serge 904 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 $15 minimum wage and free post secondary education would work...it's worked other places. I wonder how much money is currently spent on assistance to those making minimum wage? I wonder how much money is spent helping those who can't afford an education? That's a really good point. I'm in favor of $15 minimum wage and free education obviously. However at what cost? If I'm a middle class family working hard why should I pay for people that are too lazy to work or get an education? Obviously there are people who can't work because of disabilities, illnesses and situations beyond their control. However it's really easy to scam welfare in this country. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The idea isn't to raise taxes across the board, it's to be smarter in allocating the money that is there, while also more heavily taxing the very richest people. The problem is, the very richest people have all the power, and that is where the nonsense message of "why should a middle class family have to pay for people who are too lazy to work" comes from, even if it has no bearing in actual reality. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The idea isn't to raise taxes across the board, it's to be smarter in allocating the money that is there, while also more heavily taxing the very richest people. The problem is, the very richest people have all the power, and that is where the nonsense message of "why should a middle class family have to pay for people who are too lazy to work" comes from, even if it has no bearing in actual reality. again logically it makes sense...but its very difficult especially in the most diverse country in the world... A policy that makes sense in Manhattan is very foreign to a farmer in Iowa. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 $15 minimum wage and free post secondary education would work...it's worked other places. I wonder how much money is currently spent on assistance to those making minimum wage? I wonder how much money is spent helping those who can't afford an education? Same can be said for homelessness. Studies keep coming out that say it would be far more cost effective to just flat out permanently house the homeless rather than all the bandaid policies that treat the symptoms, not the root cause. Same idea why a guaranteed basic income concept is starting to make its way into policy circles. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Same can be said for homelessness. Studies keep coming out that say it would be far more cost effective to just flat out permanently house the homeless rather than all the bandaid policies that treat the symptoms, not the root cause. Same idea why a guaranteed basic income concept is starting to make its way into policy circles. So communism is a good thing? Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 what Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So communism is a good thing? throwing around silly terms like that doesn't help 1 Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Lot of the policies the Democrats propose are basically ridiculous when you try to implement them. To the uneducated a $15 minimum wage and free post secondary education might seem awesome, but in practice it's impossible and wouldn't work economically. It's a pipe dream that gets sold by socialists. If you are American and happy with the 7 years of Obama then vote for Clinton. Obamacare has been a disaster , terrorists are having their way because the President for a lack of a better word is a wuss. The gun shootings are getting worse with no proper policy to combat them. In the words of Donald we need to make America great again and that's only possible with a conservative in power. Umm statistically gun violence is down Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 shhh, that doesn't fit into the story that they are trying to sell. I'm just shocked that otherwise intelligent people are willing to eat this stuff up apparently. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 throwing around silly terms like that doesn't help Communism is an extreme form of socialism..Its a great concept and if you study the roots of it , it make a lot of sense..However in practice it doesnt work. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 and Socialism is an extreme form of what Sanders is promoting. You are making a giant leap. Democratic socialism does work in practice, and in theory. Whether it will work in the United States is up for debate, but it works in many other very successful countries. Countries with happier, healthier, and safer citizens than the UNited States currently. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Doesn't work for certain people is not the same as doesn't work. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Lol Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Serge: Sanders supporters are uneducated! Serge: posts a bunch of nonsense republican rhetoric everyone else: tries to have intelligent discussion Serge: Communism! everyone else: uhh, not really serge.. more intelligent discussion follows. Serge: Nazis! Hitler! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Serge, I'm curious, do you disagree with that quote or do you disagree with it because Hitler allegedly said it? Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Serge, I'm curious, do you disagree with that quote or do you disagree with it because Hitler allegedly said it? A Serge: Sanders supporters are uneducated! Serge: posts a bunch of nonsense republican rhetoric everyone else: tries to have intelligent discussion Serge: Communism! everyone else: uhh, not really serge.. more intelligent discussion follows. Serge: Nazis! Hitler! When a conservative is thrown in a room full of cooky liberals this is what happens..Not that you are all cooky..but everyone has their opinions...To each their own. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Am I a Liberal? I don't know. I think such labels suck. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Serge, I'm curious, do you disagree with that quote or do you disagree with it because Hitler allegedly said it? Well I disagree with it, since I am not a socialist..But the fact that the most dangerous man in history believed it says something.. I respect people like Steve when he says he prefers to put people in power that will help his family...If extreme socialism is going to help some , doesnt mean its the right policy... I think i brought this up before, I visited Armenia after communism was abolished and they gained independence...A lot of people werent happy with democracy( even the corruption was rampant especially early on), they prefered communism when they were all fed and had some money to spend on essentials..However I think in the long run for a prosperous Armenia a capitalistic democratic system is much better for the greater good. Universal health care is a great thing...If you are poor.... The health care system in the US is much better than Canada for the people that can afford it... The people I talk to here( and I talk to middle class people and not those on welfare , because those are the people I m in contact with everyday) are covered much better than I was in Canada under universal health care... They may pay for it directly as opposed to indirectly, but at the end what does it matter how its paid for... If that health care is coming from higher income, property and goods and services tax, how does that make it better ?? Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Am I a Liberal? I don't know. I think such labels suck. I think you are right...I consider myself a conservative now, as I fall in line with a lot of the policies that they believe in.. However that doesnt mean I have to be against abortion, gay marriage and other hard core right wing ideologies. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm a Habs fan, but I wouldn't disagree with someone who said they were playing like shit...even if it was a Leafs fan. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 There are good reasons to promote extreme capitalism and/or fiscal conservatism. Serge hasn't given any of those, but I'm sure all us liberals will admit there is plenty of room for debate in fiscal and economic policies. Unfortunately, that isn't what any of the Republican party is debating. They're debating who can hate ISIS the most, who can hate gays the most, who can give Christians the most freedom while denying basic rights to people who worship other religions. Their tax plans can be summed up in one sentence. Guns, taxes, economy, foreign affairs, the environment...these are political issues, and you'll barely hear a peep about them from Cruz, Trump or Carson. I know extremism is going to be more typical of a primary than an election, but I think is telling that all we have discussed before today is whether certain policies pass even the most basic tests of ethics and the Constitution, but when we actually start discussing Democrats, we're actually discussing current issues. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Serge, stop saying "extreme socialism". Nobody is advocating for extreme socialism. If you want any of us kooks to take you seriously, stop negatively exaggerating every single point we make. Here, read this. It's written at about a 5th grade level, but it at least explains a little bit about the difference between the horror that you see in your brain when you hear the word Socialist, and the actual reality of what socialism means in the context of capitalist country like the USA or Canada. http://qz.com/534368/if-elected-bernie-sanders-wouldnt-be-americas-first-socialist-president/ Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Saw a great quote on twitter. Paraphrased a bit but re: Ted Cruz. "America is the only country in the world where a Canadian born latino can re-invent himself as an immigrant hating white supremacist. " 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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