gibler321 1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 his call is completely standard. good input by some good players in this thread Link to post Share on other sites
Ship_itt 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I guess my thing is, "Would you ship AA or any other big hand with more than 12BBs?" Also, I was taught that once you have 12BBs you should be shipping almost ATC, I'm starting to see the trend to go higher, where it's fine to ship 16BBs. I guess it goes with the notion that poker is always changing and in order to be better we have to counteract and learn from those changes and use it to our advantage. Like maybe instead of 3x it with AA and 12-16bbs we can ship it and always get called by worse.ship 20bbs bvb with Q10o and ask djk why its profitable.. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 his call is completely standard. good input by some good players in this threadYeah, don't disagree with the call and I know that it's standard. My thing is that now regs pretty much know that other regs are now shipping almost ATC in spots like these and calling with A-rag or almost anything that beats that range is calling. So we're all playing that "I know that you know" game of poker which is why maybe just raising could be better and shoving premiums would also be better. IDK. Just some thoughts on the evolution of the game. Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yeah, don't disagree with the call and I know that it's standard. My thing is that now regs pretty much know that other regs are now shipping almost ATC in spots like these and calling with A-rag or almost anything that beats that range is calling. So we're all playing that "I know that you know" game of poker which is why maybe just raising could be better and shoving premiums would also be better. IDK. Just some thoughts on the evolution of the game.I mean ya it obv depends on the opponent and how he is going to react to different stuff. Sometimes, raise/calling will be better than shoving, but it def is very villain specific. Buy, shoving will ALWAYS be better than folding. Link to post Share on other sites
Naslund44 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 why cant we fold Q8 here? gib? whata? nnb? Link to post Share on other sites
gibler321 1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 why cant we fold Q8 here? gib? whata? nnb?i pick up the pot without showdown a big % of the time Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 why cant we fold Q8 here? gib? whata? nnb?because its unexploitable to shove.... Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 because its unexploitable to shove....Villain can call. Link to post Share on other sites
Dago 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 how about shoving only the top 75%-80%? you show you are capable of folds in situations where many push ATC. Is the extra credit you build up like that against regs worth it? or do you think they won't adjust their calling range because of it? Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 how about shoving only the top 75%-80%? you show you are capable of folds in situations where many push ATC. Is the extra credit you build up like that against regs worth it? or do you think they won't adjust their calling range because of it?Because then you really never give yourself a chance to win by accumulating chips. Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Villain can call. what? im 95% sure its unexploitable ....even if it isnt, noone is calling you correctly... Link to post Share on other sites
Teck_72 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Wow great thread for info.. thanks guys. A lot.Got a lot of great info about stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Wow great thread for info.. thanks guys. A lot.Got a lot of great info about stuff.ya it is for sure....fwiw tho ive noticed a lot of fcpers recently ask tons of different questions that all can be solved easily by the use of pokerstove and putting in a small amount of effort. So, I guess I just reccommend people to play around with math and pokerstove a lot more because it seems to be a pretty big leak for fcpers. Link to post Share on other sites
The Phoenix 0 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 ya it is for sure....fwiw tho ive noticed a lot of fcpers recently ask tons of different questions that all can be solved easily by the use of pokerstove and putting in a small amount of effort. So, I guess I just reccommend people to play around with math and pokerstove a lot more because it seems to be a pretty big leak for fcpers.I want to echo want NNB said. Doing work on pokerstove and figuring out calling ranges when getting a certain price is crucial to becoming a better player and fixing leaks. If you haven't used pokerstove you will be very surprised at the results you will get when doing this calculations. All those times you said in chat "how can you called me with that BS hand?". You were most likely the one who didn't know he was supposed to call you with that hand (if he assigned you the proper range). If you are wondering why you aren't accumulating chips like other players and always 7-9 going into the final table or 14 of 18 going into the last two tables this is probably one of the reasons why. You are passing up to many edges. This is especially true as we approach the endgame when the blinds and antes get very high. You are going to be getting 1.5 or 2 to 1 to call a lot of the time and you'll be shocked at how wide you should be calling in those cases. I would also like to look at the other side of the coin. From my own experiences when I have experimented with implementing new things into my game, I often have immediate success followed by a significant downswings thereafter. Fancy play syndrome. It happened when I became squeeze happy or re-steal happy. Using pot odds, calculating the equity you need to call and inputting how your hand fares against your opponents range is essential for success, so it has nothing to do with fancy play syndrome. However, there is a variable involved. The hand range of your opponent. It's up to you to assign that range. When I first started using pokerstove and did all the work I started playing like a robot. I was just assuming a guy would resteal wide against LP range even though I had no evidence (read) to support it. I wasn't adjusting my ranges well enough for regulars vs randoms. I wasn't using my reads to help me assign a range. So use pokerstove, it will make you better, but it can get you into just as many problems as not using it if you can't assign a proper range. Instead of not calling wide enough you might start calling too wide which can be exploited. Link to post Share on other sites
