Stars $3 Rebuy 180 Turbo Thread

[nutzzcase 0]

Instead of me saying what I think, what do you think he raises pre, bets twice and folds on this board which beats you?

55!!

[CorvairShaggy 5]

55!!

Damn, you saw that?!?!beware the feral cow packs. they hunger.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t150/t300 ante t25 - 9 playersHJ zevenkamp: t10,381 CO SweeTxChild: t3,985 Button master06: t6,945 SB canarion77: t12,820 BB Moosenukl78: t3,925 UTG 3lmagic0: t16,205 UTG+1 Hero: t9,923 MP Io.Sti: t2,540 MP2 SjunkieXtra: t14,581 Preflop: (t675) Hero is UTG+1 with (9 players)3lmagic0 folds, Hero raises to t600, 3 folds, SweeTxChild raises to t3960 and is all-in, 3 folds, Hero calls t3360Flop: (t8,595) (2 players)Turn: (t8,595) (2 players)River: (t8,595) (2 players)SweeTxChild showed , and won (8595) with two pair, Queens and SevensHero showed , and lost with two pair, Sevens and FivesSweeTxChild won t8595Getting about 2.5:1 hoping for a flip. Didn't work out that way. You damn regs always have big pairs or AK, always at the wrong times

[nutzzcase 0]

Damn, you saw that?!?!

nop, didn't see it but i think it's a fold pf utg+1.

[HighwayStar 8]

55!!

Yea I was thinking 33-55 was about it and they're gonna be discounted to nothing relative compared to hands he stacks off with.He could bluff here..it's an okay spot to do so. I would say it was in the arsenal of a minority of regulars though.I don't think calling is out of the question against a looser player..but it's very awkward on the river given stacks and I'd probably never actually do it.Tbh in 12 180s you rarely get in spots where you get to the turn without being all in or virtually all in. Early on you're playing a tight range which is rarely bluffing anyway, later the stacks are just too shallow. The game is all about playing well and exploiting people preflop and on the flop. 3Rs play reasonably deeper so you get more spots like this...kinda the reason I don't mix them in at the moment since they take more concentration for the same $/hour.----I think you can probably fold the 55 vs sweettx, he plays heaps of tables and is really tight. You'll find a few people like this who show up with the nuts all the time.

[CorvairShaggy 5]

Yea I was thinking 33-55 was about it and they're gonna be discounted to nothing relative compared to hands he stacks off with.He could bluff here..it's an okay spot to do so. I would say it was in the arsenal of a minority of regulars though. I don't think calling is out of the question against a looser player..but it's very awkward on the river given stacks and I'd probably never actually do it. Tbh in 12 180s you rarely get in spots where you get to the turn without being all in or virtually all in. Early on you're playing a tight range which is rarely bluffing anyway, later the stacks are just too shallow. The game is all about playing well and exploiting people preflop and on the flop. 3Rs play reasonably deeper so you get more spots like this...kinda the reason I don't mix them in at the moment since they take more concentration for the same $/hour.----I think you can probably fold the 55 vs sweettx, he plays heaps of tables and is really tight. You'll find a few people like this who show up with the nuts all the time.

Yea, that is what I thought. I mean, I'm already kinda lost. You call of 4th and 5th bricks, then you just burned cash on 4th.I go back and forth with $12s and $3 rebuys. Been watching some videos and working on my early game some. In the $12's early on I can't get any traction, therefore I am too short too quick. I have a "good" feel for later game, just need to build up more chips earlier so I can quit going out on a regular basis at 50th-60th. That and losing money are the only two regular poker things I have in common right now. Ohh well. Back to work. Thanks for the inputs!!

[XXEddie 0]

Damn, you saw that?!?!beware the feral cow packs. they hunger.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t150/t300 ante t25 - 9 playersHJ zevenkamp: t10,381 CO SweeTxChild: t3,985 Button master06: t6,945 SB canarion77: t12,820 BB Moosenukl78: t3,925 UTG 3lmagic0: t16,205 UTG+1 Hero: t9,923 MP Io.Sti: t2,540 MP2 SjunkieXtra: t14,581 Preflop: (t675) Hero is UTG+1 with (9 players)3lmagic0 folds, Hero raises to t600, 3 folds, SweeTxChild raises to t3960 and is all-in, 3 folds, Hero calls t3360Flop: (t8,595) (2 players)Turn: (t8,595) (2 players)River: (t8,595) (2 players)SweeTxChild showed , and won (8595) with two pair, Queens and SevensHero showed , and lost with two pair, Sevens and FivesSweeTxChild won t8595Getting about 2.5:1 hoping for a flip. Didn't work out that way. You damn regs always have big pairs or AK, always at the wrong times

You're math is way off. It's 3360 to win 5235. About 1.55 to 1.

