Detroit Real Estate Prices?

[digitalmonkey 929]

Can someone please talk about Black Jews?

[CaneBrain 95]

Can someone please talk about Black Jews?

If I meet one, I will let you know how it goes.Plenty of Jewbans down here, though. Interesting bunch.

[El Guapo 8]

Can someone please talk about Black Jews?

Sammy Davis Jr. always annoyed me.Jim Rice was a good baseball player, I don't think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.Anyone else?

[dapokerbum 0]

Power to the people ... and by people I mean only people of my race.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

hopefully religion will be gone in the future. but i'm sure i'll be long dead before that glorious day.

[strategy 4]

I think it's much more likely that "marriage" will be considered the stupid thing... not specific types of marriage.

probably correct

[digitalmonkey 929]

I think it's much more likely that "marriage" will be considered the stupid thing... not specific types of marriage.

Isn't it already?

[timwakefield 68]

So, if you can't refute the facts, refute the context?

No you're right, context is meaningless.

I'm willing to wager $1000 (escrowed) that they do. Are you willing to wager $1000 (escrowed) that those statistics are wrong?

I dunno where your reading comprehension is. I blatantly said that the statistics in your white-history chart were probably accurate. Now you suggest I bet $1000 against that position? No thanks. You even quoted me saying "I'll assume that the chart nonetheless presents accurate census data" and then suggested that I bet $1000 against that point of view, and that would settle it. wtf

And if you're going to reference the website in question, at least do so with the link that is most appropriate to this discussion...The Ruins Of Detroit

If you go back and re-read my post, you will see that I linked to that exact page.

... or, post pictures of Hitler, say "ignorant" and "racist" and

Well, when your source is a website espousing the great deeds of Hitler, I don't think it's inane to post that image. It's where you got your data from, and they have Hitler on the main page. It's not like I called you a Nazi and drew a mustache on you - I simply posted a screenshot of the home page of a website that you used to get data from. And I don't see how it's unfair or silly to call somebody an ignorant racist when that is quite obviously what they are. I mean, would you even object to being called racist? How and why am I supposed to address your racism without using the word itself?

[frautotenkinder 1,025]

So in the "Is This Normal" thread, BigD posted this:Am I reading that correctly in that you can buy houses for hundreds of dollars? I mean, I know Detroit is a shithole, but land in the middle of nowhere, without roads or any other redeeming feature costs more than that. I would think it would be profitable to just tear the house down and let the lot grow wild for a decade. I know it sucks now, but it is still part of a city that has the infrastructure to support millions. At some point, they have to figure out how they are driving business away. I've never been to Detroit, but it seems to me that if you had some money that you wanted to leave to your kids, you could buy a large number of these basically vacant lots and let them sit for a couple decades. Or are property taxes too high that it would eat up any hope of profit? It should be based on the value of the land, right? Is it just that nobody believes they will ever turn this around? Or does the city council make owning vacant lots impossible? It's just insane to me that land close to a major city can be worth nothing. A group of people could buy entire neighborhoods and turn them into McMansions.....

I think the beginning of the thread got it right--I think it's the failure of the auto industry, the ongoing disintegration of the union structure, and concurrently a failing civic government structure.

I'm pretty sure I'm better off personally and financially than 95% of the posters here.I mean, the area I live in ...

Hegwish? Lots of Polish girls with Daddy issues!

[hblask 1]

Well, this thread turned out well.....

[hblask 1]

OK, this is more what I was looking for....

