no limit hold 'em cash game advice

[akishore 0]

online, i play almost exclusively limit HE (some limit omaha hi/lo too, but i'm talking about HE right now), but my poker roots are in NLHE cash games. i thought i knew poker but the more timepasses,the more i realize how little poker i really understood.for now, i'm sticking to limit cash games online (because of lower variance as well as having to play the person less, since you can't see people, etc.), but every once in a while, i play NLHE cash games live. i find these to be very fun, since you can play the man and rely strongly on your reads. since it's usually a social atmosphere, you can also play more hands, bluff more, etc.so although i know some general differences between limit HE and NLHE, i wanted to get a thread with advice geared specifically towards NLHE cash games. below are some differences/tips that i know.implied odds are much bigger.you can play many more drawing hands. low/middle pocket pairs go way up in value when you hit sets, so if you can see a cheap flop, they're more than worth it. suited connectors also go way up in value, because again, if you can see a cheap flop and hit hard, you can double up, and if you don't hit hard, you can easily drop them.this also means that i play many more ragged hands (4-7, 3-6, 2-6, 4-5, 6-8, any hand where both cards are 8 or lower that can make a straight), both suited and unsuited. as far as playing suited cards, i will occasionally play Axs, but not often, so unless i have a premium hand, my flushes will always be either nut flushes or baby flushes.reverse implied odds are much bigger.this means that i will tighten way up on premium hands. i don't really have a rigid requirement in this sense, but as an example, i won't play AJ and KQ very aggressively, and i won't even play AT and KJ (possible exception being that they're suited, but even then, i'm super-cautious). i'll play AA/KK/QQ aggressively, JJ/TT cautiously, and 99-22 like drawing hands. the idea is that marginal hands (or good hands in limit or shorthanded play) can easily be dominated, and you must avoid that. to me, 4-8 is better than A-8 in a NLHE cash game.i will also play flopped hands more cautiously. TPTK is good, but i won't marry it. this might seem overly cautious to some, but i'll even be careful with bottom two, or top and bottom two pair. with top two, i'll get aggressive, but even then, i'll always be on the lookout for sets. coordinated and three-suited flops are heavily dangerous, and i will easily lay down marginal hands in these situations. with straights and flushes, paired boards will always slow me down if i've been facing any sort of action against my aggressive betting. same with turns/rivers that appear to complete a flush draw or possible OES draw, etc.aggression is important, but trapping is more important.instead of being aggressive on hands that i play, i'll slow down on the flop usually and mix up my play so that i'm not just betting when i'm weak and trapping when i'm strong. i keep most of my bets half the size of the pot, but most of my raises are pot-sized raises. if i get any action on hands where i was the pre-flop aggressor, i'll become cautious right away since i could be trapped (e.g. if i have AA i could be against a set).it can be argued that in NLHE cash games, players that show pure aggression will not last very long. a big part of NLHE cash games is having an even temperment, IMHO. i've seen loose/aggressive players get taken out too often, but if you mix in caution and discipline with a loose style, you can still be aggressive and still win.position is big, but position combined with good reads is HUGE.if you can understand and read your opponents, and you have position, your cards don't