[CorvairShaggy 5]

HAND #12a OK. A few interesting spots in this one. Let's start with the B vs BThere was about 50-something left, and villain was chip leader, and was 19/19 over 27 . What to do?? I'm thinking I only have 10BBs effective, and TBH I really was not paying attention (3-tabling, first problem ) to see how he got that stack. I am thinking call, b/c he is probably shoving pretty wide here especially if he thinks I am trying to steal. I had been playing pretty tight b/c I had been card dead for a while. Is my thinking ok here and is this a standard play to make the call here?Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t400/t800 ante t75 - 9 playersUTG+1 pkroomsux: t5,635 MP herasuko: t11,400 MP2 666killjoy: t7,875 HJ Þ¿ÿ¿Þ: t8,719 CO gfernandez88: t30,152 Button te rauparaha: t12,903 SB Hero: t10,362 BB trombanator9: t32,428 UTG sprstoner: t6,200 Preflop: (t1,875) Hero is SB with :D (9 players)7 folds, Hero raises to t1600, trombanator9 raises to t32353 and is all-in, Hero ...--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HAND #12b Villain is 8/8 over 12. I've got ~20bbs. Is 88 in MP tad too light to iso-shove here? I think about high-40 somethings left. I'm thinking Jacks or better to shove with. Thoughts??Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t500/t1000 ante t100 - 9 playersBB MADLUKKER: t2,256 UTG herasuko: t11,250 UTG+1 666killjoy: t5,850 MP comp(insane): t17,360 MP2 gfernandez88: t28,527 HJ te rauparaha: t18,253 CO Hero: t21,399 Button trombanator9: t59,390 SB sprstoner: t10,700 Preflop: (t2,400) Hero is CO with (9 players)herasuko raises to t11150 and is all-in, 4 folds, Hero ...-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HAND #12c Line Check. Villain is a complete retard with vp56/pr22/afq67 over 18 Thoughts??A pack of feral cows chewed their cuds for .0043 seconds to convert this handPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t800/t1600 ante t150 - 7 playersHJ DRYNZ: t40,740 CO chi fume: t56,385 Button gfernandez88: t21,457 SB te rauparaha: t11,678 BB Hero: t15,139 UTG trombanator9: t72,060 UTG+1 Ropar63: t31,485 Preflop: (t3,450) Hero is BB with (7 players)3 folds, chi fume calls t1600, 2 folds, Hero checksFlop: (t5,050) (2 players)Hero checks, chi fume bets t1600, Hero raises to t4800, chi fume calls t3200Turn: (t14,650) (2 players)Hero checks, chi fume checksRiver: (t14,650) (2 players)Hero bets t8589 and is all-in, chi fume ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HAND #12 d ehhhhhhh. Villain was 13/10/83 over 30. How do you figure if someone is stealing or has the goods in this spot? He had been pretty quiet until now, so I guess his 25% of stack raise means he really wants to get it in. AQ-off too light here? I did not feel good about it at the time, and maybe results oriented thinking, feel worse about it now. AK QQ+ I guess would be an unavoidable shove against this villain's range, but if I call and total brick the flop, then I'm just ****ed. IDK. Thoughts??Dont have a cow, heres your converted handPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t800/t1600 ante t150 - 7 playersUTG+1 DRYNZ: t40,590 HJ chi fume: t49,835 CO gfernandez88: t21,307 Button te rauparaha: t10,728 SB Hero: t23,239 BB trombanator9: t71,910 UTG Ropar63: t31,335 Preflop: (t3,450) Hero is SB with (7 players)3 folds, gfernandez88 raises to t4800,te rauparaha folds, Hero raises to t23089 and is all-in, trombanator9 folds, gfernandez88 calls t16357 and is all-inFlop: (t44,964) (2 players)Turn: (t44,964) (2 players)River: (t44,964) (2 players)

[HighwayStar 8]

a) SHOVE initially. If you do raise never fold. Also don't min raise bvb in general...make it a little bigger else you're gonna start playing heaps of pots out of positionb) 88 is close here vs a tight player. I'd probably never fold though unless I had a big sample on someone. 12 hands isn't a big sample. c) Shove pre. Check shove flop. I have no idea after that. I'm not seeing a turn without the money being in.d) edit - fine. Don't think about folding this unless you have a massive sample/history with someone.

