caught stealing

[HoosierAlum 0]

PP $10+1 tourney, Blinds at T750-1500. Avg Stack around 20k. I have 30k. About 80 players left, ITM.SB has 12k and BB has T9500 after the both post.I have no read on either player in question, only been at table for 1.5 rotations and I haven't seen either player play a pot. I've raised 1 or 2 pots preflop and it was folded to me. Im in CO with 4 4. Folded to me, I make it T42oo. SB calls, BB Jams for 5300 more. Sigh. WTF do I do..............???Ok, lets figure out the odds. Pot= 15200. It is 5300 to me, that is giving me 2.86 to call. I like that. HOWEVER, we have to remember the SB still has to act behind me. SB has 8550 left. Damn, I know this sounds like a fold considering the likelihood that the SB will jam behind me. But I would HATE if the SB pulled a donk move and folded. I've seen PP players make worse plays......so....what do you guys think?

[cbiscuit20 0]

getting almost 3 to 1 you have to call here.

[HoosierAlum 0]

getting almost 3 to 1 you have to call here.

What happens when SB jams? Bah

[BrantC 0]

i agree with biscuit. you gotta take a shot at it. he might have re-raised with A-Q, A-J, etc. But like you said no read on the guy, but I still say call.First post here. Glad to be apart of the FCP army

[copernicus 0]

PP $10+1 tourney, Blinds at T750-1500. Avg Stack around 20k. I have 30k. About 80 players left, ITM.SB has 12k and BB has T9500 after the both post.I have no read on either player in question, only been at table for 1.5 rotations and I haven't seen either player play a pot. I've raised 1 or 2 pots preflop and it was folded to me. Im in CO with 4 4. Folded to me, I make it T42oo. SB calls, BB Jams for 5300 more. Sigh. WTF do I do..............???Ok, lets figure out the odds. Pot= 15200. It is 5300 to me, that is giving me 2.86 to call. I like that. HOWEVER, we have to remember the SB still has to act behind me. SB has 8550 left. Damn, I know this sounds like a fold considering the likelihood that the SB will jam behind me. But I would HATE if the SB pulled a donk move and folded. I've seen PP players make worse plays......so....what do you guys think?

Easy fold here. Youve been effectively squeezed by the BB. Not only do you have the likelihood of being behind at least one of the two hands, with 44 you have the risk of being counterfeited and having one of those AQs that doesnt hit a Q still back in and beat you. Take SB out of the picture and its an easy odds based call.

[gobears 0]

I fold this - 44 in a multiway pot stinks and like you said, it's very likely that SB will jam right behind you. I'd call if SB wasn't around due to pot odds.You'll still have almost 26K in chips (M above 10, Q above average) - you're still in good shape after you fold.

[strategy 4]

I was tooling around with pokerstove and picked some ranges for the SB and BB to do what they did.You - 44 (18%)SB - JJ-77,AQs+ (43.7%)Reasoning here being that's usually a semi-strong hand when you just get a flat-call like this. I think AA-QQ would have pushed. Anybody disagree with the range? BB - 22+, ATs+ (38.3%)Slightly looser. It doesn't take much to make the move he did if he thinks there's a chance the SB will fold.Any suggestions? It seems like a pretty clear fold with those ranges.

[zimmer4141 0]

I think I have to call here. There is a good enough chance that neither of them has an overpair that I have to call. Even if SB calls and one of them has an overpair, I'm getting around 4 to 1 on my call if SB calls, and I have around a 4 to 1 shot to win. If neither of them has an overpair, I have about a 35-40% chance to win, higher if they share one of their cards. If you call, you are not crippled if you lose, and you have a huge stack if you win. Call and gamble here.

[strategy 4]

I think I have to call here. There is a good enough chance that neither of them has an overpair that I have to call. Even if SB calls and one of them has an overpair, I'm getting around 4 to 1 on my call if SB calls, and I have around a 4 to 1 shot to win. If neither of them has an overpair, I have about a 35-40% chance to win, higher if they share one of their cards. If you call, you are not crippled if you lose, and you have a huge stack if you win. Call and gamble here.

