my bustout hand at the wsop main event

[dscoot 0]

day two (day four actually but round two)early in dayim gonna give u my thought strategy for every play except the last decisionu have 33k in chips -- blinds of 300/600 antes of 50playing a real tight game, even tho its early in day, got the vibe the table knows im tight. heck, nearly everyone at the table is tight. played one hand in the first 20. Aj from middle position, first one in the pot, tripled the blind, took it down. now u look down to see A10-off under the gun. you like to play flops and are confident in your post flop play. therefore, you never muck this hand under the gun. i will always at least limp here. however, i realize my table image, and decide i can probably get away with an utg raise, and represent a hand a little stronger than ace ten off. but at the last second, i think to myself, i dont wanna commit too much in case someone behind me wakes up with a hand or reraises with any two cards, cuz im mucking then, so this makes me only double the blind instead of triple the blind. so i bet 1200.as expected , everyone folds, leaving the bb. he takes a while and calls.u have A10 off. there is around 3200 in the pot. flop comes 6-8-10 rainbow. bb checks. u immediately try to make a successful play u made late in day one. {blinds of 600. made it 1600 from near button with ak and no-one in , sb and bb called. flop came k-j-6, and when sb and bb checked to you, u bet 1600 into 5200 pot and gave a week physical vibe, causing a young-gun in the small blind to reraise up to 5k. i brought down the hammer on him and bumped him back another 10k, nearly all my remaining chips. he quickly folded. maybe he had a pair or straight draw, but i really felt my play drew the raise and got me 5k free in chips}so back to the current hand, u decide to pull the same move. act weak and bet weak. however, your brain malfunctions, and u come out betting 2400 into the 3200 pot. this is a bit too big of a bet for the play. anyway, bb takes a bit , looks u over and reraises minimum to 4800. now i got three thoughts about the hand, 1) the play worked and he thinks im weak, so he is trying to set up a steal with nothing2) the play worked and he thinks im weak, so he is trying to steal with bottom pair, middle pair, pair and gutshot, etc.....3) maybe he has a strong hand, and has me beatsince im not sure of whether he is in category 1,2, or 3, i decide to minimum reraise him back. his reaction to this for sure will tell me exactly how strong his hand is. so i bumped it up to 7200. there is around 15,000 in pot and another 2400 to him now. he takes a bit of time, and decides to reraise me again! except this time , he does not minimum reraise, he bumps it 4k more. so, u got 20k left, have already put 10k into the hand, and the pot is around 20k, what do you do? raisecall fold?i think i can guess what the percentages of this poll will be, but i just wanna have ya'll vote just to be sure

[teneight 1]

i will lean towards folding after the FIRST reraise, but after the second reraise, i'm def. folded ASAP. the BB only need 600 more to call your raise pf. the 6 8 10 flop dosen't seem like a dangerous flop but it is when one of the blinds call your small raise . he probably hit a set or two pair, or straight. I think he had the 79s . he would be a donk if he made this play with anything elseteneight

[bleacherbum3 9]

I agree with folding. If not 79s, he has 10-8 or 6-6, I would say.Just my 2 cents

[trumpman84 0]

I would either fold this utg or make a bigger raise that has a chance to take the blinds down. I don't really want to take a flop with ATo...it's one of those hands that you never know quite where you are after the flop unless it hits you hard. If you really went broke with this hand, that's pretty terrible. Big blind made it very very cheap to tell you that he has you beat, but you made it increasingly more expensive. Fold after it gets 4-bet...that should be obvious....4 bet = top pair no goot. Do you really think he is trying to bluff you out of the pot with min-raises? This is even worse given that you said they perceived you as a tight player which means ones of the first things they put you on when you min raise UTG is AA or KK, so this guy isn't giving you 4 bet action with a hand that can't beat AA much less TPTK unless he's a total donk.

[teneight 1]

btw, i hate your PF raise

[Masquerade 0]

If you're trying to exploit your table image whats the point of a min-raise under the gun. Youre pricing in anything reasonable in the BB. And now you're donking off a decent stack with a pair. He must consider the possibility you have a big hand like AA or KK and he's still check-raising you and re-raising. You keep raising "for information", the info comes back that he's got a monster, but you're not listening.

