How Bad Was This Play.

[melaskins 0]

This type of hand is an extremely frustrating weakness in my game. I let myself get caught in this way too often.The hand is from live 220 buyin. I had been playing really good and had gotten myself a healthy chip stack for this stage of the tourney. I had convinced a couple of players that I would fold to just about any decent raise and caught them in a snare when they had middle pairs to my over pairs. I had just gotten moved and was 3rd in chips at the table when I got there. After about 8-10 hands, this guy two seats to my left won a huge pot with AKo when he rivered a boat over a flopped A high flush. I had about 19K and he had about 25K.The blinds are 400/800 with 50ante and 8 people at the table. I'm in the bb with Jc4c. UTG Folds, UTG+1 raises to 1600. It folds to me and I call.Flop8c9hTcI throw out 3000, the villain calls quickly.Turn is a 4dAgain I throw out 3000, the villain calls. Not so quickly this time though.River is a 3sI throw out 3000, the villain calls quickly. He insists that I show my hand and then shows JTo for the win.Once I got the river spade, I wanted a hole to crawl in. I didn't really know what to do other than to act quickly like I had a decent hand. Should I have just folded this hand from the get go or checked anywhere or pushed the turn or the river? Was my bet sizing totally screwed up in this hand?One of the reasons that I posted this is because I run this kind of deal way too often and end up letting it cost me too many chips and I maxtilt afterwards and might as well get up from the table and leave. And it is usually after I have been playing good and got some chips. I do the same thing online and live. Somehow, I let bluffing be too big of a part of my game and need to get away from it.

[larons 0]

Arn't you the same guy that keeps playing even when you found out that one of your employees is dying becaude he was in an accident? The truth is that the poker gods will never let you become a winning player. Just quit now, for the good of everyone.

[KoRnholio 2]

J4 (even sooooted) is a piece of cheese. Especially against an early position raiser. Fold preflop and you won't find yourself in as many tough spots postflop.

[Yahkin 0]

Fold PF.Why lead the flop? He opened, let him bet. Looks like a good spot for a semi-bluff CR.If he called 3k on the flop...he's calling it on the turn. Why bloat the pot?

[melaskins 0]

Fold PF.Why lead the flop? He opened, let him bet. Looks like a good spot for a semi-bluff CR.If he called 3k on the flop...he's calling it on the turn. Why bloat the pot?

Honestly, I called preflop because he minraised and I was suited. I also thought I might be able to pick up the pot on the flop with a pot sized bet. That's not a good reason to call but that is why I did it. I lead out on the flop to try to take it down, plus I had two draws at it. If he raised me there, I lay it down and smile. Looking back, if I check, he probably bets with his TP decent kicker. Then I raise to look like I have JQ and probably take it down. When he called and the turn paired me, I didn't put much thought into it and just fired from the hip. At that point, all I am looking for is a miracle club to give me a huge pot. Which is just slot machine poker.

[BeaverStyle 1]

Arn't you the same guy that keeps playing even when you found out that one of your employees is dying becaude he was in an accident? The truth is that the poker gods will never let you become a winning player. Just quit now, for the good of everyone.

stop trolling, troll.

Honestly, I called preflop because he minraised and I was suited.

Ugh, I still fold pre.As played, I probably check/raise this flop. No reason to lead out, especially if you're planning on folding to a raise w/ a flush draw+oesd. I don't understand the same bets on all 3 streets... care to explain that?edit: also,DON'T POST RESULTS

[melaskins 0]

J4 (even sooooted) is a piece of cheese. Especially against an early position raiser. Fold preflop and you won't find yourself in as many tough spots postflop.

I looked at the min raise as a weak steal from a guy that just lucked into a big pot. The guy on my right in sb was chip poor and liked folding more than I do. I really think that if I had been playing online and the same situation comes up, I lay it down with ease. I guess the best way to describe it is that it was an ego call.

[cdipierr 0]

Yea, fold PF.But once you've called, this is just about gin for your hand. Either shove or check-raise shove. You can't really be betting 3k of your 17.4k stack here for precisely the reason of what happened. If you shove and he folds, that's fine because we're ok with him folding something like AQ, AK or 66 If you shove and he calls, you get to see the rest of the board w/o being pushed off. If you check, he bets and you shove, you have the same spot.ETA: The JTo minraise guy is also horrible, so play with him more.

[qnshustler 0]

sooted shmooted, instafold preflop.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Fold PF, c/r flop. That board hits your BB defense range much harder than his EP opening range, and it will be near impossible for him to 3bet your c/r unless he has a set. WTF is going on on the turn and river? Why did your bet size never change? Do you understand how incredibly fishy that looks? Why did you bet the turn period? If he called the flop, he's calling the turn. If you want to double barrel at least make him pay for it. If you're going to triple barrel this, you need to think about what you are representing. The turn and river didnt help you nor him most likely, so by triple barreling you are really only repping two pair. No one is going to give you credit for a set or straight the way you bet this. And it seems to me that you were a little annoyed that he demanded you show him your hand. Is there a reason for that annoyance? You do know its his right after he calls you, right?

