i'm staking players more info

[beans-n-icewater 18]

....

[case ace 0]

Oh....well since you know of me.....do you have any custodial positions open?

that's actually what i do.Just looking for a promotion

[AC BillP 0]

OK CaseAce--I'm finally sort of convinced you are serious but just misguided. Every backing idea on the planet I know has failed with just a few exceptions. It works on a tournament series of buyins for a top player that's broke (say TJ lost all his money at craps and the wife cut him off). It will work where a whale wants to play $10,000-$$20,000 big ante and you pool money either heads up, or for all the other players but him. Finally it occasionally works as a written limited liability corporation between 2 people over a month to years time, if the backer holds to money every day. The contact stops when the guy gets way ahead--every time.The only online way it's worked is in Vegas. A guy rents a house with a ton of computers, makes a bunch of accounts, and cheap rooms. There are zillions of busted out winning players that got broke playing too high. You sign them in on your password and they play regular hours. Anytime they get way ahead they can cash money out, but of course you do too. It might work for a 2-3 month contract, but of coarse there is a 99% probability some number of players will dump-off your cash sooner or later to a friend online. You'll spend A LOT of time watching hand histories to catch the guys. If you pay them off after 3 months, sometimes they can stay honest that long if they need a room.

[case ace 0]

OK CaseAce--I'm finally sort of convinced you are serious but just misguided. Every backing idea on the planet I know has failed with just a few exceptions.  It works on a tournament series of buyins for a top player that's broke (say TJ lost all his money at craps and the wife cut him off). It will work where a whale wants to play $10,000-$$20,000 big ante and you pool money either heads up, or for all the other players but him.  Finally it occasionally works as a written limited liability corporation between 2 people over a month to years time, if the backer holds to money every day.  The contact stops when the guy gets way ahead--every time.The only online way it's worked is in Vegas.  A guy rents a house with a ton of computers, makes a bunch of accounts,  and cheap rooms. There are zillions of busted out winning players that got broke playing too high. You sign them in on your password and they play regular hours.  Anytime they get way ahead they can cash money out, but of course you do too.  It might work for a 2-3 month contract, but of coarse there is a 99% probability some number of players will dump-off your cash sooner or later to a friend online.  You'll spend A LOT of time watching hand histories to catch the guys.  If you pay them off after 3 months, sometimes they can stay honest that long if they need a room.

finally, some one who see's my point of view. And yeah, you got the basic idea. 6 week contract btw. CC or Iescrow?

[rbakken2504 0]

First of all, if you are legit, which I don't believe so, this might be the worst idea I've heard of yet. Most players, not all, but most players that need to be staked are not winning players, there are a few winning players i'm sure who have hit a bad string of variance lately, but not enough for you to see a profit. Let's say you stake 200 players, 180 players are bad, and 20 are good, in six months those 180 players have lost money if not all of the stake you gave them, and the winning players will be up, but not enough to cover a 180 losses.Here is the thing, most good players do not need someone to stake them, because they want to keep all the profits to themselves.Maybe if you had a better idea, that MIGHT make you money people wouldnt call you a fraud.

[case ace 0]

First of all, if you are legit, which I don't believe so, this might be the worst idea I've heard of yet. Most players, not all, but most players that need to be staked are not winning players, there are a few winning players i'm sure who have hit a bad string of variance lately, but not enough for you to see a profit. Let's say you stake 200 players, 180 players are bad, and 20 are good, in six months those 180 players have lost money if not all of the stake you gave them, and the winning players will be up, but not enough to cover a 180 losses.Here is the thing, most good players do not need someone to stake them, because they want to keep all the profits to themselves.Maybe if you had a better idea, that MIGHT make you money people wouldnt call you a fraud.

I am really sickj of these accusations. The offer is retracted. Do a google search in two weeks and you can do it on your own. However i ask, please use this space to discuss, how you would protect the investors money without violating the players privacy. Tough line, huh?>

[capthowdy981 0]

Monthly meeting between player and backer?Once the player stops showing, cut him off.Not many people will go to this length though, and that line is a very VERY thin one. Wish you good luck, not many people are honest.