even matter. bluffing the pre-flop aggressor is a powerful move in this game, and it can really be accomplished by position. if i have a read on a rock that tells me he has AK, and the flop comes 4-7-9, it doesn't matter what he does, i'm betting aggressively if he checks and i'm raising all-in if he bets. it doesn't matter if his AK is ahead.this is also one of my biggest fears everytime i'm out of position. your bluffing powers are shot, because bluff-raises will kill you. in a sense, bluff-check-raising all-in is the only reliable defense against this if you're out of position, but that's a super risky move, so it's not practical. if i have QQ and the flop comes K-9-8, i fear for my stack when i'm out of position. i'm still not certain what to do in situations like this, especially when it's heads-up, and especially against a good opponent.mistakes are magnified. luck is also magnified.i tend to err on the side of caution, so i have folded KK on an A-high flop when my flop bet got raised, though sometimes i'll re-raise. however, against opponents like mine, a re-raise is not as effective since an all-in will follow, and i won't know what to do. thus, i err on the side of caution in aggressive games like mine. in more passive games, playing any hand is always easier, but in aggressive games, you have to have the discipline to lay down a hand on a dangerous board, even if your opponent might be bluffing.in a similar vein, you have to be able to lay down your hand on decent draws (e.g. flush draw, OES draw) even when the pot is offering you the right odds, IF you will be gambling for a big part or all of your stack. we did a whole thread on this, about how gambling for your stack in NL can eat your bankroll quickly with a bad streak. in my game, you need a crowbar to pry away some of the players from their draws, and this, IMHO, is bad NLHE cash game play.drop little edges, exploit big edges.let me take an example from PL omaha hi/lo, a game which has helped me improve my NLHE game solely based on its principles. you hold AKQJ, your opponent holds KQ87, and the flop is 9-T-J. you both flopped the nut straight, but you are freerolling him (you have a higher redraw, and he is drawing dead against you). if you have the latter hand, you MUST be disciplined enough to fold it against aggressive betting since you have no redraw, and if you have the former hand, this is your golden opportunity to push in all your chips. more often than not, you'll split the pot, but in the long run, this freerolling opportunity is a huge edge that you should exploit. there are similar examples, but you get the point.i try to have the same mentality in NLHE. if my edge is small, i will not make a mountain out of a molehill, so to speak. if i'm facing aggressive betting, i'm ready to lay down a hand. i don't mind losing the few chips i put in pre-flop, because the key to this game, IMHO, is waiting for the huge opportunities and making the most of those. if i have 99 against a pre-flop raiser, the flop comes 2-3-4, i will muck my hand against aggressive betting. he could easily have a higher PP (maybe even with a gutshot if he has AA), and there's no point in paying him off to find out. i can wait for the time when i get AA and make the other guy pay me off with his 99 thinking his overpair is good.this is about all i can think of at the moment. i would love to hear some more advice on this subject. as a note, i'm not looking for advice like "just wait for the nuts and go all-in." usually, live NLHE games are a little tougher than that. online, that strategy might work for some, especially at the lower stakes, since nobody notices anything about you, but in any slightly non-half-assed game, you can't get away with that.thanks,aseem

