Dirtydutch 8 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Anyone know where I can find some decent, unbiased information on this, or even just happen to know a lot about it? Link to post Share on other sites
Swift_Psycho 1 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Your question interests me when thinking specifically of the resurrection. I don't have any info to help you, but exactly what are you looking for regarding Christ supposedly resurrecting? I mean, logically speaking, there isn't any "likelihood" of a man coming back to life after having died. The "likelihood" is zero percent. Do you actually mean the possibility that he didn't really die while up on the cross or something along those lines? Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 Your question interests me when thinking specifically of the resurrection. I don't have any info to help you, but exactly what are you looking for regarding Christ supposedly resurrecting? I mean, logically speaking, there isn't any "likelihood" of a man coming back to life after having died.I've now heard several people insistent that it's as well-documented and provable as an event in history, and the only real explanation I get beyond that is instruction to read some extremely biased-sounding book. I'd like to know where this is coming from, any counter-points to it, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
BigLebowski 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Hmm. From what I have read there is very very very very very very little account of Jesus's life, let alone a resurrection......from historians that is. And before you ask...no, I don't consider the bible a historical reference. Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 For your reading pleasure:http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/res...on-evidence.htm Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 2 different questions. it's easy to make a statistical argument based on historical pattern that there's a high probability the gospel stories of jesus refer to an actual person. the truth of metaphysical claims in ancient writings is a different matter obviously, since there is no evidence any of them are even possible, and there is plenty of evidence that ancient humans were prone to believing things that are false. the bible by itself isn't evidence for the resurrection any more than the iliad is evidence greek gods existed or the koran is evidence muhammad was instructed by an angel, even though the iliad describes places that actually existed and muhammad was a real person. considering what science has taught us about the world the probability of all of these ancient metaphysical claims being anything more than fables that grew from primitive superstitious minds is effectively zero. Link to post Share on other sites
KramitDaToad 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 For your reading pleasure:http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/res...on-evidence.htm lolzThe article assumes that Jesus existed He was crucified The Bible is a true and correct eye-witness account Apart from that it's spot onI mean if you assume the Bible is true you can prove the stories within it are true. It's easy Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 For your reading pleasure:http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/res...on-evidence.htm this statement sums up how ludicrous the whole article is:Objection 2: You can't trust documents. Paper proves nothing. Anything can be forged.Reply: This is simply ignorance. Not trusting documents is like not trusting telescopes. Paper evidence suffices for most of what we believe; why should it suddenly become suspect here? Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 lolzThe article assumes that Jesus existed He was crucified The Bible is a true and correct eye-witness account Apart from that it's spot onI mean if you assume the Bible is true you can prove the stories within it are true. It's easy You doubt Jesus existed?You doubt Jesus was crucified?Wow.Now you are being childish.... I didn't expect that from you.Do you also doubt Columbus discovered America? or that Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity? Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyJoJo 18 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Anyone know where I can find some decent, unbiased information on the historical likelihood of Christopher Columbus' life and discovery of America, or even just happen to know a lot about it?Oh sure, I can tell you all about it. First, let's just assume he's a real person and did exist... Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Do you also doubt Columbus discovered America?um, I hope so? Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 You doubt Jesus existed?You doubt Jesus was crucified?Wow.Now you are being childish.... I didn't expect that from you.Do you also doubt Columbus discovered America? or that Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity?How is that childish?? That makes no sense to me. You believe one thing and he believes another and he is childish for not sharing the same belief. I think you're the one that is closer to being a child.Do you actually believe Columbus discovered America? You would be wrong...Do you actually believe Bennie discovered electricity? You would be wrong there as well... Bennie just found a relationship between lightning and electricity. That is not discovering electricity. You might want to learn about Mr. Volta. Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 um, I hope so?OK...bad example...LOL Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 How is that childish?? That makes no sense to me. You believe one thing and he believes another and he is childish for not sharing the same belief. I think you're the one that is closer to being a child.Do you actually believe Columbus discovered America? You would be wrong...Do you actually believe Bennie discovered electricity? You would be wrong there as well... Bennie just found a relationship between lightning and electricity. That is not discovering electricity. You might want to learn about Mr. Volta.Mr. Johntra Volta? Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Mr. Johntra Volta? THAT's the funniest thing I've read in days... well done! Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Of course there's no unbiased documentation of Jesus' resurrection. As for his life, I'm not sure. It would surprise me if he never existed and led a religious group. Back then they were probably considered a cult, though. Your question interests me when thinking specifically of the resurrection. I don't have any info to help you, but exactly what are you looking for regarding Christ supposedly resurrecting? I mean, logically speaking, there isn't any "likelihood" of a man coming back to life after having died. The "likelihood" is zero percent. Do you actually mean the possibility that he didn't really die while up on the cross or something along those lines?The likelihood isn't zero. It's just so close to zero that it's kind of crazy to believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it really happened as opposed to having been exaggerated by a group of followers who either lied, were mislead, or played a historically important game of 'telephone'. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Mr. Johntra Volta?Greased Lightning obv Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Debate from February a couple years ago at iowa State University that I was at about this very topic.Hector Avalos, one of the leading atheists in the country.Dr. William Craig, Christian dude.http://www.stickam.com/editMediaComment.do...p;mId=176385562 Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Hector Avalos, one of the leading atheists in the country.For some reason that statement is funny to me. I don't feel like listening...how's it turn out? Other than you agreeing with the Christian guy, that is.edit: Ok, I listened. Obviously I would be on the atheist's side of things, so there's no point in my saying that I thought he "won" the debate. The biggest thing I noticed is that the atheist showed pretty convincingly that the christian was using very shaky "evidence" for the resurrection. And the second biggest was the amazing fact that the christian, even with multiple phd's, doesn't seem to understand that the burdon of proof is completely on him. Oh, and the atheist dude's answer to the typical "if it didn't really happen, why would they be willing to die" question was great. And how freakin obnoxious was that Jew? Man, do my people suck. Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 For some reason that statement is funny to me. I don't feel like listening...how's it turn out? Other than you agreeing with the Christian guy, that is.Yeah, I too was drawn to that title. How does one earn the title "Leading Atheist?" I haven't watched the video either, but I'm going to guess one becomes a Leading Atheist, in the eyes of the religious, by being an atheist and performing poorly in an arbitrary debate of some kind. I know it's at least how I would pick. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Rabbi Jesus: An Intimate Biography by Bruce Chilton is a great book. I highly recommend it. Link to post Share on other sites
longshottwelve 0 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Weird that I just saw this thread. Just came back from a funeral today and this guy was preaching that no one had any evidence to disprove that Jesus was resurrected, ergo there was 100% certainty that heaven existed. Don't know how he came to that conclusion, but I feel guilty for laughing at a funeral. Link to post Share on other sites
KramitDaToad 0 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 You doubt Jesus existed?You doubt Jesus was crucified?Wow.Now you are being childish.... I didn't expect that from you.Do you also doubt Columbus discovered America? or that Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity?I suspect that you are levelling. If not, I feel really sorry for you. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Yeah, I too was drawn to that title. How does one earn the title "Leading Atheist?" I haven't watched the video either, but I'm going to guess one becomes a Leading Atheist, in the eyes of the religious, by being an atheist and performing poorly in an arbitrary debate of some kind. I know it's at least how I would pick.Google his name. He's no joke in the world of atheism. I think that if you get paid to travel the country and talk about atheism, that makes you a leading member of a group. I took 3 of his classes on the Bible and I respect him alot. I actually went up on stage and shook his hand after the debate and even though I hadn't taken his class in 7 years, and Iowa State has 26,000 students, he immediately said, "Mr. Andrus... it's been a long time." I posted it only because I thought it would help answer your question. I believe that Hector Avalos clearly won the debate, I just happen to not agree with his conclusions. I don't sandbag. I'm glad speedz listened to it.from wikipedia:Hector Avalos (b. Nogales, Sonora, México, October 8, 1958) is an atheist professor of Religious Studies at Iowa State University and the author of several books about religion.[1] Avalos is a former editor of the Journal for the Critical Study of Religion. He is a former Pentecostal preacher and child evangelist. Recognized as one of the foremost scholars of health care in the ancient world, Avalos is also one of the most prominent secular humanist biblical scholars today.He has a Doctor of Philosophy in Hebrew Bible and Near Eastern Studies from Harvard University (1991), Master of Theological Studies from Harvard Divinity School (1985), and a Bachelor of Arts in Anthropology from University of Arizona in 1982. Link to post Share on other sites
Don Giovanni 0 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 You doubt Jesus existed?You doubt Jesus was crucified?Wow.Now you are being childish.... I didn't expect that from you.Do you also doubt Columbus discovered America? or that Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity?huh. every word of this post is ignorant nonsense. and both of your genius examples are incorrect! wtf? ahhh! do you really exist??? seriously i dont think i could purposefully make a post as retarded as this one. you must be a joke account. Link to post Share on other sites
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