hand from fischman's blog

[ICrushHomeGames 0]

Just on Cardplayer.com, and clicked on Fischman's blog. This hand made me think for quite some time. How to play this?Flopping a big hand/Leading into a raiserBy Scott Fischman - 2006-02-13 Please let me know what you would have done here, as I obviously misplayed this hand.A NLH SnG, 25/50 blinds. I was in the Big Blind with black 2s; 3 players and the SB limp. 5 players, 250 in the pot. The flop is 2-9-2. I checked and so did the table.The turn was an Ace and again I checked, thinking someone would definitely bet here, again everyone checked. The river was a Jack.I bet 150 and to my horror everyone folded to the SB, who thought and then mucked (I’ve since put him on a 9 and think he would have paid a flop bet).The question is, I know I misplayed the hand but what’s your advice to flopping a monster and getting paid off?Wil – TallahasseeWil,When they say there is a lot of luck in poker sometimes they are referring to situations like this. Obviously when you flop quads there aren’t a whole lot of combinations of cards for your opponents to be holding that would make them want to pay you off. After a huge flop like this. I would consider it lucky for you to find a spot where you would make a lot of money. One of the most common ways for you to do this is to induce a big bluff by someone in the pot with you. Since you have pretty much everything out there the only way to make a ton of money is by inducing the bluff. Personally, I usually just bet right out. If the pot was 250 I would probably bet out 175. Since you were in the blind, you want to represent that you are representing the 2. It is very common for a player in the blinds to lead out on a rag flop like this. If you lead out big it narrows the chances of you having a deuce in your opponent’s mind and he might try to bluff you!

[Eastwood Jr. 0]

Just on Cardplayer.com, and clicked on Fischman's blog. This hand made me think for quite some time. How to play this?Flopping a big hand/Leading into a raiserBy Scott Fischman - 2006-02-13 Please let me know what you would have done here, as I obviously misplayed this hand.A NLH SnG, 25/50 blinds. I was in the Big Blind with black 2s; 3 players and the SB limp. 5 players, 250 in the pot. The flop is 2-9-2. I checked and so did the table.The turn was an Ace and again I checked, thinking someone would definitely bet here, again everyone checked. The river was a Jack.I bet 150 and to my horror everyone folded to the SB, who thought and then mucked (I’ve since put him on a 9 and think he would have paid a flop bet).The question is, I know I misplayed the hand but what’s your advice to flopping a monster and getting paid off?Wil – TallahasseeWil,When they say there is a lot of luck in poker sometimes they are referring to situations like this. Obviously when you flop quads there aren’t a whole lot of combinations of cards for your opponents to be holding that would make them want to pay you off. After a huge flop like this. I would consider it lucky for you to find a spot where you would make a lot of money. One of the most common ways for you to do this is to induce a big bluff by someone in the pot with you. Since you have pretty much everything out there the only way to make a ton of money is by inducing the bluff. Personally, I usually just bet right out. If the pot was 250 I would probably bet out 175. Since you were in the blind, you want to represent that you are representing the 2. It is very common for a player in the blinds to lead out on a rag flop like this. If you lead out big it narrows the chances of you having a deuce in your opponent’s mind and he might try to bluff you!

Considering that board, I don't know if I would lead the flop but I also don't want to disagree with Fischman because he's a slightly more accomplished player than I am. (sw) I would be interested to know if you took a long time to make up your mind before you checked or if you played it like you normally would.

[ICrushHomeGames 0]

Why not check the flop and bet/raise the turn?

[petersun 0]

I think this hand was doomed to be not paid off. It sounds like nobody had an Ace or even a Jack.I think the two plays that would work most are a 175 bet on the flop indicating that you hit the 9 but want to see if anyone has a 2. The other play that might work is betting out on the turn trying to induce someone into thinking you're bluffing the ace.In the end, I don't think either move will get you paid off.

[nomad_monad 0]

if everyone limped in here, chances are they are doing it with stuff like A-rag, connectors (low and medium), pocket pairs, and trash hands looking to get lucky (Q4o, J6o, etc.)when the board comes 229, you might get someone willing to call off a medium sized bet hoping to hit a pair on the turn card, especially if one of their cards is a high card. or maybe you get called with someone with low pocket pairs suspecting a steal.when the turn comes an A, i think it is more likely to kill action than not. reason being, there are simply way more hands that could've limped here without an A than with one. a bet on the flop, and then checking the turn when a high card hits in the hope of inducing a bluff (true bluff or play-back bluff) seems to me the likeliest scenario for getting paid here.