[NormanHaupt 0]

Mod, sticky this. This is classic question answering

[akishore 0]

thanks norm. this is surprising, though, i thought there were quite a few people on this forum who were into NLHE cash games. guess not?anyway, i thought of some more points i thought were worth putting down.draws are either great or terrible.the key factors in deciding whether to chase any draw, be it flush or gutshot, are the size of the bet, the pot size, the maximum you can win, your bankroll, and your risk tolerance. if playing pot odds is key in limit hold'em, playing implied odds is key in NL hold'em. for example, if i flop a flush draw heads-up and my opponent bets half my stack, way over the pot, it's an easy fold. too many people make the mistake of calling that bet or semi-bluff-raising there, IMHO. sure, you'd love to catch them bluffing or make them pay for overbetting the pot, and you'd hate to drop such a decent draw, but it's what you have to do, i think.on the other hand, if you're facing a very weak bet with a gutshot, it's an easy call or even a free-card semi-bluff-raise. i, personally, never play gutshots, since my games are usually aggressive and the pot and implied odds never allow me to go for gutshots. however, i have read in many places, including super/system, where the author advocates always playing for gutshots in NLHE. i think that it all boils down to personal style, guts (i don't think i have the balls to play gutshots, honestly), and the aggressiveness of the game.playing the man is vital.it's always said that poker is a game of people rather than a game of cards, and while this is arguably true in any form of poker, i think it's the truest in NLHE. i would strongly suggest reading mike caro's book of poker tells and understanding some psychology of poker. while specific examples are usually outdated, the concepts behind them are not. that is, a lot of people become more alert when they catch a good hand, suddenly paying attention. a lot of people get tense when they miss a flop and come out betting (you can see a high pulse rate in their neck, for example).since this thread is geared more towards live play, i strongly advocate paying attention to a lot of details even when you're not in the hand. the easiest way to do this for me is to simply focus in on the preflop aggressor, and only shift my focus if someone else shows more aggression. if there's a showdown, i can then piece together the information, but if you weren't focusing, you've lost valuable reads. when i'm in the hand, i also pay close attention to whether i can make an opponent fold, or whether he will show automatic aggression if i show weakness, whether he slowplays a lot, things like that. after some experience, having reads and tells like these helps greatly in marginal situations, like having an unimproved pocket pair on a flop with one overcard.mixing up your game is more important.in limit hold 'em, you can change gears in good games, but the reward of that isn't huge (arguable). however, in NL, the risk vs. reward ratio goes way down. if every once in a while you raise with rags and showdown trip 4's, you can really set yourself up for some big pots when you have a decent hand. this is obvious, of course, but almost no one does it. only the best players in my game do it, and that's what makes them so good. this is different from just playing loose, though. the key to this, also, is that your opponents must have a sliver of knowledge enough to study you.my favorite plays in this regard is to raise with any two suited rags in early position, preferably under the gun. a hand like 68s is great, because i can also rake in a big pot if i hit the flop hard, and if not, i'll try to go for a cheap showdown just to show my 68s. another play i like is to raise three or four hands pre-flop, all in a row, disregarding my cards, then tighten up right afterwards. you just have to be careful not to get trapped, and you'll be amazed how much that does for action at the table. in a similar vein, showing two or three bluffs in a row because after showing the first, people sometimes expect you to not bluff again. finally, i like straddling (posting double the big blind to buy the pre-flop option) to change my table image. i do all of these things with an overall tight style, and this helps my game a lot.employ "priming", and think one level above the rest.priming your opponents means that you let them win multiple small pots, then nail them in a huge pot. this is related to the idea of dropping small edges and exploiting big ones. this idea works really well for shorthanded play, but it also works in NL if you decide you want to set yourself up for some action and are going to play the next three or four hands regardless of your cards. this is a tough strategy to use since you could lose a good amount of chips pre-flop, but if your opponents take notice of your looseness and passiveness, it can be to your advantage.to do it well, though, you need to again play your opponent really well. beyond just making good reads, you have to understand him and know what he's thinking about. if thinking on Level 1 is thinking about your cards, and Level 2 is thinking what your opponent has, and Level 3 is thinking about what your opponent thinks you have, etc., then the key to playing the man is to think one step ahead of him. if you play with friends, this is usually easy to do since most people tend to always think on the same level. for example, one of my friend always makes attempts at reading my hand, but he never considers the fact that i know this, and i can use it to my advantage by manipulating his reads.if you can set yourself up for a big hand, then you can play the big hand in a similar way to the way you played those little pots that you let go of. however, you have to disguise it from trapping also. so, if for example, i bet out on the flop three times in a row then folded to a raise, i'll vary my action on the fourth time depending on what level my opponent is thinking on. if he suspects i will slowplay when i have a huge hand, i will come out betting on the flop again, a little more aggressively this time, and if he raises me, i can trap on the turn or reraise right there. i'm sure you get the point.i'm still looking forward to some more advice from others. please, speak up!thanks,aseem

[mangwansi 0]