[TrueAce13 18]

i'm going all in preflop on all of those hands

[CorvairShaggy 5]

i'm going all in preflop on all of those hands

Right now, you could get it in with Uno cards and still come out a winner! Here was the results: HAND #12 a Hero calls t8687 and is all-inFlop: (t21,249) (2 players)Turn: (t21,249) (2 players)River: (t21,249) (2 players)Hero showed , and won (21249) with a pair of Kingstrombanator9 showed , and lost with high card KingHero won t21249---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HAND #12b Hero folds, 2 folds, MADLUKKER calls t1156 and is all-inFlop: (t5,712) :qh (2 players)Turn: (t5,712) (2 players)River: (t5,712) (2 players)MADLUKKER showed , and lost with two pair, Aces and Ninesherasuko showed , and won (5712) with two pair, Aces and Ninesherasuko won t5712--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HAND #12c Villain Folded----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------So on HAND #12b, 88s shoulda been shoved there. I just did not have a good feeling here, and that is why I folded, but I did tank for bit. Just realized I did not pay attention to the players left to act and their stack sizes.... hmm... Just went back and looked at that, and other than the guy directly to my left that I could not figure out if he was a luckbox or a really good player, I had the remaining covered 2:1, so basically I guess this was a classic flip situation, and hope like hell no one woke up with a bigger PP. Thanks again for the inputs.

[MaxStPolish 4]

Damn, you saw that?!?!beware the feral cow packs. they hunger.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t150/t300 ante t25 - 9 playersHJ zevenkamp: t10,381 CO SweeTxChild: t3,985 Button master06: t6,945 SB canarion77: t12,820 BB Moosenukl78: t3,925 UTG 3lmagic0: t16,205 UTG+1 Hero: t9,923 MP Io.Sti: t2,540 MP2 SjunkieXtra: t14,581 Preflop: (t675) Hero is UTG+1 with (9 players)3lmagic0 folds, Hero raises to t600, 3 folds, SweeTxChild raises to t3960 and is all-in, 3 folds, Hero calls t3360Flop: (t8,595) (2 players)Turn: (t8,595) (2 players)River: (t8,595) (2 players)SweeTxChild showed , and won (8595) with two pair, Queens and SevensHero showed , and lost with two pair, Sevens and FivesSweeTxChild won t8595Getting about 2.5:1 hoping for a flip. Didn't work out that way. You damn regs always have big pairs or AK, always at the wrong times

I just wandered into here. Question on this one. Can I ask both CS as well as the panel of esteemed representatives what the point of min raising UTG+1 with 55 is. Is it to try and prevent a latter player from attempting a squeeze raise, thereby ruining your equity to set mine? I dunno, I guess I just don't get it. My instinct is to fold 55 here unless I'm limping to set mine. I feel like it takes 77-88+ for me to open here. I'm a nit often though too. I just don't see the value in the min-raise open. I at least understand it if the intent is to preserve the odds to set mine.....I still don't really "like" it tho.Thx in advance for thoughts.

[HighwayStar 8]

You can almost always make money raising 55 here at low stakes. Not much money, but some. There are some stack size distributions which won't make it good but in general the players are gonna be bad enough in various ways to make 55 marginally profitable.I really don't like limping here. You can make money limping these hands very early on in mtt sngs but past 25/50 it's pretty bad. Personally I never do it. I think 22-44 should often be folded but not always.Regarding the min raise...I think it's probably better when learning to beat low stakes to make it 2.25-2.5x when opening. Min raising is definitely a profitable strategy but I see it as something you can incooporate into your game once you have a ton of experience. You'll get a lot more awkward situations when min raising

[HighwayStar 8]

Right now, you could get it in with Uno cards and still come out a winner!

You don't know how true this is. In vegas last year TA13 won something like 4 straight games of $10 6 max UNO.

[CorvairShaggy 5]

I just wandered into here. Question on this one. Can I ask both CS as well as the panel of esteemed representatives what the point of min raising UTG+1 with 55 is. Is it to try and prevent a latter player from attempting a squeeze raise, thereby ruining your equity to set mine? I dunno, I guess I just don't get it. My instinct is to fold 55 here unless I'm limping to set mine. I feel like it takes 77-88+ for me to open here. I'm a nit often though too. I just don't see the value in the min-raise open. I at least understand it if the intent is to preserve the odds to set mine.....I still don't really "like" it tho.Thx in advance for thoughts.

