cheating/odds/mechanics?

[DB10-2 0]

so three friends of a friend-guys i didnt really know-came to a home game i go to tonight, where they run a very low buy in tournament of $15 plus 75 mins. allowed rebuys. they sat next to each other (first mistake was not drawing for seating) and were generally not that great at the game (NLHE). there were 6 people, which should have made for a nice friendly game, but some things i thought were off and i want people's thoughts on the following...during the 3-hour freezeout (top two spots paying) the following starting hands happened AA v QQ, AA v KK, AA v 88, and i think i'm forgetting a few. strangely each time such a hand happened, one of these three guys had the best of it and won the hand, usually in big style for a big pot. i mean, the odds of AA v KK are 1 in 22500 or something, as are i suppose AA v QQ, but they both happened in the same night? the guy who dealt at least one of these hands kept shuffling under the table despite clear warnings from the house to keep the cards on the felt. ugly.there was also a pivotal hand. three key players in it, with these starting hands:1. QQ (not one of these three guys, had very recently rebought after busting to one of the three guys on yet another dubious hand)2. AJ (one of these three guys)3. AA (one of these three guys)flop is A J x.QQ checks, other two check.turn comes blank. QQ all in, AJ deliberates, and the third of these three guys, who is not in the hand, PICKS UP THE LIVE DECK and looks at the river card despite everyone who didn't know him telling to ****ing put the deck down even if he is not in the hand, etc etc. he didn't really react or say anything, but he didn't get time, because...needless to say, after this, the person holding QQ, who doesn't know these guys from adam, loses it, freaks out, and demands their recent rebuy money back despite having just moved in while drawing dead (though nobody knew that until after the hand). the person running the game allowed this person out of the game and managed to count their chips back out of the pot all the way to their rebuy, then just removed them from play.what i thought in retrospect is that maybe the QQ and the AJ were meant for two other players, but if there was some stacking, it was off.so. with all this weird shit going on with these three guys and the QQ freakout, what should have happened? i don't want to sound like one of those tinfoil hat "pokerstars is fixed!" types, but this was all very strange.(ps, not to be rude, but "KICK THAT GUY'S ASS!" isn't the sort of feedback i'm looking for here...i mean, who the hell bothers to cheat at a $15 home game with 6 people and one rebuy, right?)

[blinky 0]

he wasnt drawing dead, he was drawing to running queens or running K-10and.. i think you should woop some azz

[DB10-2 0]

he wasnt drawing dead, he was drawing to running queens or running K-10and.. i think you should woop some azz

i think somewhere in there i mentioned the turn was a blank. lemme edit and make it more clear.

[blinky 0]

he wasnt drawing dead, he was drawing to running queens or running K-10and.. i think you should woop some azz

i think somewhere in there i mentioned the turn was a blank. lemme edit and make it more clear.

ur right!im dumb

[Petoria 0]

Quote DB10-2: the odds of AA v KK are 1 in 22500 or something, as are i suppose AA v QQ, but they both happened in the same night? the guy who dealt at least one of these hands kept shuffling under the table despite clear warnings from the house to keep the cards on the felt. ugly. Wow, this is the worst calculation ever. I wish i had the strength at 6 am to actually run you the numbers. Just to give you an idea of how common it actually is, the example for a 10 handed table is if one person has KK there is a 4% chance that AA is there. If someone has QQ, there is an 8% chance of a higher PP. For a 6 handed table, i guess we can approximate your odds to be around 2%. Where's akishore when you need him. I'm sure he could whip the probability off in a minute half asleep.

[DB10-2 0]

Quote DB10-2: the odds of AA v KK are 1 in 22500 or something, as are i suppose AA v QQ, but they both happened in the same night? the guy who dealt at least one of these hands kept shuffling under the table despite clear warnings from the house to keep the cards on the felt. ugly. Wow, this is the worst calculation ever. I wish i had the strength at 6 am to actually run you the numbers. Just to give you an idea of how common it actually is, the example for a 10 handed table is if one person has KK there is a 4% chance that AA is there. If someone has QQ, there is an 8% chance of a higher PP. For a 6 handed table, i guess we can approximate your odds to be around 2%. Where's akishore when you need him. I'm sure he could whip the probability off in a minute half asleep.

i could easily be wrong. i got that off some web site when i got home rather than calculating it myself. it does seem a bit high, doesn't it?[edit]update: i just ran it myself, though lazily, in my head, and i think it's 4% and you're correct though maybe a bit less at a 6-handed table.that aside, what about the rest of it?

