Israel Attacks Aid Fleet

[antistuff 0]

it seems to me that isreal made a giant strategic blunder by putting themselves in the position to have this done to them. somebody found a way to cleverly exploit this. they can't just let the ships through given their current policy. so somebody forced them to either attack them or break their policy. its a bad corner they've trapped themselves in here.

[CaneBrain 95]

so this is what u bring to the table for debate? yep, the US and u can dismiss the world because only u can determine what's right/wrong. and spew nonsense about being afraid of muslims, hahaha. i guess all the talk of banning muslim veils in europe shows just how afraid they are. LOL.

yeah, no one is afraid of Muslims. That's why you can have a South Park about Mohammed without death threats. Oh wait, you can't.

[strategy 4]

All In, what is your ethnic background, please?

w t fALL IN, WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS?

[Mercury69 3]

w t fALL IN, WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS?

lol, perhaps, but if you think ethnicity is not relevant to the discussion, you're wrong. People choose sides for a lot of reasons. If one can eliminate ehtnic background as a reason, then it becomes more of a discussion, rather than a selfish political agenda. All In is not Muslim and I am not Jewish. Now that it has been established that neither of us have this as a hidden agenda or motivation to lead the discussion. Both of us clearly have sympathies that lie with our respective advocacies, but it's not linked to decaeds or generations of atrocities. Also, I think I'm making my own stance pretty clear.

[All_In 0]

yeah, no one is afraid of Muslims. That's why you can have a South Park about Mohammed without death threats. Oh wait, you can't.

southpark??? oh brother....

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

my ethnic background is irrelevant to this issue. i'll give u this though, i am not palestinian or muslim.

he's turkish

[CaneBrain 95]

Now that I have read the reports I dont understand what the big deal is. Israeli soldiers say they were attacked first. Palestinians deny it. Just another he said/he said.Let us know when you have something interesting to talk about All In.

[strategy's_touch 0]

lol, perhaps, but if you think ethnicity is not relevant to the discussion, you're wrong. People choose sides for a lot of reasons. If one can eliminate ehtnic background as a reason, then it becomes more of a discussion, rather than a selfish political agenda. All In is not Muslim and I am not Jewish. Now that it has been established that neither of us have this as a hidden agenda or motivation to lead the discussion. Both of us clearly have sympathies that lie with our respective advocacies, but it's not linked to decaeds or generations of atrocities. Also, I think I'm making my own stance pretty clear.

arguments don't gain or lose validity depending on the ethnicity of the speaker. time and again we are shown that reality doesn't share these biases. All In is clearly a Doberman, though

[SlapStick 0]

i have not heard of this, please provide a link.but this one action (if true)does not legitimize the whole story of the aid convoy.

http://aljazeera.com/news/articles/34/Free...es-to-Deli.htmlMy mother and friends told me it was on Irish radio too.I never said it legitimizes anything, my point was that these the organizers don't seem as humanitarian as its being made out.

[85suited 0]

All news coverage once again fails to point out that Gaza also shares a border with Egypt. Israel can’t actually blockade Gaza when Israel does not control all of Gaza’s border.

[Mercury69 3]

arguments don't gain or lose validity depending on the ethnicity of the speaker. time and again we are shown that reality doesn't share these biases. All In is clearly a Doberman, though

You're right. And not being Muslim or Jewish doesn't preclude one from having a hidden agenda of some sort, either, nor does it necessarily reduce the emotional fervour of the advocate. I think I was simply pointing out that it's more likely that it was more likely that All In and I, for example, might be able to hone in on the more factual aspects of situations like this, realising that (most) media reporting is biased, therefore the information we have is biased, but not necessarily insincere. If All In and I were to have this discussion in person, I doubt either of us would show up armed or willing to escalate the debate into violence or ideological impasse.

[SlapStick 0]

dying for a just cause is a celebrated action the world over, i didn't think it was necessary to mention the obvious.

Celebrating sucide killings of innocent civillians is not celebrated all the world and thats what these peaceful angels were doing before knowingly heading towards Israeli military.

so u instantly believe what israel puts out (paintball guns, etc..really, paintball guns???? lol, why do people believe this? what army uses paintball guns???) but dismiss what the protesters say? they say they were fired on before being boarded (in international waters, remember that).

OK we'll trade you don't believe what the military say and I won't believe what the activists say. I do however believe the guy who said it in the article, the reason I mentioned his story that made him famous was because it exposed atrocities caused by the IDF. He says they had paintball guns. I believe him. Also they said they were fired at after handguns had been wrestled from them in the struggle. Even if the helicopter video is not conclusive enough for you, its obvious there was mayhem going on with groups of one people swarming outnumbered people. I don't see how you can't just recognise that the activists were not peaceful.

i see unclear video of someone making an arm gesture towards another. i have no info on when this was made, who the people are and what is actually taking place. based on history, i am not inclined to instantly take israel's word on this, they have fabricated/made up stories and not told the truth many times.

OK, sticking with not believing the Israeli army how about Turkish TV? They broadcasted an image of an IDF soldier being beaten by 5 guys with sticks.

many items are not allowed in, did egypt offer to allow all the supplies in?

