barry greenstein being arrogant in the wcoop

[Bagtatta 0]

As an experienced Big Game player with 10,000,000+ logged hands with the other big boys under my belt, I'd just like to say there's not a player in the world who could stand up to our skill. Especially online.When you guys are done bickering over $20 MTTs come see me at the $20,000-$40,000. I'm the guy with the hat and the sunglasses. FYI, Doyle was only kidding about Varkonyi. That guy can more than hold his own at the highest stakes.

Is this sarcasm????????????????????????????Is not who r u?????????????????

Yes, it is sarcasm. :-)Sorry if I made it too subtle.

[krup24 0]

Yes, it is sarcasm. :-)Sorry if I made it too subtle.

Lol I suspected that but have been dropping braincells all over lately.

[CaneBrain 95]

No, there is no online player who could sit in the big game RIGHT NOW. Not possible. Again, this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, you guys are VASTLY underrating the skill of the players in the big game. I am sure if you told this to any of the pros who play in the big game, they would be laughing their ass off and inviting the online players to try.

That is a Very Bold StatementJust because a player doesn't have the bankroll to play in the "big game" does mean they don't have the talent.

So basically, you think there are online players who could BEAT Phil Ivey in a majority of the poker games. You think that there are some online players who could consistently beat Barry Greenstein in Stud Hi/Lo. You think there are players who can consistently beat Chau Giang in Omaha H/L. You think there are players who can beat Doyle in Holdem. You think their are online players who can beat all of them at 2-7 Triple Draw. Seriously people, 99.9999999 percent of these "online pros" specialize in No Limit Holdem, or Limit Holdem. Sure, they probably know how to play other games, but the Big Game pros are MASTERS at every single game. EVERY ONE. Yes, an online pro might be able to hang with these guys in Holdem, but that is it, they would go broke playing the other games. I cannot fathom anyone thinking that some online pro could sit down and win money against these pros playing Stud Hi/Lo. Just not gonna happen.

No that is not what anyone is saying. Nobody thinks there are online players who could do these things.What they are saying is that there is a chance there is ONE guy out there who might have what it takes to be a big game player. This is not an unreasonable position to take. Nor is barry's although I think he is being a little close-minded as usual. I find it unlikely that there is not one guy out there who could hold his own in the Big game. But either way is possible. And suggesting that there might be one guy in the whole world who might have what it takes does not mean I am underestimating the skill level of the big game pros. Just thinking about the sheer odds.

[rog 0]

Barry is an arrogant douche. He also said there are only 5 top tier players in the world (BG, Doyle, Giang, Ivey and Reese), and that anyone else would be drawing dead against them. Danniel is drawing dead in the big game? Gus? Barry's a great poker player, but he doesn't really have much respect for other people, and this is what makes him a douche. As far as online players go, I dont know how good Friedman is, but he seems to do well against Ivey and the likes online. I dont know if his game translates to live very well, but I'd think he's probably good enough to take a shot at it.

[InsanityCubed 0]

No, there is no online player who could sit in the big game RIGHT NOW. Not possible. Again, this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, you guys are VASTLY underrating the skill of the players in the big game. I am sure if you told this to any of the pros who play in the big game, they would be laughing their ass off and inviting the online players to try.

No, you are VASTLY underestimating the sheer number of online players out there. If just one of them is a psychology PhD with a 196 IQ who has played gin and bridge his whole life at high levels, and has played poker for a couple years now, he can play in that game. He already knows game theory, probability, etc. I know how skilled all the players in the big game are, but there are other card games out there, and they all play within the same parameters of probability and incomplete information. You are simply thinking within too narrow a field.

[KowboyKoop 0]

About the people saying that no one who plays online has what it takes to play in the big game, I dont know about that. I think some one like Thunder Keller will play in the big game one day.