Tehtoe 3 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I want to echo want NNB said. Doing work on pokerstove and figuring out calling ranges when getting a certain price is crucial to becoming a better player and fixing leaks. If you haven't used pokerstove you will be very surprised at the results you will get when doing this calculations. All those times you said in chat "how can you called me with that BS hand?". You were most likely the one who didn't know he was supposed to call you with that hand (if he assigned you the proper range). If you are wondering why you aren't accumulating chips like other players and always 7-9 going into the final table or 14 of 18 going into the last two tables this is probably one of the reasons why. You are passing up to many edges. This is especially true as we approach the endgame when the blinds and antes get very high. You are going to be getting 1.5 or 2 to 1 to call a lot of the time and you'll be shocked at how wide you should be calling in those cases. I would also like to look at the other side of the coin. From my own experiences when I have experimented with implementing new things into my game, I often have immediate success followed by a significant downswings thereafter. Fancy play syndrome. It happened when I became squeeze happy or re-steal happy. Using pot odds, calculating the equity you need to call and inputting how your hand fares against your opponents range is essential for success, so it has nothing to do with fancy play syndrome. However, there is a variable involved. The hand range of your opponent. It's up to you to assign that range. When I first started using pokerstove and did all the work I started playing like a robot. I was just assuming a guy would resteal wide against LP range even though I had no evidence (read) to support it. I wasn't adjusting my ranges well enough for regulars vs randoms. I wasn't using my reads to help me assign a range. So use pokerstove, it will make you better, but it can get you into just as many problems as not using it if you can't assign a proper range. Instead of not calling wide enough you might start calling too wide which can be exploited.this + what nnb said x100000000000000 Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I want to echo want NNB said. Doing work on pokerstove and figuring out calling ranges when getting a certain price is crucial to becoming a better player and fixing leaks. If you haven't used pokerstove you will be very surprised at the results you will get when doing this calculations. All those times you said in chat "how can you called me with that BS hand?". You were most likely the one who didn't know he was supposed to call you with that hand (if he assigned you the proper range). If you are wondering why you aren't accumulating chips like other players and always 7-9 going into the final table or 14 of 18 going into the last two tables this is probably one of the reasons why. You are passing up to many edges. This is especially true as we approach the endgame when the blinds and antes get very high. You are going to be getting 1.5 or 2 to 1 to call a lot of the time and you'll be shocked at how wide you should be calling in those cases. I would also like to look at the other side of the coin. From my own experiences when I have experimented with implementing new things into my game, I often have immediate success followed by a significant downswings thereafter. Fancy play syndrome. It happened when I became squeeze happy or re-steal happy. Using pot odds, calculating the equity you need to call and inputting how your hand fares against your opponents range is essential for success, so it has nothing to do with fancy play syndrome. However, there is a variable involved. The hand range of your opponent. It's up to you to assign that range. When I first started using pokerstove and did all the work I started playing like a robot. I was just assuming a guy would resteal wide against LP range even though I had no evidence (read) to support it. I wasn't adjusting my ranges well enough for regulars vs randoms. I wasn't using my reads to help me assign a range. So use pokerstove, it will make you better, but it can get you into just as many problems as not using it if you can't assign a proper range. Instead of not calling wide enough you might start calling too wide which can be exploited. this is a reallllly realllly good post Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 sigh. Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I prefer snapping with KTo than A5, for example. Even sooted connectors as low as 78.Am I focusing too much on calling range here? I'm not sure I can assume that most people will be shoving atc from SB here. I'm simply concerned that the shover has an A most times they are hving into a larger stack. http://www.pokerstove.com/also... as soon as you realize why the bolded is possibly one of the stupidest things i've heard in a while... you might see some improvement in your play. Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 http://www.pokerstove.com/also... as soon as you realize why the bolded is possibly one of the stupidest things i've heard in a while... you might see some improvement in your play.i was wondering if anyone was going to say anything Link to post Share on other sites
Knollie919 0 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 which program should i download?there are 3 on the list Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 which program should i download?there are 3 on the listi was wondering the smae thing, i went with 1.23 just because it is the biggest number. i hope i was right lol Link to post Share on other sites
gibler321 1 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 well said phoenix Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 If you are serious about poker you have to have pokerstove. Its just such a good tool to check spots, ranges and to actually quantify if a play you are making is correct or not, if calling off on a draw is correct etc. Link to post Share on other sites
lurbz 2 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 If you are serious about poker you have to have pokerstove. Its just such a good tool to check spots, ranges and to actually quantify if a play you are making is correct or not, if calling off on a draw is correct etc.Anyone got a Mac version then? I've not been able to find one, and I don't believe it exists. Link to post Share on other sites
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