[Biff Goods 0]

Fold PF, c/r flop. That board hits your BB defense range much harder than his EP opening range, and it will be near impossible for him to 3bet your c/r unless he has a set. WTF is going on on the turn and river? Why did your bet size never change? Do you understand how incredibly fishy that looks? Why did you bet the turn period? If he called the flop, he's calling the turn. If you want to double barrel at least make him pay for it. If you're going to triple barrel this, you need to think about what you are representing. The turn and river didnt help you nor him most likely, so by triple barreling you are really only repping two pair. No one is going to give you credit for a set or straight the way you bet this. And it seems to me that you were a little annoyed that he demanded you show him your hand. Is there a reason for that annoyance? You do know its his right after he calls you, right?

I had a good reply well thought out until I read this one and realized it was almost verbatim. Especially this bolded part. After the flop you pretty much quick playing any type of "thinking" poker and fumbled your way through the hand.The only plus I see from this is you got to the river very, VERY cheap with a huge draw....but the implied odds were prolly not there anyway and there is no way I am EVER giving you credit for QJ with that betting line.....EVER

[melaskins 0]

Fold PF, c/r flop. That board hits your BB defense range much harder than his EP opening range, and it will be near impossible for him to 3bet your c/r unless he has a set. WTF is going on on the turn and river? Why did your bet size never change? Do you understand how incredibly fishy that looks? Why did you bet the turn period? If he called the flop, he's calling the turn. If you want to double barrel at least make him pay for it. If you're going to triple barrel this, you need to think about what you are representing. The turn and river didnt help you nor him most likely, so by triple barreling you are really only repping two pair. No one is going to give you credit for a set or straight the way you bet this. And it seems to me that you were a little annoyed that he demanded you show him your hand. Is there a reason for that annoyance? You do know its his right after he calls you, right?

Again, this type of hand/betting is a severe weakness in my game. The reason that I posted it here was not only to get opinions on every spot that I went wrong but to put thought into it, hoping that would help me to quit doing this kind of crap. That open min raise looked like a weak steal to me. I guess my call looked weak to him. Which it was. As far as my bet sizing, I think if I would have had a big chip lead, I probably would have doubled my bet on the turn. As it was, I was like the captain that was just stubborn enough to drown with his sinking row boat.I wasn't annoyed by him wanting to see my hand. I was embarrassed. And embarrassment is not good medicine for being on tilt.

[DemonDonk 0]

preflop:Fold>Raise>Call IMO.

[TrueAce13 18]

Yeah...everyone has the right idea on folding this PF. You don't want to get caught up with a garbage hand against one of the chip leaders at your table, especially since you are OOP. I can't say you should c/r or anything b/c that might give you the mindset that it is alright to play this horrible hand. FOLD PF!!!!!

[pokerinc 0]

bet folding that flop would be the worst play in this hand. Worse than limping which is bad.Bet shove or crai the flop is fine after you sucked yourself in.

[Biff Goods 0]

Again, this type of hand/betting is a severe weakness in my game. The reason that I posted it here was not only to get opinions on every spot that I went wrong but to put thought into it, hoping that would help me to quit doing this kind of crap. That open min raise looked like a weak steal to me. I guess my call looked weak to him. Which it was. As far as my bet sizing, I think if I would have had a big chip lead, I probably would have doubled my bet on the turn. As it was, I was like the captain that was just stubborn enough to drown with his sinking row boat.I wasn't annoyed by him wanting to see my hand. I was embarrassed. And embarrassment is not good medicine for being on tilt.

read a book or something on bet sizing....You don't realize how naive you are by making this statement.

[slink 1]

To answer the title of this thread is to say it's bad, really terribad.

[melaskins 0]

read a book or something on bet sizing....You don't realize how naive you are by making this statement.

You're right. I don't know how naive I am by making that statement. But I'll say this, my ego is not so big that I can't ask for advice on the subject. I'd love to hear some input on bet sizing post flop. Whether it pertains to this hand or not.

[bezeert_ps 0]

I think you both played the hand poorly but that's neither here nor there, limping in preflop isn't part of my game and limping in with weak/marginal hands isn't either. Neither of you represented strong hands.You were in the big blind, on a draw heavy board, and you bet like someone who limped in from the big blind and was chasing a flush/straight. Why that other guy called your flop bet is beyond me, if I can't raise you here to find out if you're for real or not then I don't belong in the hand. Calling you there is just a terrible play.I raise because I know you're betting the turn if I just call you and if the turn misses your draw, which it did, I'm forcing you to make a stronger bet on the turn or check to me if I raised your flop bet. If you make your flush, I lay down and get out of the hand with minimal loss. It sounds like you were in pretty good shape in the tourny, why play that hand at all at that point? And if you are, and are going to defend your blinds, you gotta commit to it and raise pre-flop not call a min-raise.