I think you have some really good stuff in here. What people have to consider is the general caliber of the opponents they might be up against; if you're playing in a typical home game with the average Joe Blow player, staying aggressive with big PP is a good strategy. If he happens to have KQ or a lower PP pair, the average player will find it very difficult, if not nearly impossible to let that TPTK go, when in fact, you're holding rockets.The good thing about your advice is that not only can your advice be applied towards novices, but more advanced players as well. I would, however, argue that your strategies work best with intermediates. The classic intermediate player, when looking down at his cards in late position and seeing kings or aces, will immediately think to himself, How much money can I take in this hand? The thought of laying down this pair will never, EVER occur to him. And in the scenario where one raises with 87s in EP or 57s, connectors of that nature, the intermediate player will make the classic mistake of just cold calling the raise and seeing the flop, and hoping to trap the opponent then and there. Of course, if the flop comes perfect for the 87s, it is he who is indeed trapped. This is where he can get busted pretty badly, and the EP position raiser, if he plays his potential draw correctly, can mass a large amount of money. The advanced player, if he was perceptive enough to notice the EP raiser's unpredictibility, would have never slowplayed a big PP and probably either reraised preflop or played his PP on the flop very carefully.The advice that I most liked was the theory of "priming your opponents." In NLHE, it's not the cards that'll win you the most amount of money, (as more so in limit), but on three factors: 1) table image, 2) the state of your opponent's mind, and 3) TIMING. This priming theory inculcates all three of these factors. Take this scenario:You decide to present yourself at the table as an aggressive pre-flop raiser, but often laying down your hand on the flop if faced with a re-raise or even a single bet. Opponents take note of this and grow in confidence. What they don't notice, however, is that you're not losing that much money with these bets; again, akishore is emphasizing the factor of laying down MARGINAL EDGES and maximizing LARGE ONES. What the real payoff in these laydowns, then, is your table image and how the opponents have invested false confidence in it. Their confidence will lead them to make incorrect plays in future situations where THEIR edge is rather marginal or even nonexistent, and of course, by that time you will have awakened with a monster hand.It's been said over and over again that NLHE takes a lifetime to learn - there's a reason why that statement doesn't get old. It's true. Exploring psychological manipulations and exploiting opponents' weaknesses are far more important than playing big cards. This is, of course, assuming that you're generally pretty skilled at reading opponents. If you're a novice reading this, get some experience by playing in as many live games as you can!good post, akishore -p.s. I'm sure many of you out there disagree with some of the points that I've brought up, and that's a good thing - the only bad thing is when you disagree and are too lazy to post it; it kills stimulation. So feedback, whether positive or negative, is always appreciated.

[JistTheFist 0]

once again, as always akishore, great great thread... here's a few things I have to say about this...since some friends are starting up a weekly nlhe cash game on tuesday nights... I thought I'd love to read some advice and give some as well....like you said... implied odds are HUGE... I'll give an example... it was one of the later hands of the night and there were only four of us still playing I was in the big blind and look down at J-2clubs.... yep, Jack-2 clubs... not exactly a monster... not even exactly a playing hand... I'd almost fold it even if I got a free look at the pot.... UTG raises I think 3xBB... and both other players call. now I was fully prepared to fold this hand to a raise, BUT since the other players stayed in I thought to myself "check out this flop, and if you hit it HARD you will get paid off big time." so I called because I knew if I got lucky with a flop like J-J-x or three clubs I would be getting a huge return... the flop came down Q-J-2... I bet and the UTG player raised me... the others folded... I think about it for awhile and decide that his only hands could only be AQ or QJ (based on how I know this player) so I called the turn was a 10 and he went allin I was most definitely committed to the pot even though I kind of felt I was behind now (it was only like 6 dollars more into a $40 pot) so I called and he flipped over his AQ... he didn't improve on the river and I took the biggest pot of the night.like you said... with a lot of players... marginal or normally folding hands become playable in NL... I especially like 4-7suited and 10-8 or 10-7 suited for some reason... but here's the key... don't get involved in too many pots with them... in fact you siad you'd see flops with hands like 4-8 offsuit or 3-6offsuit if it was cheap enough... I don't think that's a very good idea.in fact I don't think there is a "cheap enough" with those hands... yeah I'd play them out of the blinds maybe for a discounted price... but I Think if you call too many blinds wiht hands like that and then don't hit on the flop you're dwindling away too much of your stack... at least say they have to be suited to call into those...I understand that the one time you DO hit will probably make up for the 15 that you don't... but if you don't hit a single time you might be looking at close to 5-10 dollars (I don't know what blinds you're playing really) that you just gave away out of seeing to many flops... heads-up potsone important thing though, DON'T BE AFRAID TO SEE A FLOP IN A HEADS-UP POT WITH ANY TWO CARDS. heads up the value of your hands improves greatly. of course don't go calling a huge raise into a pot with 2-4 offsuit just cuz it's heads-up... but if youre holding 4-5 os against his Axsuited... it's only about 60-40 in his favor...I'm super tired but I'll try to post more (in a more organized and coherant manner) later.