I haven't read the entire topic, just bits and pieces but I will throw my two cents in on why Detroit is the way it is now.Not in any certain order:1. Auto Industry2. Bad State Economy3. The People Who Live in Detroit (aka...the black people)I live in the suburbs of Detroit, about 15 minutes north. I work in a suburb of Detroit, about 1 minute east. Obv the auto industry helped ruin the city and the State. When the crap hit the fan a few years back we lost about 10% of our tenants due to the lay offs and downsizing by Ford and GM. I still have some GM guys here who get weeks off at a time with no pay because there is no work. Luckily though the Volt plant is now operating and that has helped tremendously. The State as a whole is f'ed up so it is safe to say that if the State is failing then it's poor areas like Flint and Detroit will fail harder.The people in Detroit played a HUGE part in ruining their city. There is a great divide between the city proper and the suburbs and it surely seems like a black and white thing. Detroit has to have one of the most corrupt city council in this great nation. At least top 5. They have done enough to have the FBI involved and have indictments thrown around the table. They have voted in a couple criminal mayors which helped drive the city down to the ground. People are leaving the city in droves the last couple years and what is left is a largely uneducated group of people with no desire or drive. Kroger pulled out of Detroit along with a couple other grocery chains because they couldn't find anyone suitable to employ and they constant shoplifting was killing their bottom line. Houses are cheap all around here, not just Detroit. There are houses in the suburbs going for under $50K. You just have to be careful and look at the taxes. There are places in Detroit where the taxes are over $20K a year. Sure the house is selling for $2K but your getting raped in taxes and the city doesn't even have the means to handle trash and snow removal. Detroit would be more f'ed if the suburbanites didn't go into the city and spend money. Though many Detroiters have spoken out saying that the suburbs need to stay out and leave them be. I don't think that would help them too much. They need us to go to Wings, Lions, and Tigers games. They need us to hang out in the Fox district and see shows and spend money in the bars and restaurants. They need us to go to the Greektown, MGM, and Motorcity Casino.I can't wait to move...

The bolded are the things I was wondering about. If it's mostly the first, then I think eventually those types of people run out of things to squeeze money from and move on. Or, if you made a concerted effort and bought lots of houses at a couple hundred dollars each and educated the people who stayed, maybe you could vote the corrupt council out, put business friendly guys in, and have the city take over any lot/house that won't pay their taxes, and bulldoze everything. Remove zoning laws, and send word out: start your business here, we won't get in the way. No zoning, no wait.If it's mostly the second bolded item, then none of this would work, because the carrying costs are too high to wait for that kind of radical change.It's all academic anyway, it's not like I have the money or ambition to attempt it anyway, I just don't understand how a negative land value can persist.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I think the beginning of the thread got it right--I think it's the failure of the auto industry, the ongoing disintegration of the union structure, and concurrently a failing civic government structure.

This sounds like the work of white people.

[AmScray 355]

I think the beginning of the thread got it right--I think it's the failure of the auto industry, the ongoing disintegration of the union structure, and concurrently a failing civic government structure.

I'm going to not bother engaging others, since it's pretty much pointless at this point. I will just say that all race debate aside, I don't think Unions have done Detroit any favors, but they have done huge favors for all those car plants in the south.

Hegwish? Lots of Polish girls with Daddy issues!

I don't live there now, but I actually have lived there before. It's kind of turned into a dump in the past 10 years or so (guess why?). Back years ago, it was the cheapest option for living in a safe, white area while still being in the city limits.

[AmScray 355]

And I don't see how it's unfair or silly to call somebody an ignorant racist when that is quite obviously what they are. I mean, would you even object to being called racist? How and why am I supposed to address your racism without using the word itself?

Racism and ignorance are not synonymous. I think you'll usually find that the people who have the most exposure to blacks are usually the ones who tend to like them the least, while those who live away from them are quick to jump on the 'equality' bandwagon, since they never have to confront the counter-reality that exists outside their own, little bubble. In a way, the whole preemptive cat-calling of 'ignorant' whenever someone brings up certain racial facts is pretty lame. Usually, the ones quick to say 'ignorant' are the ones most fitting of that label. Would I mind being called racist? I guess that depends. I mean, I'm definitely racist in some ways. Probably not as racist as some might think. When I'm being racist, then go ahead and call me racist. When I'm reciting facts and applying standard logic to them, no, in that case, that isn't me being racist. It's me being objective.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Racism and ignorance are not synonymous. I think you'll usually find that the people who have the most exposure to blacks are usually the ones who tend to like them the least, while those who live away from them are quick to jump on the 'equality' bandwagon, since they never have to confront the counter-reality that exists outside their own, little bubble. In a way, the whole preemptive cat-calling of 'ignorant' whenever someone brings up certain racial facts is pretty lame. Usually, the ones quick to say 'ignorant' are the ones most fitting of that label. Would I mind being called racist? I guess that depends. I mean, I'm definitely racist in some ways. Probably not as racist as some might think. When I'm being racist, then go ahead and call me racist. When I'm reciting facts and applying standard logic to them, no, in that case, that isn't me being racist. It's me being objective.