[case ace 0]

Monthly meeting between player and backer?Once the player stops showing, cut him off.Not many people will go to this length though, and that line is a very VERY thin one. Wish you good luck, not many people are honest.

we are thinking even weekly phone calls. we take our money back at the end of every session too. Note this isn't for the security for players playing 5/10. But these will be the same system when they are playing 100/200. So it must be done right the 1st time round.

[case ace 0]

In walking the very fine line to not peee off this forum and the members, here is a post i just thought id share........Thank you all for not passing judgement. And under further consideration I will not extend ANY offers to anyone on this site. The origional thrad was to gain insight from players, and that's the only thing i will do here. The PMs you guys have sent are now useless as Skeptics have increased our exposure to much and I do not want these kind of people in business with me. It seems many people are a lot younger and more inexpirienced then i was thinking and do not want to create any undue animosity from tyring to get to know people. We have players and backers right now and do not need any more personal info; i was extending a generous offer to this forum, however do not want to be thrown under the bus for being a nice guy. Anyways, You will hear of this site soon elsewhere i'm sure, and please discuss when that happens. It is already up and running, and can probably find it with a little research. Anyway, I am on the level, and, assuming that, would love to have DN read the original thread. Doing this right, this will be very profitable and would like to see what he has to say. We still need investors, and i'm sure he would be wise enough to read the contracts and full deal before passing judgement. Investors are looking to gain about 200-300% though. It;s a good program where everyone benefits. Below is the original thread to. Again i would still like to hear input on how to secure the invesors capital, with out breaching the players privacy. And again, i'm not "pitching this" to anyone, the offer will not happen. I would really like opinions though Thanks for your time and responses, greatly appreciated http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...0430&highlight=-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Back to top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- case acePoker Forum Groupie-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joined: 14 Jul 2005Posts: 115 Tue, Jul 19th, 2005 10:47 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PS. This thread created another influx of PM;s to me. Here is the blanket response: In trying to protect the interests of the members of this forum and our investors. No offers will be made to FCP members. You can email ipfmanger@yahoo.com apart from FCP. but otherwise the thread will be used to discuss the program, credits, and the model...I never meant it to be a means to collect info, i was just trying to be nice and give info that i had. I do not want the kind of slander i am getting from some of the younger, less business-orriented posters. Good luck in the future. And anyone who actually knows their a$$ from their elbow should google this in a few weeks and do the research on your own (without letting a 14 year old tell you giving your socail away is bad. ) It obviously not a scam, but some people refuse to see the forest through the trees, and i am not going to justify myself to those people. As always I am still interested in discussing this model, however WITHOUT the intent to do business with anyone here. Sorry for the confusion.

[WorkYou 0]

i really dont think u have much to worry about ace.i think u will get so many emails it will be easy to tell who the serious players are and who is not.i sent u a email. id just like to talk with u and find out where ur at and where i am at.

[case ace 0]

i really dont think u have much to worry about ace.i think u will get so many emails it will be easy to tell who the serious players are and who is not.i sent u a email. id just like to talk with u and find out where ur at and where i am at.

yeah, you'll get a email back , write down questions and put em in the email.

[WorkYou 0]

i did and im bored with nothing to do and just sitting here and ur online too so do u have msn or aim?

[case ace 0]

i did and im bored with nothing to do and just sitting here and ur online too so do u have msn or aim?

yeah, but i'm at work. Again i will not be offering this to people through fcp. See my post a few above this one. Your best bet is email ipfmanager@yahoo.com for basic info, or if you have any specific questions that is where you will get them answered.Thanks thoughPS. This thread created another influx of PM;s to me. Here is the blanket response: In trying to protect the interests of the members of this forum and our investors. No offers will be made to FCP members. You can email ipfmanger@yahoo.com apart from FCP. but otherwise the thread will be used to discuss the program, credits, and the model...I never meant it to be a means to collect info, i was just trying to be nice and give info that i had. I do not want the kind of slander i am getting from some of the younger, less business-orriented posters. Good luck in the future. And anyone who actually knows their a$$ from their elbow should google this in a few weeks and do the research on your own (without letting a 14 year old tell you giving your socail away is bad. ) It obviously not a scam, but some people refuse to see the forest through the trees, and i am not going to justify myself to those people. As always I am still interested in discussing this model, however WITHOUT the intent to do business with anyone here. Sorry for the confusion.