[JaysonWeber 0]

Once again Akishore, I enjoyed your post thoroughly... I would add my own advice and views on what you've talked about here but it seems to me you've covered it all!This post should be read by anyone looking to earn money playing poker, especially online poker as it hits on that rather nicely.

[Saint Joel 0]

between this and your omaha guide you should seriously be writing this stuff is books and making money off it, thanks for the free advice/tips tho :-)

[BilliardsBoy 0]

Great post akishore! I love playing cash games in NLHE for the simple reason that its more fun. I play two places: my college and my friends college from back home. All they play are tourney style, and the mood is similar to a morgue. Everyone is so scared of going out first and not making the money. In Philly though, the atmosphere is more relaxed. Everyone at my school is better at poker anyway, so combined with the joking and conversation, the quality of the game is far better. I'd take a cash game over tourney almost any day.

[justblaze 0]

finally, posters sucking up to someone other than smash :)heres my brief anecdotal two cents: stack size is huge for implied odds.a few nights ago, i was playing live 1-2 NL. on the BB, i saw J9o. it was folded to the button who made a raise to 7$. in a limit game, im folding right away. But in NL, i knew the guy would continue betting no matter what. with 150$ in his stack, and me having him covered, i knew i could get his whole stack if i hit it hard. flop came 994 rainbow, i checked he bet 15$. i called. turn was a 10 completing the rainbow. i checked, he went all in, and i took his stack. Several hands later, i had J9 again on the BB, this time the raiser only had 50$ left. i folded. If i hit i was only gonna get another 50$ so it wasnt worth it.Set up plays.players always forget that people remember things. In a 2-4 live NL game a week ago, i flopped K22 holding KK against a loose maniac. I check called him the whole way, and he put his whole stack in on the river with A2. 2 hours later, I had Q10 against the same maniac. Flop was KJ5. he bet, i coldcalled. Turn was another J. normally this would be an easy fold, but i had the guy set up. he put in a big bet, and i coldcalled again. I missed my draw on the river, but he checked this time. I realized he thought i was slowplaying my J. I pushed all in, and he folded his AK face up.

[Absolution 0]

The only thing I would say is that if you have the bankroll for the stakes you are playing at you should take every edge. What you seem to describe though is a situation where you aren't sure enough in your read to estimate your edge either way, so you fold. That sounds fine to me. Anybody can wait for the big edges and take them, the expert players are the ones who can successfully estimate their small edges and take them, even if that means risking their stack. Lucky for us you don't need to be an expert to be profitable.

[KDawgCometh 2]