[trumpman84 0]

Also..personally, I wouldn't try "trapping" people by betting small with just top pair in a tournament situation. 1) You price in any kind of draw thats out there and you can bet there are ones with plenty of outs vs one pair on most flops. 2) You end up trapping yourself waaay too much. Let's say you bet small and someone check-raises you. Is he raising you because you seemed weak or is he raising you because he can beat top pair? You don't know, so you probably end up raising again or calling and having no idea what you are up against. 3) If someone check-raises you all in, again you are in the situation as #2, except that this time it's for all your chips..if you are right and you are ahead, I'm thinking they have a good number of outs against top pair and could easily suck out on you, if you are wrong, you are probably drawing dead or at the very most, drawing to 3-5 outs....these are not the types of situations I enjoy putting all my chips in withThe moral of the story is, don't intentionally try to play big pots with one pair, just bet the full pot size and take it down..if everyone folds, you win the pot 100% of the time which is huge in a tournament, if you bet big and still get called or raise, then you can slow waaaay down. Play big pots with big hands, take down small pots uncontested with mediocre hands.

[dscoot 0]

..... If you really went broke with this hand, that's pretty terrible.....

ahh. there is a reason why i have had trouble sleeping since mid-july.

[Loismustdie 0]

Horrid play with a crappy hand- I would never even have seen this flop- having said that, it is a fold- he hit his set.

[mrdannyg 274]

i think its simply too dangerous in a tournament situation to put yourself in a position where you do not have an extremely strong hand and bet such that you expect people to come back over the top of you. because without a strong hand you cannot gauge whether they are coming over the top with a stronger hand or not. I think you only make such a small bet there with 10-10 or 8-8, and even that is risky with the coordinated board and the fact the BB only had to call one bet.all in all, i think a very risky play and i think you outthought yourself into a big problem.good luck next yeardaniel

[kouta43 0]

seriously, what hands can you beat. no move has any intelligence at all. clear fold, unless your looknig to suckout after being a huge dog.

[Petoria 0]

I'm not gonna sugar coat this, I hate your preflop raise, I hate trying to trap with AT on a 68T flop, and I hate min reraising.Your hand isn't strong enough for a preflop raise UTG, I muck this hand almost everytime. Even if you do decide to run something with it, wtf are you doing doubling the blinds. You want to take that pot down preflop, and that most assuredly won't happen, unless the BB is a complete donk.Flop, I think I lead out for the pot, which is pretty much what you did, so that's not horrible, but your reasoning behind it is flawed.After he check raises you, I can understand maybe making a play, but dont min. reraise. That sends the message of weakness, now you can't determine, what your opponent has when he bumps it 4k more. You have to fold then, because it's too expensive to continue with only TPTK.You still wouldnt be in horrible position with respect to the blinds, 30BB's can still make moves. Couldnt be that difficult at a tight table either, to build a stack.

[Guest Anonymous]

the second re-raise def makes this a fold for me ...maybe a set?matt

[PMJackson21 0]

now u look down to see A10-off under the gun.   you like to play flops and are confident in your post flop play.  therefore,  you never muck this hand under the gun.   i will always at least limp here.  

Ignoring your post flop play, this is your first mistake. Playing trash hands UTG just forces you into making tough decisions on the flop. Actually, I'd rather have suited connectors or even suited one gappers then a hand like AT UTG. At least you would have a good idea where you were after the flop. If you do insist on playing that hand UTG, at least make a standard raise. You are giving the BB great odds to call with just about any two and try to hit a big flop and bust you. Also, since you only raised the min and gave him those odds (600 to win 2600 if it was a full table), it's literally impossible to narrow his range of hands down to something reasonable. He could have a set, 79 for a made straight, two pair, etc etc. I understand you were trying to take advantage of your table image, but do it with a hand that won't put you to a tough decision. UTG with a medium ace is not the hand to do it. I'm not sure how you had played up until that point, but you deserved to lose all your chips the way you played that hand (especially if you continued with it after the 2nd re-raise).Patrick

[pokerplayer24 0]

For someone who considers themself a good post flop play this was played terribly. With 8400 committed to the pot this is an unbelievably easy fold once he reraises another 4k

[Guest Anonymous]

now u look down to see A10-off under the gun.   you like to play flops and are confident in your post flop play.  therefore,  you never muck this hand under the gun.   i will always at least limp here.  