[TheKingOfAces 0]

When you flop quads, don't expect much. The only time I legitimately stacked someone with quads(meaning that a donk didn't pay me off with something like tpwk), the board was 2-Q-2 and the turn brought a Q. The guy with queens full couldn't fold.

[mk 11]

You lead out on the flop because your opponents in the hand expect you to slowplay a deuce. If you check the flop, it gets checked around, and then you lead out on the turn, it looks a little more like a deuce that's scared of not getting any action, right? If you lead out on the flop, someone holding a nine is much more likely to give action, and like Scott says, you're much more likely to induce bluffs.

[timwakefield 68]

You lead out on the flop because your opponents in the hand expect you to slowplay a deuce.  If you check the flop, it gets checked around, and then you lead out on the turn, it looks a little more like a deuce that's scared of not getting any action, right?  If you lead out on the flop, someone holding a nine is much more likely to give action, and like Scott says, you're much more likely to induce bluffs.

Are you joking? Nobody expects you to have a deuce in the first place. Check quads on the flop, always always always. If you wanna get it paid, you need to let your opponents see more cards (2/3 of the flop is all yours, helping nobody else at the table...chances that somebody has a good hand are very low).When you bet on either 4th or 5th street, nobody will think you have been slowplaying trip 2s...they will think that your hand improved on 4th or 5th street, respectively.

[therrinn 0]

You lead out on the flop because your opponents in the hand expect you to slowplay a deuce.  If you check the flop, it gets checked around, and then you lead out on the turn, it looks a little more like a deuce that's scared of not getting any action, right?  If you lead out on the flop, someone holding a nine is much more likely to give action, and like Scott says, you're much more likely to induce bluffs.

Are you joking? Nobody expects you to have a deuce in the first place. Check quads on the flop, always always always. If you wanna get it paid, you need to let your opponents see more cards (2/3 of the flop is all yours, helping nobody else at the table...chances that somebody has a good hand are very low).When you bet on either 4th or 5th street, nobody will think you have been slowplaying trip 2s...they will think that your hand improved on 4th or 5th street, respectively.

I'm a fan of the leading out school of thought as well. I think you're much more likely to get paid off, unless the turn or river would've made someone a set or something.

[timwakefield 68]

You lead out on the flop because your opponents in the hand expect you to slowplay a deuce. If you check the flop, it gets checked around, and then you lead out on the turn, it looks a little more like a deuce that's scared of not getting any action, right? If you lead out on the flop, someone holding a nine is much more likely to give action, and like Scott says, you're much more likely to induce bluffs.

Are you joking? Nobody expects you to have a deuce in the first place. Check quads on the flop, always always always. If you wanna get it paid, you need to let your opponents see more cards (2/3 of the flop is all yours, helping nobody else at the table...chances that somebody has a good hand are very low).When you bet on either 4th or 5th street, nobody will think you have been slowplaying trip 2s...they will think that your hand improved on 4th or 5th street, respectively.

I'm a fan of the leading out school of thought as well. I think you're much more likely to get paid off, unless the turn or river would've made someone a set or something.

Or a pair or a straight or a flush.....on the flop everybody is folding unless they have at least one 9 or an overpair. On the turn you will get callers who pair that card, and on the river you will get callers who pair THAT card. Re-read your Supersystem

[copernicus 0]

I cant see betting the flop here. What looks more threatening to a mediocre hand..say 2 overs...a bet on the flop, or a check and bet on the turn after a blank hits? A bet on the turn looks like it may very well be a steal attempt after everyone is so passive on the flop.

[shpaget 0]

I cant see betting the flop here. What looks more threatening to a mediocre hand..say 2 overs...a bet on the flop, or a check and bet on the turn after a blank hits? A bet on the turn looks like it may very well be a steal attempt after everyone is so passive on the flop.

I agree here - I'm betting any turn card, but I'll check the flop.I may bet the flop if I was the button because it looks more like a steal...a SB bet on the flop looks like you have something, even if it's the 9.

[therrinn 0]

Overcards probably call on that flop. any mid pair will call on that flop. Any nine will call on that flop. You bet out and I assure you that no one will put you on a 2. They'll put you on a weak nine or a small pocket or on a bluff. Say another card comes out on the turn, a Q or something. Anyone who didn't pair that Q doesn't like his hand very much. mid pairs are no longer calling. Overcards are no longer calling. What are you going to do if you check the flop? Bet out on the turn? You might get a call, and then maybe another call on the river, but not if you bet big. Are you going to check raise? That's getting a fold in response. Betting out on the flop is the only chance you have at building any sort of pot, short of a miracle turn and river for one player, giving him a fh or something. There are times when slowplaying is correct. You slowplay your hand when you think your opponent has enough of a hand to play at you, but not enough that he has a good chance of drawing out. When you have no reason to think that they have a hand, the best way to induce a bluff is to build a pot that is worth bluffing at. Do you really think someone is about to bluff at a pot that is just a couple limpers and the blinds?More than likely, you're going to check it round twice and then you'll either get folded to on the river or one or two players might call a small bet. That's great, but I'd try to actually get paid off on my quads, and I think the best way of doing that is to bet out on the flop.