[21gambit 0]

laymans math here. You get aces 1 out of 221 hands, if you have kings thats 2 percent of the deck thats out, so the possibility of aces increases a tiny fraction for everyone else. That may be taking it a bit too far, just think about how many players are at your table 9, not including yourself? 9/221 chance of aces.Just a shot in the dark herebtw, I had aces vs kings twice today, once in a MTT and once in a cash game, it happens more often than most think

[mplv 0]

i wouldnt even get dressed to leave the house for a 15 dollar 6 man sng.

[21gambit 0]

youd just play naked? that would be a bit uncomfortable.

[DB10-2 0]

i wouldnt even get dressed to leave the house for a 15 dollar 6 man sng.

yes, good for you. i don't play poker to put food on the table; sometimes i play to socialize and have fun.i love how despite clearly worded questions in that post i get needless shit commentary like this.we've settled the odds of KK v AA. we know mplv wouldnt trouble himself with a $15 buy in game. great. peachy.wtf?

[21gambit 0]

I wipe my ass with 15 dollars, 17, if Ive had chilli

[Canada 0]

You avoid all these 'problems' and suspicions by shuffling/dealing properly.1) get or make a cut card - the plastic 'card' that Blackjack dealers use to insert into the shoe indicating the 'end of the deck'. If you can't get one, make one by taping/gluing 2 jokers face to face.2) Use these rules for the shuffle/deal

• The small blind for the next hand shuffles and gives the deck to the cutoff.The cutoff cuts the deck (cutting at least 10 cards in) placing the top half onto the cutcard.The dealer takes the bottom half of the cut deck and places it on the top half and deals.
  • This way you have 3 people involved making it very hard to stack the deck and with the cutcard on the bottom, the bottom card is never exposed and nobody can deal from the bottom of the deck.Once you've done it a couple of times it is very easy to work with...EDIT: Oh and if soomebody rabbits the deck whilst a hand is live, take him into the kitchen and explain the standards you expect of him as you shove his hand down the garbage disposal unit.

[Smasharoo 0]

Stop watching "Rounders"

[Batch 0]

so three friends of a friend-guys i didnt really know-came to a home game i go to tonight, where they run a very low buy in tournament of $15 plus 75 mins. allowed rebuys. they sat next to each other (first mistake was not drawing for seating) and were generally not that great at the game (NLHE). there were 6 people, which should have made for a nice friendly game, but some things i thought were off and i want people's thoughts on the following...during the 3-hour freezeout (top two spots paying) the following starting hands happened AA v QQ, AA v KK, AA v 88, and i think i'm forgetting a few. strangely each time such a hand happened, one of these three guys had the best of it and won the hand, usually in big style for a big pot. i mean, the odds of AA v KK are 1 in 22500 or something, as are i suppose AA v QQ, but they both happened in the same night? the guy who dealt at least one of these hands kept shuffling under the table despite clear warnings from the house to keep the cards on the felt. ugly.there was also a pivotal hand. three key players in it, with these starting hands:1. QQ (not one of these three guys, had very recently rebought after busting to one of the three guys on yet another dubious hand)2. AJ (one of these three guys)3. AA (one of these three guys)flop is A J x.QQ checks, other two check.turn comes blank. QQ all in, AJ deliberates, and the third of these three guys, who is not in the hand, PICKS UP THE LIVE DECK and looks at the river card despite everyone who didn't know him telling to censored put the deck down even if he is not in the hand, etc etc. he didn't really react or say anything, but he didn't get time, because...needless to say, after this, the person holding QQ, who doesn't know these guys from adam, loses it, freaks out, and demands their recent rebuy money back despite having just moved in while drawing dead (though nobody knew that until after the hand). the person running the game allowed this person out of the game and managed to count their chips back out of the pot all the way to their rebuy, then just removed them from play.what i thought in retrospect is that maybe the QQ and the AJ were meant for two other players, but if there was some stacking, it was off.so. with all this weird censored going on with these three guys and the QQ freakout, what should have happened? i don't want to sound like one of those tinfoil hat "pokerstars is fixed!" types, but this was all very strange.(ps, not to be rude, but "KICK THAT GUY'S ASS!" isn't the sort of feedback i'm looking for here...i mean, who the hell bothers to cheat at a $15 home game with 6 people and one rebuy, right?)

