KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 thanks.one of the cr videos i watched absolutely stressed bet/folding a lot of rivers when you're likely to have the best hand.No, for real that's great!I mentioned to babylon earlier that bet/folding the river is getting old bc I keep running into the top of ranges, but I'm staying positive.Also, look at how effective the delayed c-bet on an A high really dry board can be... I mean if we bet flop/turn 55 prob folds if we have JJ or AK or whatev, but turn/river is 2 streets... bink Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 That's not really a delayed c-bet though k-j... it's waiting for your hand to have enough value to bet in this multiway pot, either by cards or by action... Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I suppose today could've been much worse. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 That's not really a delayed c-bet though k-j... it's waiting for your hand to have enough value to bet in this multiway pot, either by cards or by action...I'm saying if we had AK or AQ and we take this same line, we get more value. bc our hand is wa/wb on A94r so if we check back flop and we are able to get multiple streets vs 55 (turn/river) as opposed to if we go for flop/turn or 3 streets we prob get called on flop and he folds turn... Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I'm saying if we had AK or AQ and we take this same line, we get more value. bc our hand is wa/wb on A94r so if we check back flop and we are able to get multiple streets vs 55 (turn/river) as opposed to if we go for flop/turn or 3 streets we prob get called on flop and he folds turn...Iono... i'm too afraid to be losing value on later streets to not bet the flop with AK/AQ... AJ or worse though, since we mix in a bit of pot control, it's more justifiable (and i do it more often) imo. Link to post Share on other sites
king1305 0 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Iono... i'm too afraid to be losing value on later streets to not bet the flop with AK/AQ... AJ or worse though, since we mix in a bit of pot control, it's more justifiable (and i do it more often) imo.getting two streets by betting the turn and river is better than getting one street on the flop and having them c/f the turn Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 getting two streets by betting the turn and river is better than getting one street on the flop and having them c/f the turnlol... be consistent plz... first you hate the check in the HU thread but now you want to check AK in that spot? wtf... Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 lol... be consistent plz... first you hate the check in the HU thread but now you want to check AK in that spot? wtf...everything is villain dependent and situationally dependent1) HU in 3bet pot2) single raised pot at 6maxI just wanted to point out that Jon maxed his value on that hand, which you applauded and I noted that we can take the same line with AK or AQ there and maybe get an extra street as opposed to the standard... Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 lol... be consistent plz... first you hate the check in the HU thread but now you want to check AK in that spot? wtf...they are like completely different hands.. one is HU and one is 6max..that changes the dynamic of the hand alot. Link to post Share on other sites
king1305 0 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 lol... be consistent plz... first you hate the check in the HU thread but now you want to check AK in that spot? wtf...Yes. I'm interested in taking lines that maximize out EV in a hand. You should try it. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Iono... i'm too afraid to be losing value on later streets to not bet the flop with AK/AQ... AJ or worse though, since we mix in a bit of pot control, it's more justifiable (and i do it more often) imo.you must agree that AQ or AQ on A94r is wa/wb... so I think the value gained in under-repping our hand > c-betting Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 you must agree that AQ or AQ on A94r is wa/wb... so I think the value gained in under-repping our hand > c-bettingYes, but if you check those two hands, what exactly are you betting on that flop? Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Yes, but if you check those two hands, what exactly are you betting on that flop?yeah, I will not check 100%... this whole discussion came from me having a quick "lightbulb" moment where I saw a great way to get an extra street at the micros where so much of what is preached is just to value bet value bet value bet...I just looked at the hand and the board and villains range and said, wow we can take this same line with this hand too and get an extra street as opposed to the strictly, value bet, value bet, value bet line we are used to... ISAP, so maybe this is standard for everyone, but I learned a lot from this discussion Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I just looked at the hand and the board and villains range and said, wow we can take this same line with this hand too and get an extra street as opposed to the strictly, value bet, value bet, value bet line we are used to... ISAP, so maybe this is standard for everyone, but I learned a lot from this discussionBet - check - bet lines work equally well. It's just a matter of figuring out which hands are only worth 2 streets of value. This can be a better line depending on the villain... especially the ones who are float happy. He will check behind the turn with all hands he plans on calling most rivers, and will fire a turn bet (but usually not a river bet) with his air. This will guarantee you 2 streets of value from 100% of his range. Look for the ones with low fold to c-bet on the flop but high fold to the second barrel. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Oh yeah... I'm done sandbagging 10NL unless I have to drop back... Total: 9 days (50hrs), 57k hands, $722 profit. $150 in bonuses. 6.3 BB/100 winrate. $14.33/hr Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I think there's merit to both checking the flop and betting it 3 way with AK/AQ type hands compared to <AJ. It is an interesting dynamic because it is a 3 way pot, it really depends on your cbetting frequencies on dry boards OOP 3 way with air and how well your villains know this/can adapt. Once you check flop there sometimes, some people have almost no air in their range because they'd cbet their air and nutted hands and only check hands like JJ or really weak aces. Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Oh yeah... I'm done sandbagging 10NL unless I have to drop back... Total: 9 days (50hrs), 57k hands, $722 profit. $150 in bonuses. 6.3 BB/100 winrate. $14.33/hrChrist...good job. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Oh yeah... I'm done sandbagging 10NL unless I have to drop back... Total: 9 days (50hrs), 57k hands, $722 profit. $150 in bonuses. 6.3 BB/100 winrate. $14.33/hro baby, nice work!!!Bet - check - bet lines work equally well. It's just a matter of figuring out which hands are only worth 2 streets of value. This can be a better line depending on the villain... especially the ones who are float happy. He will check behind the turn with all hands he plans on calling most rivers, and will fire a turn bet (but usually not a river bet) with his air. This will guarantee you 2 streets of value from 100% of his range. Look for the ones with low fold to c-bet on the flop but high fold to the second barrel. I think there's merit to both checking the flop and betting it 3 way with AK/AQ type hands compared to <AJ. It is an interesting dynamic because it is a 3 way pot, it really depends on your cbetting frequencies on dry boards OOP 3 way with air and how well your villains know this/can adapt. Once you check flop there sometimes, some people have almost no air in their range because they'd cbet their air and nutted hands and only check hands like JJ or really weak aces.Good stuff, fellas. Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 you must agree that AQ or AQs on A94r is wa/wb... so I think the value gained in under-repping our hand > c-bettingfyp Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 fyp yo, have you been playing any live poker since the un-capped games started? Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 v1.24Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 2 playersBB koolart_guy: $50.00 Button Hero: $64.75 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is Button with : : (2 players)Hero raises to $1.50, koolart_guy raises to $5.50, Hero raises to $14, koolart_guy calls $8.50Flop: ($28.25) : : : (2 players)koolart_guy checks, Hero bets $16, koolart_guy raises to $36 and is all-in, Hero calls $20Turn: ($100.25) : (2 players)River: ($100.25) : (2 players)koolart_guy showed : :, and lost with a pair of FoursHero showed : :, and won ($99.50) with two pair, Aces and FoursHero won $99.50(Rake: $0.50)OH REALLY?!?! Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 4b a little smaller imo Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 4b a little smaller imoprevious hand before this i did same betsizes on flop with K9 on 962.. also, his previous sessions from today showed me he seemed a little tilted.. i had a hunch he would spew.raises went 3bb>11bb>28bb... what u think would be appropriate. 3>11>25? Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 It's all good I'm just nit-picking Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 It's all good I'm just nit-picking pfff.. go back to work.imma tell ur boss Link to post Share on other sites
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