case ace 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 i'm trying to get a business model together of staking online players. i have one in mind. and will post it shortly when its done. got any ideas though?Edit 4: Get your info in by next week, we start the hand reviews then, first come first serve. i'll post the site when its up. Email ipfmanager@yahoo.com with info, follow the detailed instructions below this update. The following is a bit more info on the program (welcome email).Greetings, If you have any further questions, please direct them here (ipfmanager@yahoo.com)for the time being while the site is being put up.Here is the basic gist,You play with our money, we get 50%.LIMIT GAMES ONLY,You need hand histories that can be emailed to be viewed and analyzed in poker tracker. No exceptions. You need to multitable at least at 2/4 currently, and /or have 30,000 + hands at 3/6 and above. With few exceptions you will start 2 to 4 tabling at 5/10 (Note: even if you send us hand histories for 10/20, you still need to prove yourself at 5/10 while being STAKED.) Your goal is about 2-2.25/100 hands and you must play 20-25 hours a week logging 75+ table hours. After 4-5 weeks your situation will be reevaluated and at that point can cash your winnings (actually you can cash your winnings at any time, it's your money) and now get staked at 10/20, then 15/30, 20/40 and up as long as you are profitable. Obviously you can choose to stay at 5/10 at that point, but this is not the point of the program. You will quickly realize that after a month of 5/10 you can easily have the roll to play 5/10 and do not need us. We want to keep you growing so you can keep us growing. Our perfect player is a (possibly a 2/4) 3/6, 5/10, 10/20 player cashing out consistently. Although they are consistent winners at these levels, the rake of life is too fast and cannot build their bankrolls quick enough to hit 15/30 and above. Our goal is to get you playing at those levels and higher, while you keep the money you earn along the way. Multi-table Tourneys will be freerolled as well, as long as you are profitable. You will play 1 or two a week (they are not mandatory...yet) the buy-in will be between 5 and 10 big bets at the limit you are playing (50$-$100 at 5/10). After the first month again you will be evaluated and if profitable you will be staked 10-20 times the big bet you are playing. (now at 10-20 you will be at 200-400 buy ins) A website will be up shortly where hand histories can be emailed, formal applications can be downloaded, and further info will be posted. Every day it seems to get pushed back further, but this should be swift, as we are gunning to have players in the WCOOP in Sept. We are here to grow with you and if you are winning player this is the beginning of a very profitable relationship. Please feel free to respond to this email with further questions. Thanks,Jordan.IPFTHIRD EDIT:Hello,I'm trying to put all the contacts into one spreadsheet. Please Email IPFmanager@yahoo.com (subject: PROFILE) using the following as a template. I will not share your email with anybody, no mailings execpt for a basic info letter. If you have already sent a PM with this, make sure it is in this format and forward it over to IPFmanager@yahoo.com. Thanks,JordanIPF managerName: john-Email address: dfhdfhf@yahoo.com Location: Washington Age: 26 --Your game of choice and the limits you play, or the games you have hand histories for. LIMIT ONLYI currently play Limit, Pot Limit, and NL Hold 'Em. As for my limits, my hand histories are mostly from lower limits at Party, where I play .5/1 and 1/2 in order to max out on multi-tabling and clear out their monthly bonuses within a few hours. Otherwise I play 3/6 NL at Bodog, 1/2 Limit and 2/4 Limit at Noble. But like I said, my hand histories are for the lower limits. --How many hours you play a week and on what sites. I play about 20 hours per week, but I'm leaving my job shortly and will be playing upwards of 40 hours a week. Poker will be my primary income. I play on Party Poker, Noble, Bodog, and PokerPoker. Planning to play more at GamesGrid as well. --Your average monthly poker income. and real income. Monthly poker income (from the lower limits) is about $xxxx. Real income per month (nonpoker) is about xk. --Breif outline of your poker AND real life exp. (include what you do for a -living currently and your qualifacations.) I work for the ghjkghj, working on ghjgh. As for poker, I have been playing winning poker online for the past two years.--Whether your looking to invest or play Play --Why you should be staked. I DO NOT want essays. 50 words OR LESS on why you are a winning player, yet need money. Whether I am staked or not, I plan to invest 3k-4k in order to play poker 3-tabling 5/10 limit Hold 'Em. Your investment by staking me would allow me the opportunity to take that chance at less of a personal risk, and would provide you with what I believe to be a reasonably safe investment. As I mentioned in my previous PM, between my winnings and bonus clearing, I believe this would be a profitable endeavour for both parties. Thank you for your time, johnEDIT:PLEASE READ VERY CAREFULLY. THOSE WHO CAN'T FOLLOW DIRECTIONS CAN'T BE STAKEDAs for all the PMs: If you have already sent me one. please send another BRIEF PM with:-Email address, location, age.-Your game of choice and the limits you play, or the games you have hand histories for.- How many hours you play a week and on what sites.-Your average monthly poker income. and real income.-Breif outline of your poker AND real life exp. (include what you do for a -living currently and your qualifacations.)-Whether your looking to invest or play-Why you should be staked. I DO NOT want essays. 50 words OR LESS on why you are a winning player, yet need money. Link to post Share on other sites
