checking the river w/ the nuts

[Juandastyle 0]

Don't know if anyone's posted about this before, but I wanna get a few perspectives on this strange move.So many times, I've seen people check the river, with their opponent checking behind them, and then showing up the nut flush/straight/boat, whatever it is. I know the logic behind it is to make the other person think they can steal the pot, or bet their weaker hand, and to check raise them. I know, in certain occasions, based on the betting patterns and whatnot, a check raise on the river may be possible, however, I don't see it consistantly working to create the largest profit for your hand.So what do you think, should you always lead out on the river w/ the nuts? Or is it not a bad idea to check it, to induce a bet?

[AndrewBlack 0]

checkraise the turn or fold.

[loogie 115]

There are times when the only bet you will get out of an opponent is a bluff from them. At these moments, it's correct.

[The Sheriff JBJ 0]

Like most poker hands play the opponent not just your cards.If your opponent is agressive and likely to bet on the river if you check then Im checking all day.It can also work later if you have a marginal hand. You check the river. You opponent may not bet as they fear you are sat on the nuts again or a better hand than them.Its easy to stumble through a whole host of scenarios like these. Watch the opponents at your table.However, in NL Holdem, if I had the nuts and on the river and I had to do one or the other Bet or Check for ever more. I would always bet the river. Either half of or the size of the pot.

[hudday48 0]

I think you're gonna get the answer you expect. Its worth it sometimes, if you do it alot then you are giving too much.Check with the nuts when you have an over aggressive opponent who over values hands and like to make river bluffs. Of course this wont work unless he thinks you'll be betting the river with a lot of strong hands as well.So in my opinion its a variation play you use rarely unless you're against a crazy betting machine.Yes its not a clear answer, but I'm too lazy to come up with a better one.

[ForRealDD 0]

Usually the only time I will do this is on a raggedy board when I hold a set, with a busted flush draw possible . They usually bite here...but I usually find if they have intentions of bluffing on the river, they will re-raise a small value bet, so value betting is almost always the best play IMO

[PokerKnight55 0]

It all depends on your opponent, his tendencies, and how the hand was played out before the river.You can't just say to yourself, I think I need to switch it up and try to check raise or slowplay....

[supertouch 0]

i actually had to deal with this a few times last night while playing on UB. The first time i i had AQd and i flopped top pair with the flush draw. The pot was heads up withmy opponent on my immediate left. I checked the flop and the turn and called pot size bets both times. When i made my flush on the river and I check/raised all in and got paid.The second time it happend I flopped two pair and made a boat on the river. Similar betting from the previous hand but after I checked the river so did my opponent. It's a tough situation to be in. I guess in the end there is no one way to answer this question.

[lips24 0]

Wouldn't you want to bet about a third of the pot if you were trying to suck more money out of them. That way they are getting better pot odds and would most likely call?

[VegasBone 0]

I think a lot of it too depends on your own table image. If people think you make larger bets often to push people out of pots, then maybe even a bet beyond reason will be more beneficial to you.....obviously this will only work if the villian caught something halfway decent.Also going with the villian catching something.....if you think you have a good read on him and it looks like he got a significant taste of the river, then I would check.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

IN ORDER TO CHECK THE NUTS ON THE RIVER:you have to have an idea of what your opponent is holding, so you sense that he is on a draw? did he hit or whiff? Some type of read on you opponents hand is very valuable in this situationYou also must have an idea of your opponents play.......Is he aggressive? What has he done in similar situations prior?The combination of these two will help determine if you can check the nuts on the river. You MUST have a fairly accurate idea of your opponents play. Otherwise, just valuebet ..........good things happen when you do this too.

[theresa113 0]

I tried the check thing and rarely do I get someone to bet, even the aggressive player, when I have the nuts. I think you should bet enough to make them want to call or raise. The Sheriff JBJ... wow, long time no see. Glad to see you are back on the forum.

[dereeekho 0]

speaking in terms of NL:value bet to the terms of 2-4 BB.

[turd ferguson 1]

speaking in terms of NL:value bet to the terms of 2-4 BB.

Poor advice if it's a big pot.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

IN ORDER TO CHECK THE NUTS ON THE RIVER:you have to have an idea of what your opponent is holding, so you sense that he is on a draw? did he hit or whiff? Some type of read on you opponents hand is very valuable in this situationYou also must have an idea of your opponents play.......Is he aggressive? What has he done in similar situations prior?The combination of these two will help determine if you can check the nuts on the river. You MUST have a fairly accurate idea of your opponents play. Otherwise, just valuebet ..........good things happen when you do this too.