This was just a retarded gamble. Generally in these, when the antes kick in, people play a lot tighter. The min raise here is really to just take the pot away, but really needs to be a few levels deeper to really accomplish that. If you get lucky enough for someone to call you, then you are set-mining, or if it is a low dry board, you can c-bet the flop and take it down there. I think you are correct with calling a shove needs to be at least 77-88. The reg villain was at about 14bbs, so therefore I made the choice to flip with him, but unfortunatly he had a bigger PP. Generally from what I have seen, when it gets to the later stages, guys are shoving 10-15bbs with any Ax (maybe not regs). That is my flawed thinking. I am always open to discussion, but this probably really was a retarded play here.

[CorvairShaggy 5]

You can almost always make money raising 55 here at low stakes. Not much money, but some. There are some stack size distributions which won't make it good but in general the players are gonna be bad enough in various ways to make 55 marginally profitable.I really don't like limping here. You can make money limping these hands very early on in mtt sngs but past 25/50 it's pretty bad. Personally I never do it. I think 22-44 should often be folded but not always.Regarding the min raise...I think it's probably better when learning to beat low stakes to make it 2.25-2.5x when opening. Min raising is definitely a profitable strategy but I see it as something you can incooporate into your game once you have a ton of experience. You'll get a lot more awkward situations when min raising

Thanks for pointing this out to me in the past few hands. From what I have read, they say it is good to min-raise when antes kick in to try to steal the pots. If I understand what you are saying, is that you want to open-raise hands that you are only comfortable getting it in PF with. No min-raise, fold to shove unless you are min-raising for inducing purposes. I guess that there are maybe some spots in late position in later levels where min-raising would be ok with ATC for purposes of light stealing, or do you not recommend it at all??Going to fire up a few of these this afternoon and try the 2.5x in spots where I would have min-raised before and see how it goes.

[TrueAce13 18]

You don't know how true this is. In vegas last year TA13 won something like 4 straight games of $10 6 max UNO.

just pwned everyone

[CorvairShaggy 5]

HAND #13 Alright, I think HUD may have really messed me up here. Honestly did not pay attention to UTG. He had only been at the table for 13 hands, and HUD had him at 33/17/100. There was about 60 people left, and at these levels 33 over 13 hands is pretty busy, but once again, really was not seeing if he was just raising PF, calling, etc. Can you really flat here looking to set mine, or because he was so active on HUD, just jam on him? Or, just lay it down? I know my first problem was not paying enough attention, but how do you handle a spot like this when you are multi-tabling??Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t400/t800 ante t75 - 8 playersSB phucino: t10,477 BB Hero: t15,080 UTG njunju1: t14,225 UTG+1 cupido3177: t4,525 MP dragsleafs: t16,394 HJ potiss...: t4,865 CO Sajanas23: t10,138 Button tassmus: t7,585 Preflop: (t1,800) Hero is BB with (8 players)njunju1 raises to t2400, 6 folds, Hero ...HighwayStar, Thanks for the tip on the min-raising issue. Changed that around a bit, and have been seeing more folds. Last night I was chip leader at the final table pretty much the whole time (came in second. V spiked his Q on the river). When you are at the FT and have a good sized lead, do you still want to open 2.5x 7-8 handed when you are at 3000/6000 and higher levels? Or is min-raising o.k. and folding to the bigger more comparable stacks with "weaker" hands?Also, simakos is a ****ing beast. Just wanted to put that out there. I have gone toe-to-toe with him a few times deep the past few tourneys. Bastard runs soooo good.

[nutzzcase 0]

I'm prolly folding this one, you are most likely behind vs his UTG range so jamming seems kinda spewy. I don't think u have the right odds to set mine either.

[Mr. Sparco 2]

You will hit your set about one in 8-9 times. You're not going to stack the guy every time you hit your set, so as a rule of thumb, don't setmine unless you have a decent chance of winning 15-20x what you're paying. When in doubt about my opponents tendencies, I usually go with 18-20x, and not 15x. So in thise case, you're getting nowhere near the right odds to setmine.As for shoving or folding, I'm a bit on the fence, so I'll let people with more experience in these tourneys decide on that one. If we have some fold equity, it's probably not horrible either way.