Hey, in no way am I saying that there are no players who will EVER play in the big game, I am saying that there are no players who, if they had the bankroll, could make money in the big game RIGHT NOW. That is it, I don't care how smart a person is......Barry Greenstein makes money in the big game, so I am going to believe exactly what he says. Yes, someday there will be players who will play in the big game, but that is a while away. Also, everyone talks about Negreanu and Gus Hansen being able to profit in the Big Game...then why aren't they playing there now??? I know they have both played there before...why did they stop??? Why is Hansen playin 100/200 on stars all the time when he could be playing in the Big Game!?!??! Until someone besides the regulars sits down in the big game over the course of a year and comes out ahead.....I will not believe that someone else is capable of doing it just because they are "a genius or are very good at online No Limit Holdem" or whatever reason. If they could do it, they would do it. Until then, no one else can do it, simple as that. Let me ask this?? If Bobby Fischer were to come out and say that there were only three or four players in the world that could hang with him in chess back in his prime, would this come off as arrogant??? No, because it is an absolute fact, he was the undisputed best player in the world in his prime and therefore he would be telling the truth!!! Well, Barry Greenstein plays in THE very toughest poker game on a regular basis and is a winner. There are probably only five or six players in the world today who can say this. Thus, he is one of the best players in the world and therefore can say that noone else is in his league until they play and beat him...I see nothing wrong with this. I think you guys just don't like Barry because of his differences with DN. Well, grow up, he is the best player in the world, face it...

[Adaon 0]

Also, everyone talks about Negreanu and Gus Hansen being able to profit in the Big Game...then why aren't they playing there now??? I know they have both played there before...why did they stop??? Why is Hansen playin 100/200 on stars all the time when he could be playing in the Big Game!?!??!

Well I have not heard of Hansen swearing off the big game forever, but I don't know his reasons for why he would or would not play in it. As for why he would be playing 100/200 on stars instead, probably because he expects to make more money playing at that level, but you would have to ask him that, I'm just guessing.As for Daniel not playing in the big game, that has been well established on this site, search through it if you want more detail, but the short answer is because he works with the Wynn casino, and that's not where the big game is.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Alright, I can understant that about DN, but still, how can you say he is capable of beating the Big Game if he isn't playing in it??? People on here just automatically assume that b/c he has had a lot of success that he would easily be able to sit in the big game and beat it...so whatever. My real problem is people saying that online pros could beat the game. That is bullshit

[Wingmaster05 0]

Sometimes...Arrogance=Being a dick!And barry seems to fall into that category most of the time. You can be confident and not be a douchebag... he hasn't figured that out... in all his godly wisdom.

You took the words out of my mouth, thank you! How many times did he mention he played in the highest limits during the broadcast? Just a few more than referring to his book. He's a smart man, and a seemingly good heart, but the universe definitely revolves around him.

[GodOfEntropy 0]

Alright, I can understant that about DN, but still, how can you say he is capable of beating the Big Game if he isn't playing in it??? People on here just automatically assume that b/c he has had a lot of success that he would easily be able to sit in the big game and beat it...so whatever. My real problem is people saying that online pros could beat the game. That is censored

DN was sitting in at the Big Game before being contracted by the Wynn as their poker ambassador. According to his records (accessible on FCP) he was ahead a respectable amount.

[JaysonWeber 0]

He's not being arrogant. He's correct.

Yup

[JaysonWeber 0]

Had he been a little wiser he should have said something like.. "I've actually seen a lot of players who are scared of the big game but could probobly do pretty well in it... Etc.. Etc.. Etc..."It would be cruel, but +EV

[speedz99 145]

Alright, I can understant that about DN, but still, how can you say he is capable of beating the Big Game if he isn't playing in it??? People on here just automatically assume that b/c he has had a lot of success that he would easily be able to sit in the big game and beat it...so whatever. My real problem is people saying that online pros could beat the game. That is censored

DN was sitting in at the Big Game before being contracted by the Wynn as their poker ambassador. According to his records (accessible on FCP) he was ahead a respectable amount.

He may very well be able to do well in the Big Game...but he didn't play near enough hands to prove it.

[kennyg1966 0]

Isn't being arrogant for the professional athelete/player part of what makes them good..look at Dion Sanders he is as arrogant as they come.....but he was the best in the world at what he did....the list goes on and on..I'm sure if you take the most arrogant athelete/player in the world and asked him to change that would affect his play on the field/table.Now Barry has gained the right to be arrogant untill someone steps up to the poker table and takes it away from him....I not saying it is right.....but it is what makes him good...maybe Daniel has to start being a little arrogant and get his edge back....just my opinion so kiss my ass if you don't like it

[KowboyKoop 0]

Alright, I can understant that about DN, but still, how can you say he is capable of beating the Big Game if he isn't playing in it??? People on here just automatically assume that b/c he has had a lot of success that he would easily be able to sit in the big game and beat it...so whatever. My real problem is people saying that online pros could beat the game. That is censored

DN was sitting in at the Big Game before being contracted by the Wynn as their poker ambassador. According to his records (accessible on FCP) he was ahead a respectable amount.