Take a look at the range of hands I gave them. What would you change? How can you arbitrarily rule out the chance of an overpair in the SB or BB?

[zimmer4141 0]

I think I have to call here. There is a good enough chance that neither of them has an overpair that I have to call. Even if SB calls and one of them has an overpair, I'm getting around 4 to 1 on my call if SB calls, and I have around a 4 to 1 shot to win. If neither of them has an overpair, I have about a 35-40% chance to win, higher if they share one of their cards. If you call, you are not crippled if you lose, and you have a huge stack if you win. Call and gamble here.

Take a look at the range of hands I gave them. What would you change? How can you arbitrarily rule out the chance of an overpair in the SB or BB?

I can't rule out an overpair in both the SB and BB. I am saying that they don't necessarily have to have an overpair. They are shortstacked to the point where they will be pushing with a lot of hands in hopes to double/triple up. Even if one of them does have an overpair (which is very possible) I still have about a 4 to 1 chance to win and am getting close to 4 to 1 on my money.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Why would anyone want to risk about 50% of their stack with a pair of fours at that stage of the tourney? :?

[kilgoretrout 0]

Reraise all in, you need to maximize the chances that the sb will fold. Maybe it is unlikely that he will go away, but you have to play this hand to the end no matter what so you might as well use your remaining chips to try and accomplish something usefull.

[109suited 0]

Reraise all in, you need to maximize the chances that the sb will fold. Maybe it is unlikely that he will go away,  but you have to play this hand to the end no matter what so you might as well use your remaining chips to try and accomplish something usefull.

ew.

[No_Neck 0]

fold I bet one of them has a pair higher than 4's

[HoosierAlum 0]

fold I bet one of them has a pair higher than 4's

Ahh, if poker were this easy.

[loogie 115]

Easy fold.

[HoosierAlum 0]

Easy fold.

No, It isn't.

[loogie 115]

Easy fold.

No, It isn't.

Against one opponent, you're hoping for a coinflip at best. Against two opponents you are F'd in the A. You need to conserve your chips in this situation. Use them in a better spot. Easy fold IMHO.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I'm tossing it. Not too much worse than getting involved in a 3-way all-in with pocket 4's.

[strategy 4]

Easy fold.

No, It isn't.

It's a fold, regardless of how easy or tough it may be. The only real value in playing a small pair in this situation would be if you were the one putting in the all-in raise. As it stands, it's very bleak for 44.Take it from the guy who advises people to gamble like crazy in tournaments--you need to fold this. You are almost never ahead and will be way behind one or both of them most of the time.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

This is a weird title, BTW. You weren't really "stealing" when you raised.

[HoosierAlum 0]

Easy fold.

No, It isn't.

It's a fold, regardless of how easy or tough it may be. The only real value in playing a small pair in this situation would be if you were the one putting in the all-in raise. As it stands, it's very bleak for 44.Take it from the guy who advises people to gamble like crazy in tournaments--you need to fold this. You are almost never ahead and will be way behind one or both of them most of the time.

I agree, it is a fold. Im just saying, given the price Im being laid, it is not an easy fold. I did eventually fold, and the SB FOLDED!! I was so upset at the sb. If I knew the SB would fold I would have called instantly. I was getting laid much too good of a price. Donkey SB calls off a large portion of his chips, then folds. I really didn't think there was any way the SB would get away from this hand. That is why I laid it down.

[strategy 4]

I agree, it is a fold.  Im just saying, given the price Im being laid, it is not an easy fold.  I did eventually fold, and the SB FOLDED!!  I was so upset at the sb.  If I knew the SB would fold I would have called instantly.  I was getting laid much too good of a price.  Donkey SB calls off a large portion of his chips, then folds.  I really didn't think there was any way the SB would get away from this hand.  That is why I laid it down.

The SB is probably the same guy that's always laughing at me when I am getting 6:1 on a call with 24o from the BB. He's probably also the guy from Happy Gilmore."Nice call, JACKASS"