[beans-n-icewater 18]

:cry:

[Mr Monkey 0]

i did and im bored with nothing to do and just sitting here and ur online too so do u have msn or aim?

yeah, but i'm at work. Again i will not be offering this to people through fcp. See my post a few above this one. Your best bet is email ipfmanager@yahoo.com for basic info, or if you have any specific questions that is where you will get them answered.Thanks thoughPS. This thread created another influx of PM;s to me. Here is the blanket response: In trying to protect the interests of the members of this forum and our investors. No offers will be made to FCP members. You can email ipfmanger@yahoo.com apart from FCP. but otherwise the thread will be used to discuss the program, credits, and the model...I never meant it to be a means to collect info, i was just trying to be nice and give info that i had. I do not want the kind of slander i am getting from some of the younger, less business-orriented posters. Good luck in the future. And anyone who actually knows their a$$ from their elbow should google this in a few weeks and do the research on your own (without letting a 14 year old tell you giving your socail away is bad. ) It obviously not a scam, but some people refuse to see the forest through the trees, and i am not going to justify myself to those people. As always I am still interested in discussing this model, however WITHOUT the intent to do business with anyone here. Sorry for the confusion.

maybe its because we have seen many scams before and this looked like one. for every 1 that is legit 99 are scams. giving cc#s and social security numbers to a poster on a forum is generally a bad idea and all some of us were doing is informing people that this might be a scam. maybe its not a scam and if so i do apologize but most of these types of things are and thats why a lot of people were getting mad at u. u have to understand that most people should and will be concerned that this is a scam when they see this type of thing. i hope it is legit and i hope everyone will do well on both sides but i think people deserve to be warned that this could go badly for them.

[case ace 0]

so.....uh.....ill still have a job though.....right?   pleeeeeese? :cry:  :cry:

send an email to ipfmanager@yahoo.com, it's outta my hands. Still looking for posts on investors money vs players privacy. Any thoughts, or compromises?

[case ace 0]

Thanks, and yeah i'll agree with you and say it with you.ANYONE WHO WOULD GIVE THEIR INFO AWAY OVER THIS FORUM WITHOUT SEEING ME, A WEBSITE, OR A BUSINESS UP AND RUNNING, DOES NOT DESERVE TO LIVE. That is why i'm not even gonna bother here.Again, i would really appreciate gunning this thread to my initial intention, (which still has not had one post refrencing it :roll: ). How can you prtect investors money, and players privacy? I wish people would actaully start reading, without typing.

[jefferey 0]

This is not a flame, so hopefully you do not take it this way. However, from what I gather, you are looking to stake players that are showing great success over a large period of time (large sample size via pokertracker). I'm curious why these winning players would want to be staked for the ring games you are looking to stake them for? Is it so they can move to higher limits? If so, I would suspect that their success at lower levels may not necessarily translate into similar success at higher levels. I've seen many 10-20 hold'em players move up to 30-60 hold'em and lose badly as well as many small limit stud players move to 20-40 and suffer the same fate. I'm not sure if this is the norm, or just the small sample size that I've seen. This could also just be a temporary thing until they get used to the flow of the slightly bigger game.If not, why would they want to be staked and have to give up a portion of their winnings?From my experience, there are two times that a strong poker player needs to be staked. The first is to deal with the volatility of high buy-in tournaments on a limited bankroll. The second is when they have some sort of compulsion that results in them blowing their winnings. It doesn't appear you are looking to stake high buy-in tournament players, so I assume you are looking to stake the latter.What am I missing here?Thanks!