[shpaget 0]

Overcards probably call on that flop. any mid pair will call on that flop. Any nine will call on that flop. You bet out and I assure you that no one will put you on a 2. They'll put you on a weak nine or a small pocket or on a bluff. Say another card comes out on the turn, a Q or something. Anyone who didn't pair that Q doesn't like his hand very much. mid pairs are no longer calling. Overcards are no longer calling. What are you going to do if you check the flop? Bet out on the turn? You might get a call, and then maybe another call on the river, but not if you bet big. Are you going to check raise? That's getting a fold in response. Betting out on the flop is the only chance you have at building any sort of pot, short of a miracle turn and river for one player, giving him a fh or something. There are times when slowplaying is correct. You slowplay your hand when you think your opponent has enough of a hand to play at you, but not enough that he has a good chance of drawing out. When you have no reason to think that they have a hand, the best way to induce a bluff is to build a pot that is worth bluffing at. Do you really think someone is about to bluff at a pot that is just a couple limpers and the blinds?More than likely, you're going to check it round twice and then you'll either get folded to on the river or one or two players might call a small bet. That's great, but I'd try to actually get paid off on my quads, and I think the best way of doing that is to bet out on the flop.

Position is important here...from the SB you at least have a hope of having everyone act behind you.And depending on the table, and the quality of the players, very few players with overcards (especially when everyone limped pf) will call any kind of bet. The overcards I would expect to call a flop bet I would expect to raise pf.Any pair and any 9 will call, but that's about it.Come the turn, you're under 50/50 to have a card over 9 come up...a bet looks more like a steal, even from first position. If a queen comes, you have increased the likelihood of a caller because any queen will call....and a queen is a more likely holding for people who entered the pot pf. With a proper sized bet, the 9 may still call, as may 88, if they think it's cheap, and that they may be winning.A big part of it depends on your image and your betting patterns.If you mostly lead at flops it would look really suspicious if you checked, so in that case I would lead the flop.

[Eastwood Jr. 0]

Overcards probably call on that flop. any mid pair will call on that flop. Any nine will call on that flop. You bet out and I assure you that no one will put you on a 2. They'll put you on a weak nine or a small pocket or on a bluff. Only a very weak player would call one of the blinds with overcards. There's just no value in calling with no pair when one likely scenario has you drawing dead and the other has you running as a 4 to 1 dog. For the most part I agree with the pundits who say this hand just wasn't meant to be a big payoff.The ace on the turn should have been a gin card with five way action. However, since it appears nobody had one, the river bet signified what everybody was thinking, "I don't have the ace, so whoever bets wins". For this reason, I kind of like leading the turn in the first place. If anybody has an ace, you can dictate the price you want to charge them for it. (I would say about 3/4 of the pot) If someone has AQ, or A9 you may even get reraised. Assuming you bet and were called on the turn, then the river card, a jack, would be a good fit for your opponents hand if they were holding either AJ (top two) or A10,A8,A7,A6 etc. , because in the latter example it would improve their hand from (A A 2 2 9) to (A A 2 2 J) which would increase their chances of getting a split pot if they put you on an ace as well. For this reason I would bet agian about 1/2 to 2/3 the pot in hopes of getting payed off.This is all hypothetical since in reality, nobody had anything and our hero won an inconsequential pot.

[jhub30 0]

A lot depends on your image. If you have an aggressive image you are much more likely to get paid off. I have an aggressive image. An example of me being paid off because of this is last night: I cold called a raise w/ AA in the BB because it was already heads up & I wanted to trap. I flopped a set and led for 1/2 the pot (making it look like a standard CB), my opponent moved in with middle pair. I smiled and called because this guy was cocky & talking sh!t the whole game. Even with my aggressive image, I tend to check this flop. If it were 22 & a high card (especially an ace) I might lead. With a 9, I think I have to check (I'm clearly not getting drawn out on here). I probably lead the turn here sicne it's an ace. If noone has an ace, you aren't getting paid anyway.