hoosierAKs 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Explain what you mean by business model... do you mean how each indidvidual contract with each player should work? (i.e. you stake $X to play Y games, for Z% of profit)...or are you actually looking to get into such things as advertising, etc... Link to post Share on other sites
mcpickl 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 i'll take free money.whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Link to post Share on other sites
Don Giovanni 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 how much are you willing to put up to stake someone? Link to post Share on other sites
Governator 54 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 You can stake me in the Friday July 29th Freeroll with Daniel... oh wait its free Hiiiiieooooooohhhh! Link to post Share on other sites
fryer98 30 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Medium-Well please... Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Medium-Well please...medium well?????wow....what a waste of a steak......rare or medium rare tops....ok, im hungry now.. Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 Explain what you mean by business model... do you mean how each indidvidual contract with each player should work? (i.e. you stake $X to play Y games, for Z% of profit)...or are you actually looking to get into such things as advertising, etc...pool of investors, staking a pool of players will smooth the investors risk. what is a good roi for them and the players? yeah, there is no overhead except the servicing fee of the company, meaning its gonna be done through networking and not advertisingi already have it in mind but i wanna get some input from both ends... that sounded weird :shock: ps. it's all gonna be limit cash games 2bb / 100 hands Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 how much are you willing to put up to stake someone?probably no more than for 5/10----10/20. with out really showing return Link to post Share on other sites
happyjuggler0 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 i'm trying to get a business model together of staking online players. i have one in mind. and will post it shortly when its done. got any ideas though?Find someone on coke and stake them. They have an unfair advantage and you will be rich in no time. Link to post Share on other sites
pipes42 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 what type of winning players need staking for those limits???Honestly a lot of my friends at school offer to 'stake' me for small % and it's def not worth it since I can generate my own br quickly and profit 100%, the only players that need staking and are good would want to be playing 30/60 and higher I assume, since a 1 BB/100 there is 6 times the 5/10 game and then even giving up 50% of your profit it is still a better deal for player and staker. (even if you avg 2BB at the 5/10 game still better to give up % and make only 1BB at 30/60, the higher the better of course, lol unless u lose)But I would think a good plan would be to let them play the 5/10 10/20 games and if they show a profit keep moving them up levels and providing them w/ the br I guess. You're basing this on short term results of course, that is where you take the risk, but if you tried to base it on long term results then being a staker is meaningless to them b/c they could have increased their own br's for the bigger game. Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 what type of winning players need staking for those limits???Honestly a lot of my friends at school offer to 'stake' me for small % and it's def not worth it since I can generate my own br quickly and profit 100%, the only players that need staking and are good would want to be playing 30/60 and higher I assume, since a 1 BB/100 there is 6 times the 5/10 game and then even giving up 50% of your profit it is still a better deal for player and staker. (even if you avg 2BB at the 5/10 game still better to give up % and make only 1BB at 30/60, the higher the better of course, lol unless u lose)But I would think a good plan would be to let them play the 5/10 10/20 games and if they show a profit keep moving them up levels and providing them w/ the br I guess. You're basing this on short term results of course, that is where you take the risk, but if you tried to base it on long term results then being a staker is meaningless to them b/c they could have increased their own br's for the bigger game.that's in considerations. the turn time per player at 2 /bb an hour at 20/hrs per week is 6 weeks before they have they're own roll or step up. Which i why i think the house will clean up, the investors are in it for the long run, the players for short.my basic question is how can it ethically be done? Link to post Share on other sites
greatwhite 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Waste your time staking people, I'll just refer them. I do that for party pokerers and pacific pokerers all the time. Link to post Share on other sites
Don Giovanni 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 how much are you willing to put up to stake someone?probably no more than for 5/10----10/20. with out really showing returnwell hell, ill take a 5-10 stake. but i guess your not just gonna hand the money out to anyone. are you gonna interview possible players or somethin Link to post Share on other sites