He may very well be able to do well in the Big Game...but he didn't play near enough hands to prove it.

I agree with both points. I am not saying that it is not possible for DN or any other of the top cash game pros to play in the big game. I do know that DN says he is ahead in the Big Game, but A) how do we really know he was being honest, and B) how many hands/sessions did he play? My point was about strictly online players. So while I am not going to just say "oh yeah, DN would definitely beat the Big Game," I am not going to say that he couldn't do it either. I wish alot of pros would play in the Big Game so that we could really see how good they are, but it might not be very smart to do so unless you are absolutely certain you can win...

[Abbaddabba 0]

To be honest, im not sure what compels anyone to play in "the big game" on days when there aren't any rich business men looking to take a shot at the world's best.Of those who regularly play, none are likely significant dogs. Any edge that any top player has against the rest of the regulars is marginal. I don't know what would possess someone to play those games live against the best of the best if (by their own admission) online players are so far behind the regulars in the big game. True, they dont have stakes comparable to "the big game", but consider that you could probably get in 10 to 20 times as many hands an hour if you're multi tabling a heads up table. The stakes available aren't exactly trivial. They have as high as 1000/2000 stud on fulltilt, and 300/600 games going all around the clock for virtually every game.

[aadams_22 3]

How does speaking his mind making him a douchebag? People asked him questions and he answered them honestly. What is he supposed to say "yeah, there are plenty of online players who are just as good as me and could easily beat Doyle Brunson and Phil Ivey in the big game. Please, this isn't even arrogant, it is the truth.

He doesn't even entertain the idea that someone besides him and like 2 other people could even play in that game.Well guess what? It's a big censored world... and it's pretty sad that he is so close minded to believe that NOBODY could sit down and win at that game. And he's a douche because he absolutely thinks he's the best player in the world. Well until he shows me some numbers of himself, and numbers of everyone else in the world... he's not. He doesn't know what everyone else makes, and can't make judgements on the entire fucking world. His head is so big I can't beleive he doesn't need a second chair at the table for his ego. Although he'd probably just tell us that his ego isn't good enough to play in the big game.

There is a reason that the Big Game is called the Big Game. THAT IS BECAUSE THE VERY VERY VERY BEST POKER PLAYERS PLAY IN IT, AND IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE CAPABLE OF BEATING IT, THEN WHY AREN'T THEY PLAYING IN IT!!!!!!!!!!! IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, I BELIEVE HE WAS ONLY TALKING ABOUT "ONLINE PLAYERS" AND HE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, THERE IS NO WAY ANY OF THE BEST ONLINE PLAYERS COULD SIT WITH THEM AND NOT LOSE WHEN THEY ARE PLAYING 2-7 LOWBALL OR STUD HI-LO OR EVEN REGULAR STUD. IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER FORMS OF POKER THAN NO LIMIT HOLDEM, AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. IF THERE WERE ANY OTHER PLAYERS WHO COULD MASTER EVERY SINGLE GAME THE WAY HE HAS, THEN THEY WOULD ALREADY HAVE BUILT UP THE BANKROLL TO GO PLAY IN THE BIG GAME. THERE ARE NO SUCH PLAYERS ONLINE WHO CAN DO THIS, AND THERE ARE VERY FEW IN THE WORLD WHO CAN AT ALL...I KNOW THAT GREENSTEIN AND NEGREANU HAVE THEIR DIFFERENCES AND THAT GREENSTEIN IS NOT THE MOST POPULAR PLAYER, BUT GO ASK ANY PRO WHO IS ONE OF THE TOP FIVE POKER PLAYERS RIGHT NOW, AND I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT GREENSTEIN WILL BE IN EVERYONE'S LIST, WITH HIM BEING #1 IN MANY OF THEM. LET'S GIVE HIM A LITTLE CREDIT HERE, THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE ALIVE RIGHT NOW THAT ARE EVEN IN HIS LEAGUE....IT ISN'T LIKE HE SAID THAT THERE WILL NEVER EVER BE AN ONLINE PLAYER WHO WILL EVENTUALLY BE GOOD ENOUGH, HE JUST MEANT THAT THERE WAS NONE RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE THOSE ONLINE PLAYERS MAKE A LIVING BY PLAYING WEAKER COMPETITION. IN THE BIG GAME, THERE IS NO WEAK COMPETITION, THEY ARE THE VERY BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD, THUS, THE BIG GAME IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME AN ONLINE MTT FULL OF FISH...SERIOUSLY PEOPLE, COME ON

I guess your "Harvard of the Midwest" didn't teach you how to turn off the caps lock button.