So you actually expect anyone to let unchecked goods go into an area thats fired over 8000 rockets at innocent civillians?

not sure if more soldiers = no one dying.

What are you actually saying, you haven't been clear. Israeli soldiers just start shooting them for the fun of it and unprovoked? Say it if so.If that was the case, they would have never have just let their soldiers slide down one by one. This is just so obviously a **** up, they were completely caught off guard and didn't expect any sort of strong resistance. The worrying thing for Israelis is if Raed Salah does not come out of hospital alive. Israeli Arabs are already extremely tense already and this could easily cause an intifada

[strategy's_touch 0]

You're right. And not being Muslim or Jewish doesn't preclude one from having a hidden agenda of some sort, either, nor does it necessarily reduce the emotional fervour of the advocate. I think I was simply pointing out that it's more likely that it was more likely that All In and I, for example, might be able to hone in on the more factual aspects of situations like this, realising that (most) media reporting is biased, therefore the information we have is biased, but not necessarily insincere. If All In and I were to have this discussion in person, I doubt either of us would show up armed or willing to escalate the debate into violence or ideological impasse.

yeah, being a Muslim or a Jew makes a person infinitely less likely to hold an objective viewpoint in this discussion, but examining their arguments is a much better way to go about it. the racial approach is as bad a proxy here as it is when we use it to try to equalize economic status' effects on opportunity (affirmative action).I'm not at all familiar with the Israel debate but it seems clear that All In is batshit crazy. No offense.

[vbnautilus 48]

what makes me? i wrote, 'practically the ENTIRE WORLD disagrees with this statement..' that is not just me.

I'm pretty sure the number of people which agree with something has little to do with its truth.

[Balloon guy 158]

I'm pretty sure the number of people which agree with something has little to do with its truth.

You are getting good at the backhanded stabs...

[strategy 4]

something interesting related to the boycotts various nations have attempted to impose on businesses:http://www.bis.doc.gov/complianceandenforc...tcompliance.htmI found a tl;dr from someone on reddit: "People should read the law. I have to every year as part of Export Compliance (quite boring actually). But there is nothing to legally stop a company to refuse to do business with a company in Israel.What they can't do is refuse on the grounds of boycott held by another country. For example Company X in Turkey will only do business with you if you refuse to do business with Israel. That is illegal.If you think that is messed up, did you know Americans have to follow Chinese Export laws to do business with China. Declare Taiwan a country on legal documentation and face fines/jail time."I had never heard about any of this.http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/israel.asp

[Balloon guy 158]

I don't get it, they were trying to stop a fleet of aids...

[85suited 0]

May 31, 2010 — Video taken by IDF naval boat shows the passengers of the Mavi Marmara, one of the ships in the ‘Free Gaza’ Flotilla, violently attacking IDF soldiers who were trying to board the ship after having sent repeated requests for the boat to change course.

[CaneBrain 95]

May 31, 2010 — Video taken by IDF naval boat shows the passengers of the Mavi Marmara, one of the ships in the ‘Free Gaza’ Flotilla, violently attacking IDF soldiers who were trying to board the ship after having sent repeated requests for the boat to change course.

yeah, but it is still fair that every country in the world but the US condemned Israel because their soldiers defended themselves from attack. for reasons, I am sure someone will explain some day.what a crock.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

yeah, but it is still fair that every country in the world but the US condemned Israel because their soldiers defended themselves from attack. for reasons, I am sure someone will explain some day.what a crock.

FYI the current Canadian Conservative Gov't is probably more pro-Israel than the US is at the moment.

[CaneBrain 95]

FYI the current Canadian Conservative Gov't is probably more pro-Israel than the US is at the moment.

I was generalizing to my own detriment. Canada was one of the few govs that did not rush to release an outlandish attack on Israel. Turkey called it "a stain on human history". And that is the most pro-Israel of the predominately Muslim countries.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I was generalizing to my own detriment. Canada was one of the few govs that did not rush to release an outlandish attack on Israel. Turkey called it "a stain on human history". And that is the most pro-Israel of the predominately Muslim countries.

The G8 and G20 are meeting here in Toronto in a couple weeks. I'm sure the usual professional protesters will add this to their chanting.

[All_In 0]

yeah, but it is still fair that every country in the world but the US condemned Israel because their soldiers defended themselves from attack. for reasons, I am sure someone will explain some day.what a crock.

because it was the israeli soldiers who attacked. they attacked a humanitarian convoy in international waters.

[AmScray 355]

LOL @ armed 'peace activists'.I love how shitheads are conveniently categorized to fit whatever agenda is being laid out. Your pathetically leftist underlying motives are hilariously transparent and the funniest part has to be your own lack of self-awareness in this regard. It's like you're totally unaware that others really do see you for what you are.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Your pathetically leftist underlying motives are hilariously transparent

I'm not sure when or why support for Israel vs support for Palestine became a left/right issue. I don't see an obvious, a priori mapping between conservative vs liberal and Israel vs Palestine. Do Palestinians want high taxes and universal healthcare or something like that?(The point of this post is not to questions whether there is a correlation, it's to question the idea of throwing concepts under a common label only because they may be correlated.)