pipes42 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 you know how tight this operation would have to be run?unless you know the people personally I would see a major issue with trust.. unless you plan on it being so profitable that you can afford to lose a few of the player's br's when they run a good scam (i.e dumping their rolls to a 3rd party and then taking that money which looks like they lost it... and plenty of other ways)..but as far as picking players you could probably scour the 2/4 games and such for players that have awesome PT stats but for some reason dont move up. then present them with a 300-500bb roll, 4 tabling 1kBB? or u dont give them this all at once, but it is their virtual roll.--give them the stats that easily show its better for them to give up say 25% of their winning at the high level than to win 100% of their stuff at their previous limits.you could do this for each level, 5/10 players into 15/30, and so on, hey not a bad idea... i mightttt......anyways, staking is not new, ie sheets with the crew and so on, but maybe online staking is... but beware , greenstein says this is a hard thing to do, Ted Forrest best stud H/L player in world i guess has a huge leak according to barry.--staking losing players !!! (pretty personal for barry to reveal) Link to post Share on other sites
poguemahone68 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 A friend of mine played Pai Gow for a corporation. He got an hourly wage, not sure the amount though. He worked an 8 hour shift, generally 5 days a week. He was given a few days off once for losing a good amount. Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 how much are you willing to put up to stake someone?probably no more than for 5/10----10/20. with out really showing returnwell hell, ill take a 5-10 stake. but i guess your not just gonna hand the money out to anyone. are you gonna interview possible players or somethinit would be a 6 week assignment to start, 20-40 hours a week hours a weeki have a model i want to expand to but i don't how to do it ethically (or legally) with accounts and trust people, with out starting a poker room myself. i was just looking for staking stories too Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 i got some email's about poker tracker info and yeah tha's a great start, feel free to pm me about investing and playing. Link to post Share on other sites
greatwhite 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I tried to refer people and had a few, but advertised on 2+2 that I would refer people and was banned. If refering people is a problem then staking will be. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
pipes42 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I tried to refer people and had a few, but advertised on 2+2 that I would refer people and was banned. If refering people is a problem then staking will be. Good luck!Huh, refering is a problem b/c that forum (2+2) tries to stay ad free in the content sections, and keep the referrals in the section call advertising. Skalansky is just really against people posting saying that they are affiliates...but that is just a forum issueHere @ FCP I dont think the mods would do anything, b/c it's nice a widespread problem and is an isolated case...Also if worse comes to worse start your own website and payto advertise and make this thing legit.GL man, I know you won't post everything, but keep us updated if you ever launch this... but u might not show your profit b/c then others would try to emulate if it was going that well Link to post Share on other sites
greatwhite 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Thanks, you interested? If not do you know where I can make a free website with no cost? Link to post Share on other sites
jayboogie 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I think your going to have to need to have some kind of contract written up for a length of time that this staking agreement will happen. Both sides can be screwed here, as the player may start winning, then go on a downswing and have the backer stop staking them when they're losing and the player may quit the agreement when have started running well after previously losing a lot of the backer's money. You also do not know of the player's ability, if they could beat the game for 2 BB per hour, why would they need a stake? You see where I'm going with this?I just don't think it's too smart of an idea, because your going to need to keep amazingly accurate records, there's the trust factor and often the problem with players needing a stake are they're not really all that good in the first place, otherwise they wouldn't need a stake.If your interested in staking someone, the better approach is to know the person personally or if you must do it online, stake players for tournaments. This way it's on a per tournament type of basis or you could have an agreement for a time period. With tournaments, it's a lot less complicated and easy to keep good records and there's a lot of money in them these days as well. Link to post Share on other sites
hoosierAKs 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Agree that tournaments are the least-complicated way to stake a player, however it can be done other ways. (check your PM)Also, you want to make sure that you're not the only one tracking the results CAREFULLY... would be a nice (albeit unncessary) bonus if the person you were dealing with is trustworthy (that's obvious) but also skilled w/ excel or an excel-type program, for obvious reasons.A contract is a good idea, and the only way it wouldn't be necessary is if you're dealing with someone that you have VERY VERY good reason to trust. Contracts can be figured out online, via electronic signature and the like.What you're looking for are players who are killing low-medium limit games/tourneys... these players will have the ideal combo of appreciation for the agreement, and ability to make money off it.again, I've sent you a PM with some contact info... if it's staking stories you want, I got a few on both sides...-hoosier Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Hey im a great online player and im waiting for someone to stake me!Ask anyone here im quite a trustworthy person. Link to post Share on other sites
Don Giovanni 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Hey im a great online player and im waiting for someone to stake me!Ask anyone here im quite a trustworthy person.you moron Link to post Share on other sites
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