Ignoring your post flop play, this is your first mistake. Playing trash hands UTG just forces you into making tough decisions on the flop. Actually, I'd rather suited connectors or even suited one gappers then a hand like AT UTG. At least you would have a good idea where you were after the flop. If you do insist on playing that hand UTG, at least make a standard raise. You are giving the BB great odds to call with just about any two and try to hit a big flop and bust you. Also, since you only raised the min and gave him those odds (600 to win 2600 if it was a full table), it's literally impossible to narrow his range of hands down to something reasonable. He could have a set, 79 for a made straight, two pair, etc etc. I understand you were trying to take advantage of your table image, but do it with a hand that won't put you to a tough decision. UTG with a medium ace is not the hand to do it. I'm not sure how you had played up until that point, but you deserved to lose all your chips the way you played that hand (especially if you continued with it after the 2nd re-raise).PatrickPatrick

that's an excellent point ... utg and or position at all times is something that alot of players unfortunately don't pay enough attention to ...myself included in certin situations ...matt

[Wingmaster05 0]

LOL, i want to know who the F just called the rereaise. wtf is your play after the turn? GUARANTEED fold, becuase you know he is pushing you in. Good luck hitting your few outs...

[benhoug 0]

I absolutely HATE all of this min-raising. I hate min-raising pre-flop.I hate him min-raising your flop bet.I hate min-raising his raise.This is not limit poker.

[ricker 0]

what did he end up having? Personally, I'm leaning toward him flopping a set of sixes...

[Garn 0]

honestly i think that i would call. aren't u getting like 5:1 on your money here?

[AceyDeucy 0]

I am not trying to flame you, but it will come off that way, so bear with me a bit.

playing a real tight game, even tho its early in day, got the vibe the table knows im tight. heck, nearly everyone at the table is tight. played one hand in the first 20. Aj from middle position, first one in the pot, tripled the blind, took it down.now u look down to see A10-off under the gun. you like to play flops and are confident in your post flop play. therefore, you never muck this hand under the gun.

"Playing a real tight game" and "never mucking ATo UTG" are contradictory. The only reason ATo is ever profitable is because of people's predilection for playing Ace-crap. It's just not as strong as it looks.Okay, now the minraise under the gun. Unless you are playing heads-up, this move is terrible because either A) the first call will drag a lot of marginal hands in b/c of pot odds or B) you price the BB in with anything. You really needed to so 3xBB anyway. Plus, ATo of not really a hand you want to get into a flop against a poorly-defined hand with.Now, the BB goes in the tank before calling. Why would he do this? Either A) He is dumb, B) has a hand that reeks so bad he has to talk himself into taking the almost 4-to-1 (22.5-to-6) pot odds, C) he was debating a raise, or D) He was doing the classic "it is so hard to call a raise with my enormous pocket pair" act to make you think his hand was weak. Guess what I think was the case? (by the way, I hope part B illustrates the problem with the 2xBB raise) For the rest of this post, I am assuming he is not an idiot.Your play yesterday was against a different player. Was the bad guy in this hand at your table then? If not, then the fact you did this yesterday is irrelevant. Regardless of whether or not you intended to make a weak lead, what you DID do was make a solid hand-protecting bet. This is the first thing I agree with, and I think that even though you did it inadvertently, you did ultimately make the right play. Of course, you sucessfully undercut the correct play by thinking he would read the bet you thought you were going to make, not the bet you DID make.Once again, the BB tanks and this time minraises. At this point, I am putting him on pocket jacks, at worst. sets are moderately likely, though since I put him on a big hand to begin with, I would say set of 10's or pcoket kings/aces is most likely, again because it seems like he is trying to create doubt in your mind. He may have talked himself to some peculiar middle cards and be holding a straight or two pair (of the two, you should be rooting for two pair for obvious reasons). At this point the moves are either A) flat call and take one off, hoping to improve or catch a free card or B) fold. Personally, I go with A). There is enough money in the pot, and he seems just as trappy as you want to be, so I might get the free card. Instead you re-minraise. Okay, I can see the "I want to know what I'm up against" logic, but since I would already have myself on "beat" I would take the cheaper route and hope I get ahead. Now, you have given your opponent 6-to-1 pot odds. What hand, short of the runner-runner two pair draw can he possibly fold here? Secondly, you have defined your hand ridiculously well. My bet is that he put you solidly on ATo at this point. Now, if the guy KNOWS what you have, and he bumps it 4K in a now-21K pot, what does that sound like to you? (If you said "value bet" you made the RIGHT CALL). At this point I assume my ATo is crushed, and he is either on an overpair or a set. And mull it over like it is a hard decision, pat the table, congratulate him on a nice hand, and muck my cards, blustering about giving up pocket jacks. Every time you asked him if he had a hand, he told you he did. This is either an extraordinarily well-executed bluff, or the monster he's representing. Assuming (again) he is not stupid and does not ridiculously overrate Q-10 in this spot or some such, he has you beat. Given that it is day 2, I rule out stupid until proven otherwise. To me, this whole hand stinks of you being way behind the whole way, and your opponent milking you for chips.