[Mr Monkey 0]

How can you prtect investors money, and players privacy? I wish people would actaully start reading, without typing.

i think it will be hard doing this online. players and investors might start not trusting each other and then u will have a problem. u will have the players info so u can maybe track them down if they run with some of the investors money. will the players have the investors names and info? the players are probably going to have to sacrifice a lot privacy in order to show u they are stealing or doing any other thing like that. to be quite honest i would feel comfortable being a player unless their was some way fair way to do this. i guess i cant answer your question but their will be some big hurdles to clear for this to be successful. do the players have to put up any money or any thing before they start to play

[Mr Monkey 0]

This is not a flame, so hopefully you do not take it this way. However, from what I gather, you are looking to stake players that are showing great success over a large period of time (large sample size via pokertracker). I'm curious why these winning players would want to be staked for the ring games you are looking to stake them for? Is it so they can move to higher limits? If so, I would suspect that their success at lower levels may not necessarily translate into similar success at higher levels. I've seen many 10-20 hold'em players move up to 30-60 hold'em and lose badly as well as many small limit stud players move to 20-40 and suffer the same fate. I'm not sure if this is the norm, or just the small sample size that I've seen. This could also just be a temporary thing until they get used to the flow of the slightly bigger game.If not, why would they want to be staked and have to give up a portion of their winnings?From my experience, there are two times that a strong poker player needs to be staked. The first is to deal with the volatility of high buy-in tournaments on a limited bankroll. The second is when they have some sort of compulsion that results in them blowing their winnings. It doesn't appear you are looking to stake high buy-in tournament players, so I assume you are looking to stake the latter.What am I missing here?Thanks!

i have to agree. nobody who is successful playing 3/6 or up is going to give half his profits away. i dont see why anyone would need or want to be staked if they are succesful at this level unless u staked them at 30/60. u can make decent money multitabling 3/6 and 5/10 without the need for a huge bankroll. i think u will be looking at players at 1/2 who want to move up to 3/6 or 5/10 and higher and people who arent that good or players who waste their money. i just dont see how anyone but .50/1 or 1/2 players or unsuccesful 3/6 , 5/10 players are going to want to be staked and have 50% their profits taken away.

[case ace 0]

How can you prtect investors money, and players privacy? I wish people would actaully start reading, without typing.

i think it will be hard doing this online. players and investors might start not trusting each other and then u will have a problem. u will have the players info so u can maybe track them down if they run with some of the investors money. will the players have the investors names and info? the players are probably going to have to sacrifice a lot privacy in order to show u they are stealing or doing any other thing like that. to be quite honest i would feel comfortable being a player unless their was some way fair way to do this. i guess i cant answer your question but their will be some big hurdles to clear for this to be successful. do the players have to put up any money or any thing before they start to play

no player don't need money, and tehy can't lose any either. They need to show 50% of the capital they are staked, wither through credit or liquid,(if your at 5/10 you'll be staked 3000, you need to show 1500) this is to prevent a flood of "one day" emplyees who want to steal from us. We were thinking of doing the cc# form that reason, an Iescrow account could be donw too. You depoist mnoney into a 3rd party bank, we just need to see its there, you could go belly up and withdraw it, it is there so you don't steal from us. Does i escrow sound better? I personally would rather do the cc#, this way you don't avtually have to show cash. We would never charge it unless you take the money and run. What's yer opinion... Bear in mind once this is up and running, assume players trust us, and see we are a legit LLC you can give info too.No the names of the investors will remain unknown, the compnay will be very public though.