The last "v" in your signature is not capitalized.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Nah, more like because they were super fucking racist. And stupid. Along with thinking it standard to enslave those possessed of skin color different from their own they also thought the earth was flat and the center of the universe.

slavery is actually an african tradition

[timwakefield 68]

When I'm reciting facts and applying standard logic to them, no, in that case, that isn't me being racist. It's me being objective.

You listed one table of numbers. This to you might as well be an historical, factual dismemberment of the notion of racial equality. Almost nothing you've said is factual by definition, and your logic is certainly not standard.

Usually, the ones quick to say 'ignorant' are the ones most fitting of that label.

Nice try, but I'm rubber and you're glue.I mean, I'm sorry to bring this whole thread down and make everybody feel angry or sorry, but personally I think scram can put together a much better debate than any of the Christian loons, and debating is sometimes fun. Also sometimes it's angry and heated, which is kind of what happened here. Anyway, I'll probably go back now and quote a bunch and say more stuff, since I sort of started it.

[AmScray 355]

You listed one table of numbers. This to you might as well be an historical, factual dismemberment of the notion of racial equality. Almost nothing you've said is factual by definition, and your logic is certainly not standard.

I think you're just so blinded by ideology that you've lost all touch with everything on this issue.This conversation was about Detroit.Cliff Notes: Scram: Blacks Ruined DetroitYou: RACIST!Scram: Yeah, but blacks still ruined Detroit and in general, kinda suck.You: NO THEY DIDN'T! MARTIN LUTHER KING!!!!!!Scram: Yeah, they kind of did. (posts statistics that show quality of life in Detroit- ala crime- declined in direct consort with the increase in its black population)You: RACIST!That's about what we have here.

Nice try, but I'm rubber and you're glue.

Not really. This debate treads some pretty worn paths, one of them being your side plaintively bleating the word "ignorant". If you deconstruct the backgrounds of the people who are fastest to toe that line, they themselves are usually quite unlikely to have much first hand, practical experience with heavily black areas, save for driving through them very fast with the doors locked and the windows rolled up... then, as soon as they get back home to the gated community out in the suburbs, they chant about equality, and how anyone who says otherwise is "IGNORANT!"I agree this debate can get needlessly heated, but honestly, so much of what is totally factual gets thrown out by your side because it doesn't fit your ideological framework. It's no different than people in Kansas insisting that evolution not be taught in schools, because it's contrary to what they choose to believe.Anyway, Good Times is on now, literally right this second. It's the episode where Grandpa Henry shows up with his new girlfriend. One of my favorite parts about Good Times is when people come to visit the Evans family. I've been in a few Cabrini buildings, before they were demolished. The interior stairwells were the most horrific thing I've ever, ever, ever, experienced yet on the TV show version, everyone always shows up at the Evans door, presumably having just traversed those same nightmares, with a big, beaming smile on their faces. Apparently, Hollywood hates reality, too.

[strategy 4]

It's no different than people in Kansas insisting that evolution not be taught in schools, because it's contrary to what they choose to believe.

evolution is theory, not fact. thanks.

[AmScray 355]

evolution is theory, not fact. thanks.

So is Einsteins whole 'Relativity' thing.The point being, it and creationism have a helluva lot more basis in reason than the notion that a magical man in the sky created us from some sinning bitches rib. The race issue is no different. When you subtract emotion, when you subtract egalitarian sentiment, when you subtract idealism, you're left with a very ugly truth and the concept of equality between the races looks pretty stupid.I mean, we freely accept that every other living organism may develop attributes, abilities or aptitudes as a result of their own evolutionary trajectory- yet we're supposed to believe that different types of people, by sole virtue of some magical shared 'humanity', in spite of wildly different patters of natural selection, are magically 'all the same'? Perhaps Jesus suspended the otherwise natural phenomena, just for us? Even though every single indicator before our very eyes tells us that this is CLEARLY not the case and supports the precedent set by Mother Nature on this issue, as evidenced by all demonstrable fact on race and the disparities that might exist intraspecies between every other living creature? It's just so ****ing absurd that even a few people buy into this... That so many do speaks to an inherent flaw of man that is universal, amongst all races.

