sit down with $10 bucks a slowly work it up to around $20. The comes my downfall. I flop two pair and raise it a few bucks and get called. Then i raise it a couple more and get called. Then on the river i go raise it get called. He hits the flush on the river. Same thing happened again a few hands later.

people keep talking about 10$ on pacific poker how exactly do u get this free 10$?

[cursive34 0]

just sign up for it and i got an email the next day taht said they gave me $10 bucks

[Guest]

I'd like to say thanks to ALL the posters, but i think i might have created some mis-perceptions in my post. First, Im not a gambler. I dont hate gambeling, but i dont get anything from it. I have never bet on anything which was even money in my life, and I really dont get a rush when i win a pot. There have been times were I'll win and realize my call had a narrowlly negative EV, and i'll be genuinly dissapointed. Not "sweet, it worked this time, but I wont do it again". More like "damnit, i shouldnt have played that one" but with less emotion then it sounds.Second, I am nowhere near a strictly math person. I didnt take one math course in high school. The college courses I took were easy and i had a less then 50% attendence rating (I still got As). I believe the straight up math oriented approach works best in these types of games whith 80% view flop percentages. Theres no reason to be tricky. On the same note, the most money i've won is not on poker but rock-paper-scissors. This sounds like gambling but isnt. I can win about 80% of the time against average people (im sure it would be closer to 60-40 against poker players) playing to 8. Once, my friend bet someone in a bar (my friend was a bit drunk, we had fake IDs) that i could get to 10 wins beofore he could get to 5. I beat him 3 straight times, with the last wager being $100.Third, I didnt get lucky, I got unlucky. I shouldnt have said it was my first time playing some of those games, it was very misleading. I went back and looked at the hands (you can reply them like they're live on pacific poker), after making the post and getting some sleep, and i made correct plays almost every time. My mistakes were mostly small, and I only made mistakes more than once in a row when when i barely went on tilit (again, watching the hands, i think i was still playing better then most of the people). This wasnt NL where deception and bluffing are key, and the correct play can be impossible to identify with 100% certainty. This was robot limit, where you only play the nuts or damn close to it, and your opponents cold call your raises because they are watching TV and dont realize you played 25% of the flops over the last hour. Also, the specific hands i listed were because i wanted to be thorough. I didnt let them effect me.

[Scott31 0]

The only omaha 8/b game going, besides the 1-2 which i now deam below me, is a 5-10 game with stats just like the other juicy 2-4 games.

Really? You figured this out in like, what, 5 hours of play? You don't have the bankroll or anywhere near the knowledge and experience to consistently beat a 1-2 game (Party Poker maybe, but UB and Stars, and most others, no). You lost because you relied on short term luck, rather than long term. It's pretty much the same thing these Vegas tourists do. They come into the city of lights with a twinkle in their eye hoping that the planets align just right today for them so they can go home with a success story. Several go home with that juicy story, but most go home with empty pockets. For the guys that play and win at a level consistently, I have a question for you. What percent of total money is inserted into your regular games by guys who just take a stab at a level and are hoping for short term luck, to hit it big?I'd propose that poker would be ridiculously difficult to be a winner at if it weren't for these people. In short, don't be that guy. Also, Hold em for Advanced Players is beyond your level at this point. Get Small Stakes Hold em by Sklansky. The reason is (and Sklansky points this out) that you can have identical situations and one play is the polar opposite at the small stakes games as opposed to the advanced games. Your opponents help dictate your play, so I'd come back to the shallow end on your choice of books.

[blueodum 0]

Not knowing the specifics of the tables you were playing at, it sounds as though you weren't seeing the flop enough.When all your opponents are seeing the flop almost everytime, you should increase the number of times you see the flop as compared to what is considered conventional at a full table.The reason for this is that your post-flop play, being superior to that of your opponents, will allow you to make money on decisions after the flop. And you will still be coming in with better starting hands on average than your opponents. If everyone is seing the flop, you should fold whenever you don't hit the flop hard.For example, if you are playing LHE and can get in on a flop cheap when on the button at a loose table, you should see the flop at least 85% of the time (when on the button).This is a superior strategy to playing tight pre-flop, but it also means that you will experience greater variance. In such conditions, your available bankroll should probably be at least 500 BBs.You went way beyond the limits you should be playing at with your bankroll (as others have stated). This was your greatest mistake.