[Wingmaster05 0]

Barry is arrogant, yes to some, or just confident to others. It's all opinion, in case you haven't seen the arguments this past day. but the transition from online play to live, and not to mention, a large hike in stakes, definitely makes it nearly impossible to win in the big game on a consistent basis. A lot of this game is the players strong reading abilities. These guys aren't being randomly aggressive...any weakness, and they pound. You could put a child prodigy in there, 200 IQ and all the poker theory in the world at the tip of his tongue, yet these guys will pick up on his emotions, simply because of the amount they are playing with. If you really want, someone create a barry greenstein pool on whether he is arrogant or confident. or if he is count chocula or who he "claims" to be.either of those should settle any argument.And...Insanity, can you get that avatar with better clarity? Elin has been my background for ages. That lady is going to stay there for awhile.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Yeah, I didn't realize those were on, thanks for pointing that out. Actually, the reason I do it is to see how many nerds I can get to respond by telling me how dumb I am because I typed in ALL CAPS. Oops, I did it again, man, i HaVe GoT tO lEaRn To StOp DoInG tHiS. bUt It Is So FuN....WaNkEr

[Pudge714 0]

I have seen an interview with Howard Lederer and he said that he thinks he could do well in the big game but it just does not appeal to him because he knwos he would need to work very hard for a long time to adapt to the game. Personally I think a lot of pros could win in the big game if given time to adapt. This is what bothers me about Barry because he thinks himself, Phil Ivey, Doyle and Chau Giang are the only people in the world capable of winning the big game. I agree with kurt there is a difference betweeen being confident and being an arrogant prick. Barry is an arrogant prick, personally I hope daniel dominates him in the heads up matches and knocks him down a peg.

[darzog 0]

What I don't understand is why so many people are getting worked up about Mr. Greenstein's opinion. It's an opinion. Agree with it or don't. Whether you agree or not, he is entitled to have it. As are you.

[SuM827 0]

I think Barry should have chosen his words more carefully, what he meant was there is no one playing exclusively online that could play in the big game right now. Barry is smart enough to realize that save Phil Ivey, the regulars in the big game have many years of experience playing live that online players don't have. I don't care if a year online is equal to 10 years live, you can't develop the feel that the regulars in the big game have without years playing in the lower stakes games. also, my theory is that in 3-5 years there won't be a big game. There will be like 20 players that play at the highest stakes (possibly 8k 16K, or 10k 20k) regularly, so you won't have just one table all the time like they've had. It takes time for all of the fishes' money from the microlimits to find it's way into the pockets of the top tier of players :-)

[KowboyKoop 0]

I think Barry should have chosen his words more carefully, what he meant was there is no one playing exclusively online that could play in the big game right now. Barry is smart enough to realize that save Phil Ivey, the regulars in the big game have many years of experience playing live that online players don't have. I don't care if a year online is equal to 10 years live, you can't develop the feel that the regulars in the big game have without years playing in the lower stakes games. also, my theory is that in 3-5 years there won't be a big game. There will be like 20 players that play at the highest stakes (possibly 8k 16K, or 10k 20k) regularly, so you won't have just one table all the time like they've had. It takes time for all of the fishes' money from the microlimits to find it's way into the pockets of the top tier of players :-)

Thank you so much, this is EXACTLY what I have been saying in all my posts, about him talking about only players who play exclusively online. Except when I said it, they told me I was wrong and called me a douchebag, but whatever. Anyways, I think you are exactly right, no online player can hang with him in a mixed cash game right now, while there very likely are some pros who could, but just choose not to....now who those pros are we can't say, because they aren't playing in it, but there certainly are some who can.

[Raidan 0]

comment to Barry: I'm sure there must be players with the ability to make the big game one day.Barry's response: haven't seen it. No way for tournament players to achieve it....can't get good unless you have good opposition.

Two wordsPhil Ivey

[Guest]

I was under the presumption that Phil cut his teeth playing stud cash games in AC. Has he had great tourney success, absolutely. But I thought he was a cash games guy first, his goal seems to be to win as much money as possible playing poker. That would eliminate him in my mind as a tourney specialist.