Also you need to know what your opponent thinks you have, I.e. If you are check calling all bets to river and scare card comes dont expecto be able to then check raise, as your opponent has most likely put you on a draw. The best time to cr river is when a backdoor draw has come in or an unlikely out has hit such as a gutshot

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

IN ORDER TO CHECK THE NUTS ON THE RIVER:you have to have an idea of what your opponent is holding, so you sense that he is on a draw? did he hit or whiff? Some type of read on you opponents hand is very valuable in this situationYou also must have an idea of your opponents play.......Is he aggressive? What has he done in similar situations prior?The combination of these two will help determine if you can check the nuts on the river. You MUST have a fairly accurate idea of your opponents play. Otherwise, just valuebet ..........good things happen when you do this too.

Also you need to know what your opponent thinks you have, I.e. If you are check calling all bets to river and scare card comes dont expecto be able to then check raise, as your opponent has most likely put you on a draw. The best time to cr river is when a backdoor draw has come in or an unlikely out has hit such as a gutshot

Good pointnice avatar

[vonteego3 0]

I go for the checkraise on the river... if my opponent checks behind me, I muck, because I don't want him to see that I checked the nuts.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

IN ORDER TO CHECK THE NUTS ON THE RIVER:you have to have an idea of what your opponent is holding, so you sense that he is on a draw? did he hit or whiff? Some type of read on you opponents hand is very valuable in this situationYou also must have an idea of your opponents play.......Is he aggressive? What has he done in similar situations prior?The combination of these two will help determine if you can check the nuts on the river. You MUST have a fairly accurate idea of your opponents play. Otherwise, just valuebet ..........good things happen when you do this too.

Also you need to know what your opponent thinks you have, I.e. If you are check calling all bets to river and scare card comes dont expecto be able to then check raise, as your opponent has most likely put you on a draw. The best time to cr river is when a backdoor draw has come in or an unlikely out has hit such as a gutshot

Good pointnice avatar

Thanks. Wish it wasnt so grainy so you could see his coke nose.

[theredpill99 0]

In NL, when you actually have a great hand, there are few times when checking is correct. Don't slowplay like a donk. Betting your full house means your weak and you are liable to get an aggressive player to raise you big . I had AAI raised preflop to $6I got one caller, SB1/2 NLFlop: A T XSB checksI bet $10SB reraises all-in for $115I call immediatelyShe shows QT. Just never know what are people are going to do.

[doublemeup 0]

Don't know if anyone's posted about this before, but I wanna get a few perspectives on this strange move.So many times, I've seen people check the river, with their opponent checking behind them, and then showing up the nut flush/straight/boat, whatever it is. I know the logic behind it is to make the other person think they can steal the pot, or bet their weaker hand, and to check raise them. I know, in certain occasions, based on the betting patterns and whatnot, a check raise on the river may be possible, however, I don't see it consistantly working to create the largest profit for your hand.So what do you think, should you always lead out on the river w/ the nuts? Or is it not a bad idea to check it, to induce a bet?

The only time i'll do this is if i have a complete maniac or maniacs still in the pot and usually i won't do it unless i'm heads-up and i know that theres no way my opponent will call so mine as well give him the opportunity to bluff at the pot.

[custom36 5]

Being hyper-aggressive, people try to check/raise me on the river all the time. Get used to it. I've been able to dissapoint quite a few people.

[Tantalar 0]

I hate to reveal the strength of my hand unless my opponent is drawing to something like a flush draw, or 2 overcards. If I check raise im representing strength. The way I play the river is as follows.If I am against a loose agressive player Ill rarely raise with the nuts. If im against an intelligent player, and my image is tight agressive, I might overbet the pot if I think they will call. It depends on my stack really. if I have a lot of chips and dont really need them I will most likely try a risky play like overbetting. It either works and I make a ton or I dont make a lot but still win the hand. Plus, idf the big stack is betting into you, an arguement can be made that he is trying to bully you around. Of course it depends on who your against. You might want to push a shorty all in hoping that they will just be pot commited. You wont want to push someone all in who has a lot of chips cause they will most likely fold. Now the most important part ofplaying the river is this. If you arent sure that you have the best hand and your opponent checks to you just check. Why bet? Theres no reason to risk it if you dont think you have a very strong hand. After all, more often than not, they are just going to check raise you. and when you raise, it gives your opponent more optioons. He can now raise you all in, or call with th ebets hand. You wont make anything more from him if he has junk, so you shouldnt bet the river unless your 1)positive you can bluff your opponent, or 2) you know that you have the best hand, and you know he will call. Otherwise, your risking chips that you shouldnt risk. Honostly, how often do you have top pair and the 3rd spade comes out on the river, and your opponent checks and you raise, and he re raises you a ton? Plenty of times im sure. I never bet the river unless im sure about the above 2 things I mentioned.