[strategy 4]

So is Einsteins whole 'Relativity' thing.

I sincerely hope you're trolling. Fuck.... Fuck.

[strategy 4]

here, god damnit.

[AmScray 355]

here, god damnit.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.Evolution is a theory, as is General Relativity. here, god damnitSo is the idea that all human beings are magically 'equal' in spite of all evidence saying that isn't true. Same with the notion that we were created by a wizard-in-the-clouds to exist according to the laws he etched into a couple flat stones and handed down from the heavens to a bearded Jewish midget on a mountaintop. Some things can be 'theories' yet have much stronger footing in reason (and basis in fact) than others.

[ShakeZuma 585]

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

he was mocking the creationism people in his state. ole strat just has an odd way of communicating jokes and explanations, usually only discernible by chicago liberals and petite english girls.but at the risk of being labeled an IGNORANT RACIST RETARD (and after all, I am from the south so I am genetically predisposed to hating all things non-white), I have to agree with scram's point about not understanding why it's so difficult for people to allow for the possibility that different groups of people evolved with different levels of brain power and cognitive abilities. so many other human characteristics decided by natural selection are plainly visible (height, hair color, etc.) so there's really no argument about how the environment affected a particular group's development, so why is it just so unbelievably horrible to admit that the possibility exists that intelligence evolved similarly?I'm not making an argument that blacks are an inferior race here or anything, just that I've always found it silly to just instantly denounce the possibility varying levels of intelligence between geographically separated groups because it's uncomfortable. and it really is just as an emotion based non-argument as the creationist's argument is with the "it can't be true because I just don't believe it!" way of thinking.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

but at the risk of being labeled an IGNORANT RACIST RETARD (and after all, I am from the south so I am genetically predisposed to hating all things non-white), I have to agree with scram's point about not understanding why it's so difficult for people to allow for the possibility that different groups of people evolved with different levels of brain power and cognitive abilities. so many other human characteristics decided by natural selection are plainly visible (height, hair color, etc.) so there's really no argument about how the environment affected a particular group's development, so why is it just so unbelievably horrible to admit that the possibility exists that intelligence evolved similarly?I'm not making an argument that blacks are an inferior race here or anything, just that I've always found it silly to just instantly denounce the possibility because it's uncomfortable. and it really is just as an emotion based non-argument as the creationist's argument is with the "it can't be true because I just don't believe it!" way of thinking.

(Crap, am I actually jumping into this conversation...?)While your quote is true, I would argue that inherent characteristics associated with the average intelligence of a race are VASTLY overwhelmed by social and economic factors. The graph that Scram showed is missing a convenient third variable: poverty. The black people tend to be poorer. Poor people tend to do more crime. But from Scram's linear plot, one cannot infer in which direction the causation flows.But there's more to it than just saying, "poverty," because, of course, the next question to ask is, "Why do black people in America tend to be poorer on average." There are many reasons for this that don't involve inherent intelligence. The most jolting example of this is the so-called Stereotype-Threat, which is the phenomenon that people of a certain race, when reminded of their race, will tend to conform to the expectations of that race. In numerous studies, blacks do worse on tests, such as the GRE, when before taking the test they are asked to identify their race and are reminded that they're taking an IQ test.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threatThe point is, while it's certainly conceivable that there are general biological differences between races, the social ones are going to be much more powerful in determining any visible trend.(Also, this thread took an odd turn when people started criticizing MK's argument. Clearly, by bringing up "the Earth is flat," he was using a shorthand to remind people of the many false beliefs that people held hundreds of years ago and how those beliefs could have driven people toward racist tendencies. He wasn't necessarily claiming as a central tenant of his argument that people literally thought the world was flat. Sometimes it's important to see the forest in spite of the trees.)ps: Scram, Wakefield, when do I get paid?