I'd like to add in this nugget which is a major part of my gameTilt Factorearly on in a session you need to pick out one or two(maybe even three) opponents that can tilt easily if you play "bad" cards against them. You need to build up a bit of a stack beofre you unleash this though, so win small and midsiazed pots and don't show your hands even if you bluff as you need utterly shcok them at a key moment to give you max money, and cause them to constatnly dip into their wallet after that. I will give a hand from a game a few months ago, I had triple implied odds here and was in the small blind with 8 4 , my roomate had A K in middle position and raised to $3( the blinds were .5/1), player X(tilt factor guy I'm aiming for) calls with Q 10 I complete. Now this looks like a dumb play since I'm out of position, but player X is to my right and so almost everyother hand I'm gonna have position on him, not to mention I had noticed that he can get very upset when people beat him with "bad cards" so I felt that for three bucks to win $110(that would be me doubling up and taking what was in the pot) would be worth it to take a look see at the flop and if I hit anything to ake a card off as I knew that it was not just the immediate implied odds, but the implied odds for the ENTIRE NIGHT. yeah, this has to be factored in too especially when you have position on your mark. so the flop came 5 6 J . I checked and there was now $10 in the potI had a gutshot and a backdoor flush, but my implied odds were massive as I knew that I could break both of them and get player X to tilt like the tower of pisa, my roomate bet out $6 trying to steal the pot, I noticed that he didn't like the flop so I figured I could call this(and steal if a blank happened on the turn,or if I hit my draw) provided that player X called which he did, so now with me calling there was $28 in the pot( I had amassed a good stack and was one of the bigger guys so I could take the longshot without too much damage). THen beauty hit on the turn 7 , so now not only do I have the nut straight I have a flush redraw, so I checked trying to induce one of my opponents to bluff at it which player X obliged with a $10 bet, I smooth call and my roomate drops out. on the River another beauty hit Q giving him top pair and me the flush, so this time i check raised, I wanted him to bluff at this again if he was bluffing and if he hit a hand I could break him, and I then pushed in on his $10 bet which he caleed and I proudly flipped up my hand. He then went utterly nuts and was dropping cash to me the rest of the night. I knew that after that I'd have to play tight, but I was rewarded with a $350 profit that night from a $20 buyin just because of that one hand. IN cash games ths type of thing can be done because at worst you are down a little after the hand. I was already up a bit so I knew that this was a good time to take a chance as if I had missed my hand I only lost a couple of dollars, but if I hit this guy would be paying my rent for that month

[TeeSludge 0]

I play live in Atlantic City about 4 days a week. I usually only play Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights because that is when the weakest players are there. In these games a few things are extremely important for me to remember. Patience is first. In most of my sessions, I simply have to win two hands in order to come out a decent winner. Most of these times these tables are extremely loose so I simply make the straightfoward plays and win small pots here and there. I never get too involved with a hand where I have just top pair. I stay away from hands with the one or two other regulars that are usually at the table unless I have a monster. I basically play extremely tight and wait to hit a set, flush or a big hand. If the game has more than the 1 or 2 regulars or is especially tight I will obviously switch my game up. The important thing is for me is to make sure I am not out thinking myself in regards to the other players. Most of them aren't observant enough to realize that I am only playing hands in which I have a dominant advantage. The good regular players know that I don't play the same way when I am involved in a hand with them. My style can be extremely frustrating when I am not getting good cards but patience is key. So in summary:Adapt your game to the type of game you are playing in.Adapt your game each hand to the type of player you are playing against. Being observant and patient are extremely important.

[Smasharoo 0]

Play pocket pairs and Ax suited.Bet a lot of money when you flop a set or complete a nut flush on an unpaired board.Repeat.I'm really going to spend 8 hours doing that some day in a low limit NL room and post all the hands.I'll call it the "Candlebot 2000 NL session"

[TeeSludge 0]

Smash--Do you call pre-flop raises with Ax suited in these games? For instance, you limp in MP with A8s in a 1-2NL game and the button raises to 15 bucks. He has about $200 in front of him and you are sitting with a similar stack. Two other people call and action is to you.

[akishore 0]

Smash--Do you call pre-flop raises with Ax suited in these games? For instance, you limp in MP with A8s in a 1-2NL game and the button raises to 15 bucks. He has about $200 in front of him and you are sitting with a similar stack. Two other people call and action is to you.

i know this question isn't directed to me, but if i can just pitch in my two cents...Axs is IMHO one of the most overrated NLHE hands. in my original post, i said i rarely play it, only when the conditions are right--no raise, late position, multiple limpers before me. i usually won't play it to a raise because it doesn't work in ANY way except a flush. two pair will be a dangerous/dominated two pair, same with trip aces. the only other hand that might be good would be trip x's (whatever your rag is). because of this, Axs sucks to any preflop raise, especially one that's 1/13 of your stack (your example of $15 raise with around $200 stacks).unlike suited connectors, Axs will only hit the flop hard maybe 1/20 times, which is probably a high estimate. i really strongly think it's a leak in both NLHE and limit HE games to play Axs too often, especially when in early/middle position, in small pots, and to raises. heck, i feel much more comfortable raising 78s UTG than i do A8s. i know a lot of people think that because of implied odds, playing Axs is good because you can go for the nut flush, but honestly, you hit that so rarely it's just not worth it IMHO.aseem