Why did you keep letting them deal under the table

[thib82 0]

why would you let new guys to your home shuffle cards under the table. what kind of excuse could he possibly use for doing that. after the first time that should have been it. second time he is gone. dont be embarassed to say something to the guy. he has to understand that if a stanger was playing at his home game, he wouldnt be comfortable with shuffling cards under the table.

[EVILGENIUS 0]

Real easy. First time he removes the deck from sight you warn him! Second time=no longer able to dealanyone messes with a live deck during a decision=out of game(to easy to have a prearranged signal like saying "whats wrong with that?" to indicate its all good)RANDOM SEATING

[SAM_Hard8 50]

why would you let new guys to your home shuffle cards under the table. what kind of excuse could he possibly use for doing that. after the first time that should have been it. second time he is gone. dont be embarassed to say something to the guy. he has to understand that if a stanger was playing at his home game, he wouldnt be comfortable with shuffling cards under the table.

Exactly right. In our game he would have been made to re-shuffle the cards above the table before dealing. If he couldnt then someone would suffle for him.The guy who peaked at the live deck would have been DQ on the spot.Just because it is a friendly game doesn't mean you don't enforse the rules.

[EVILGENIUS 0]

Grow some balls...Your game, your rules...If you do not like it then don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out...Post your rules and and new player must read them so there are no misunderstandings.

[mzdadoc 0]

I have home games as much as the wife will allow and I stay pretty structured.I invite my usual band of friends and if they ask about more friends I ask them directly will you speak for them and back them as a person. If they do I say OK. I use house rules.... I own the house I make the rules!!!!! One time I had my teenage daughter deal (a sorta father daughter thing) and I told everyone no swearing tonite....Period! I told them before the game started I will take a couple of your chips and put them into the pot for each infraction. My games are low limits and about having fun and ending up with a little money and some good stories... One Time I took a game altering pot off a friend where I missed my straight and I announced it to him as I turned up my cards. He studied my cards and his and the board then mucked his hand faced down into the pile of cards. A split second later he said "You said you missed your straight? I said yes and he said crap I made mine!" As I scooped the pot I explained that's why you don't muck cards face down heads up! I ended up letting him win the tourney because as I said it's about fun and to me friends are more important then money. He learned his lesson and I didn't want him to leave with a bad taste for my games... He never even realized I took a fall. My other neighbor spotted it right away but he wouldn't ever say anything cuz he knew why I did it.Sorry for the long post.The short of it is "The house makes the rules and you stick to them or the offenders leave!!!!"Shannon

[DB10-2 0]

Grow some balls...Your game, your rules...If you do not like it then don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out...Post your rules and and new player must read them so there are no misunderstandings.

to be clear. wasn't my game. i should probably have spoken up more, though.

[Nikki_N 17]

Whatever was going on was obviously inappropriate. If I were you, those guys would not be allowed back in my house. Another solution for the future would be to find someone willing to sit out that night to deal the tournament. Watch the dealers in casinos and do it that way.

[mzdadoc 0]

If it wasn't your game you should have pulled the host aside and told him you wanted to leave and why and if it's not too far in the tourney try and get your money back.One of my friends caught one of my neighbors and his wife sorta cheating and I put a stop to it right away. Wasn't totally cheating at all but my friend felt cheated and that was enough....Shannon

[Live4Soccer 0]

The minute he dealt below the deck, I would have warned the guy and if he did it again - popped him in his grill. I don't care if it's a .50/$1 or a $200/$400 game, cheating is freekin cheating.....leave that stuff to the politicians and CEO's.....keep it the hell out poker.....

[DB10-2 0]

If it wasn't your game you should have pulled the host aside and told him you wanted to leave and why and if it's not too far in the tourney try and get your money back.One of my friends caught one of my neighbors and his wife sorta cheating and I put a stop to it right away. Wasn't totally cheating at all but my friend felt cheated and that was enough....Shannon

yeah, like i said, they weren't otherwise very good. maybe they were just a bunch of novice dipshits. i ended up cashing, then wiped my ass with my winnings like some of the other posters like to do.