[AceyDeucy 0]

TPTK is the most effective way to bust out of a tournament. Why? Because you are never getting all your chips in against a hand you can beat. No hand worse than TPTK goes all in (except for the bluff). DO NOT GO BROKE ON TOP PAIR TOP KICKER.

[PMJackson21 0]

honestly i think that i would call.  aren't u getting like 5:1 on your money here?

Call, and then do what on the turn? The chips you lose in a tournament are more valuable then the chips you win, and calling here is just giving away chips. There is a good chance that he is either drawing dead to a made straight, or drawing to a runner-runner full house vs a flopped set. The only hand the BB could have that he has any reasonable chance of out drawing would be bottom two pair, and if you start putting everyone on what you hope they have, rather what they most likely have, you will find yourself busted out fairly quickly.Patrick

[AceyDeucy 0]

honestly i think that i would call.  aren't u getting like 5:1 on your money here?

Call, and then do what on the turn? The chips you lose in a tournament are more valuable then the chips you win, and calling here is just giving away chips. There is a good chance that he is either drawing dead to a made straight, or drawing to a runner-runner full house vs a flopped set. The only hand the BB could have that he has any reasonable chance of out drawing would be bottom two pair, and if you start putting everyone on what you hope they have, rather what they most likely have, you will find yourself busted out fairly quickly.Patrick

There is reasonable chance of getting a free card, since the enemy is trappy and out of position. Without the possibility of a free card, it is time to fold. SO, if you are 100% convinced you will get bet at on the turn, you should lay down.

[PMJackson21 0]

honestly i think that i would call.  aren't u getting like 5:1 on your money here?

Call, and then do what on the turn? The chips you lose in a tournament are more valuable then the chips you win, and calling here is just giving away chips. There is a good chance that he is either drawing dead to a made straight, or drawing to a runner-runner full house vs a flopped set. The only hand the BB could have that he has any reasonable chance of out drawing would be bottom two pair, and if you start putting everyone on what you hope they have, rather what they most likely have, you will find yourself busted out fairly quickly.Patrick

There is reasonable chance of getting a free card, since the enemy is trappy and out of position. Without the possibility of a free card, it is time to fold. SO, if you are 100% convinced you will get bet at on the turn, you should lay down.

Yeah, but I doubt after all that action on the flop, his opponent was going to try a check-raise on the turn. The trap had already been sprung, so unless his opponent takes the OP for a complete moron, the time for being tricky is long past. The only thing I can see him checking _possibly_ would be 7-9 for the nut straight (if the turn was a complete rag), and again, only if he thinks the OP is clueless. Like you said in a previous post, the OP's opponent let him know at every juncture that he had a hand, so one would expect him to think that the OP has caught on as well.Putting all that aside, I'm not sure that a free card will do anything for the OP but get him in trouble. Patrick