[HighwayStar 8]

Shove or fold with those stacks. Prob pretty close vs a 33/17 after 13 hands. With a bigger sample I think you have enough equity/fold equity against his range. Against a complete unknown this is a fold.Simakos plays 40+ tables is fairly tight. The guy is a "beast" given his insane volume and +ROI but I wouldn't say he was the hardest player to play against. I don't think he changes his ranges much at all based on who is he facing....not that that is feasible when you average 2 decisions a second.In the case where we get to 3k/6k with more than 3/4 people and we're not in shove/fold situations (rare) I think 2.5x is uneccessary and 2.2-2.3x is fine. I tend to drop down to 2.2x around the 150/300 level and there's never really a reason for me to go higher. Set up a default bet sizing in the stars client to make it easier. 2.2x 2.5x and Max is what I have.

[nutzzcase 0]

I was wondering if a stop and go play could work here. Thoughts?

[babylondonks 5]

Well we'd be jamming 13k into 6k or so, so I wouldn't reccomend it. It never really looks strong as I don't think we're jamming this flop when we bink our 6. There might be some value if we know villain calls on those flops with whiffed overcards and so we can feel safer on non Ace flops, but I doubt it's profitable. We have almost 20bbs in a 180 turbo, that's a lot of chips to be risking with a stop & go which would show a small profit at the best of times, nevermind against an unknown.

[CorvairShaggy 5]

Simakos plays 40+ tables is fairly tight. The guy is a "beast" given his insane volume and +ROI but I wouldn't say he was the hardest player to play against. I don't think he changes his ranges much at all based on who is he facing....not that that is feasible when you average 2 decisions a second.

Yea, I mean when we were 5 handed he was still just as fast as if he was 1-tabling. Also, he just runs so good. Several times I have seen him in a flip/race and he wins every time. I do good if I can win 1/5 times. I do not mind playing you platinum/supernova regs. You guys do like 12+ tables, so your ranges are all pretty tight. I've learned that AJ is not good to make a call against most. Some will steal ATC at times, and some won't. That's the hardest part is figuring out if you guys are just making a positional move on the button / B vs B or if you really have the goods.

In the case where we get to 3k/6k with more than 3/4 people and we're not in shove/fold situations (rare) I think 2.5x is uneccessary and 2.2-2.3x is fine. I tend to drop down to 2.2x around the 150/300 level and there's never really a reason for me to go higher. Set up a default bet sizing in the stars client to make it easier. 2.2x 2.5x and Max is what I have.

That is my next thing I need to work on is overall bet sizing. Grayson "Spacegravy" mentioned in one of his vides that I watched about a program he uses that automatically sets and adjust default bet sizing based on the levels. That is too advanced for me to worry with now, but good food for thought. I got called down in a tourney yesterday by a goofball, and he started needling me about how I was making "chump" bet sizing on that hand, and he won with bottom pair. Grant it, I probably did not have the best line in the world, but he still made a hero call. I think he called a 3-bet 3 handed PF with like J2 off or something really stupid like that about 4-5 levels in. I scoped him and he only plays like 25 tourneys a year on Stars and FTP, so usually I blow those guys off, but this retard actually had a point.Thanks again for the inputs. Slowly but surely I am making progess. I was consistantly finishing in the 60s, then 40s, then this weekend was finishing in the 20s, and had what should have been 1st, but the river card had other plans.

[outsider13 0]

Yea, I mean when we were 5 handed he was still just as fast as if he was 1-tabling. Also, he just runs so good. Several times I have seen him in a flip/race and he wins every time. I do good if I can win 1/5 times. I do not mind playing you platinum/supernova regs. You guys do like 12+ tables, so your ranges are all pretty tight. I've learned that AJ is not good to make a call against most. Some will steal ATC at times, and some won't. That's the hardest part is figuring out if you guys are just making a positional move on the button / B vs B or if you really have the goods.

This is why i think it's very important to make notes, or at least color code regs. Most good high volume turbo sng/mtt sng players play fairly similar, or at least will shove similar spots because most good players know when it's +ev to do so. If you have a better idea of the player, you should have a better idea of their range. Combining this knowledge with some tools that will allow you to analyze your play (I use sngwiz), it makes shove/fold a lot easier.

[HighwayStar 8]

Spacegravy is almost certainly using table ninja which I use too. It makes mass multitabling a lot easier but takes a bit of getting used to. Setting it up isn't that hard. I almost can't play without it now.I don't know why you are worrying about your finish positions. Finishing in the 60s 40s or 20s doesn't matter at all. Variance is ridiculous in these things and assessing how you are playing off a select few results is not a good idea. I've had days where I've played 80 180s and min cashed 2 and I've had days where I've played 15 and final tabled 5 and won 2. If I started worrying about where the bulk of my finish positions were on any given day and how it meant I was playing overall, I'd go mad.