[case ace 0]

How can you prtect investors money, and players privacy? I wish people would actaully start reading, without typing.

i think it will be hard doing this online. players and investors might start not trusting each other and then u will have a problem. u will have the players info so u can maybe track them down if they run with some of the investors money. will the players have the investors names and info? the players are probably going to have to sacrifice a lot privacy in order to show u they are stealing or doing any other thing like that. to be quite honest i would feel comfortable being a player unless their was some way fair way to do this. i guess i cant answer your question but their will be some big hurdles to clear for this to be successful. do the players have to put up any money or any thing before they start to play

no player don't need money, and tehy can't lose any either. They need to show 50% of the capital they are staked, wither through credit or liquid,(if your at 5/10 you'll be staked 3000, you need to show 1500) this is to prevent a flood of "one day" emplyees who want to steal from us. We were thinking of doing the cc# form that reason, an Iescrow account could be donw too. You depoist mnoney into a 3rd party bank, we just need to see its there, you could go belly up and withdraw it, it is there so you don't steal from us. Does i escrow sound better? I personally would rather do the cc#, this way you don't avtually have to show cash. We would never charge it unless you take the money and run. What's yer opinion... Bear in mind once this is up and running, assume players trust us, and see we are a legit LLC you can give info too.No the names of the investors will remain unknown, the compnay will be very public though.

[jayboogie 0]

This is not a flame, so hopefully you do not take it this way. However, from what I gather, you are looking to stake players that are showing great success over a large period of time (large sample size via pokertracker). I'm curious why these winning players would want to be staked for the ring games you are looking to stake them for? Is it so they can move to higher limits? If so, I would suspect that their success at lower levels may not necessarily translate into similar success at higher levels. I've seen many 10-20 hold'em players move up to 30-60 hold'em and lose badly as well as many small limit stud players move to 20-40 and suffer the same fate. I'm not sure if this is the norm, or just the small sample size that I've seen. This could also just be a temporary thing until they get used to the flow of the slightly bigger game.If not, why would they want to be staked and have to give up a portion of their winnings?From my experience, there are two times that a strong poker player needs to be staked. The first is to deal with the volatility of high buy-in tournaments on a limited bankroll. The second is when they have some sort of compulsion that results in them blowing their winnings. It doesn't appear you are looking to stake high buy-in tournament players, so I assume you are looking to stake the latter.What am I missing here?Thanks!

good post and my thoughts are exactly the same. Given that most winning online players really do not have temptations such as craps tables, blackjack tables and etc to blow their money away on, winning online players are much more likely to not blow their winnings. I also mentioned earlier that most winning players would only be interested in being staked for high buy-in tournaments, because of the variance involved in them. They don't want to put up the buy-in given that most of the time you'll be out of the money and not turn a profit for the particular tournament.The OP is also looking for players winning at a clip of 2 BB/hr or so, now any player with this kind of success rate over a long period of time is no doubt not going to need a stake. I think the only players who will be interested in this are those who play recreationally or those who are very risk adverse and prefere to not play with their money. I guess if you don't mind making a smaller profit with the stability of knowing you won't go bust, then this might be for you.

[case ace 0]

From my experience, there are two times that a strong poker player needs to be staked. The first is to deal with the volatility of high buy-in tournaments on a limited bankroll. The second is when they have some sort of compulsion that results in them blowing their winnings. It doesn't appear you are looking to stake high buy-in tournament players, so I assume you are looking to stake the latter.What am I missing here?Thanks!i have to agree. nobody who is successful playing 3/6 or up is going to give half his profits away. i dont see why anyone would need or want to be staked if they are succesful at this level unless u staked them at 30/60. u can make decent money multitabling 3/6 and 5/10 without the need for a huge bankroll. i think u will be looking at players at 1/2 who want to move up to 3/6 or 5/10 and higher and people who arent that good or players who waste their money. i just dont see how anyone but .50/1 or 1/2 players or unsuccesful 3/6 , 5/10 players are going to want to be staked and have 50% their profits taken away.Currently we have 3/6 player playing, and they are making about as much as they did playing 3/6. There are 10/20 people too. The goal is, again read the OP, to step up every 6 weeks to a higher level. We want to take you from 5/10 up to 50/100. That is profitable, correct?

[case ace 0]

Currently we have 3/6 player playing, and they are making about as much as they did playing 3/6. There are 10/20 people too. Next month we start a few even at 20/40 who were playing 3/6 just 3 months ago. The goal is, again read the OP, to step up every 6 weeks to a higher level. We want to take you from 5/10 up to 50/100. That is profitable, correct?