[akishore 0]

Play pocket pairs and Ax suited.Bet a lot of money when you flop a set or complete a nut flush on an unpaired board.Repeat.I'm really going to spend 8 hours doing that some day in a low limit NL room and post all the hands.I'll call it the "Candlebot 2000 NL session"

didn't i reference posts like yours in my original post! :-) online that'll work fine, heck, it might even work fine in fish-filled casinos like Tremoney wrote about, but i was talking about a live game with a moderate amount of skill. that strategy will get you nowhere in medium/tough games.aseem

[ArseneLupin3 0]

I only skimmed the article, but i hit ctrl-f in mozilla and searched for 'check-r' and 'checkr.'You only used either word once. Shameful! Shameful!! Otherwise, I liked what I saw.

[justin 0]

hey tremomey, what casino do you play at? i'm at the taj a lot, maybe we've met!

[TeeSludge 0]

Akishore-I completely agree with you on the Ax thing. I only play it in the same positions you specificed. Justin-I play exclusively at the Trop.

[ArseneLupin3 0]

it can be argued that in NLHE cash games, players that show pure aggression will not last very long. a big part of NLHE cash games is having an even temperment, IMHO.

I have to disagree here. Most of the NL players I know with the highest winrates are also the most aggressive. Most good NL players will not let you trap them all that often. The following is as best as I can currently sum up what I feel is the most important part of NL cash strategy---Getting the first bet or first raise in with a high frequency huge because the more often you do it, the more often opponents will overcompensate for your aggression and overvalue their marginal holdings. Your decision is easy at this point. Huge hand: reraise allin because you've read that he's committed himself to showing down once he puts out that raise. Moderate hand or draw: call, fold, or bluff allin. Trash: fold, bluff allin. While the monster bluff may cost you a buyin initially (it may cost less than half a buyin in some games in the long run) what you don't make back from an outdraw will be earned later in the game when your opponents err based on what they've seen.When they raise you, with or without position, you have one monstrous advantage: information. You know that they know you're ultra-aggressive. More often than not, however, they won't know that you are capable of changing gears. You're winning and losing pots without showdowns, you're depriving them of information while learning more about their specific breeds of weakness, how they play position, and what hands they're willing to show down against you.My mind is getting foggy. I think I had more to say, but it's time for some sleep.-adam

[elcapitan19 0]

I'm fairly new to NL hold em. Been playing limit for about 15 years and made the switch in Jan. I don't think I will ever go back! I've been playing a lot online and some in BM casinos, so far I'm at about 120 hours, with my bankroll growing at about $20/hr (btw what is a strong hourly rate for $1-2 NL and how many hours do you think you need to make that number significant?) and learning something new every time I play. I was hoping to spark a little discussion about TPTK hands as these hands seem fairly difficult to play in NL.It seems with these hands you want to protect your cards against any draws on board, but you would like top pair with worse kicker to call (although I know you give him a chance to hit two pair). I often bet the pot with these cards and offer any draws only 2-1 (although I realize implied odds are a factor so maybe it's smarter to overbet the pot? But then you may be pot committing yourself). Rarely will I try and check raise, maybe if the board is completely unconnected I will go for it, or if preflop raiser is on my left. The problem is that using this technique seems to result in a lot of small wins and some big losses. It seems that when you get a caller for that pot sized bet on the flop your decision is a tough one on the turn. It's hard for me to give the player credit when the draw card hits on the turn b/c i assume I was offering to sttep a price on the flop. I probably need to slow down more when draw card hits on turn. But then there are times when trips just calls you down to the river and goes all in. I don't know how you get away from the hand in that situation. If you bet pot on flop and then turn comes a brick, you don't want to give a free card do you? Then you are pot committed on the river unless a really scary card comes.So I guess basically what I am asking is for some insight on how you guys play these cards generally, I think I can do a much better job with these so your input is appreciated. Plus I only talked about situations where you had a caller on the flop but what about when you are looking at a raise?