Lhe Challenge(?) Thread

[sinc 0]

How to properly execute the open-farrellPokerStars Game #19628082311: Hold'em Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/08/15 - 01:22:39 (ET)Table 'Enterprise' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: car_sue21 ($34 in chips) Seat 2: PTBalloon ($86 in chips) Seat 3: RichNutz ($63.50 in chips) Seat 4: EZ_Haus ($50 in chips) Seat 5: AlphaKew ($34.50 in chips) DEWEYCHEATAM will be allowed to play after the buttoncar_sue21: posts small blind $1PTBalloon: posts big blind $2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to PTBalloon [7d Jh]RichNutz: folds EZ_Haus: raises $2 to $4AlphaKew: folds car_sue21: folds PTBalloon: calls $2*** FLOP *** [Qc Qs 4c]PTBalloon: folds EZ_Haus collected $9 from potEZ_Haus: shows [Qd Js] (three of a kind, Queens)

Step 1: call flopStep 2: C/R turnStep 3:????Step 4: Profit

[Flushgarden 0]

How to properly execute the open-farrellPokerStars Game #19628082311: Hold'em Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/08/15 - 01:22:39 (ET)Table 'Enterprise' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: car_sue21 ($34 in chips) Seat 2: PTBalloon ($86 in chips) Seat 3: RichNutz ($63.50 in chips) Seat 4: EZ_Haus ($50 in chips) Seat 5: AlphaKew ($34.50 in chips) DEWEYCHEATAM will be allowed to play after the buttoncar_sue21: posts small blind $1PTBalloon: posts big blind $2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to PTBalloon [7d Jh]RichNutz: folds EZ_Haus: raises $2 to $4AlphaKew: folds car_sue21: folds PTBalloon: calls $2*** FLOP *** [Qc Qs 4c]PTBalloon: folds EZ_Haus collected $9 from potEZ_Haus: shows [Qd Js] (three of a kind, Queens)

You should be letting that go preflop most of the time...but if you're calling because you knew it would be the perfect opportunity to open-farrel and fuck with his head then well played.

[Dirtydutch 8]

I'm down 112BB since lunch. Solution: play 'til I'm even(/broke), then stopping mid-orbit to avoid booking a loss. Plan formulated: Go!

I actually ended that session up 17 bets. My even-getting system is pretty awesome, if you ignore math. And as a Christian, I'm already doing that.

[DoinSublime 0]

Omg, its finally sunny out. Trying to sneak in a few hands now before off to the beach. Still trying to think of how to make a sand castle graph that will take a good picture.edit - nice comeback dutch.

[qyayqi 11]

Omg, its finally sunny out. Trying to sneak in a few hands now before off to the beach. Still trying to think of how to make a sand castle graph that will take a good picture.edit - nice comeback dutch.

easiest would be to lay something colourful on the ground, and cover it bottom-to-top in a graph-like fashion. or take a painted board & pile the sand up against it. if the board is white, take along a marker to write in details in the corner like in most of the graps.

[DoinSublime 0]

Snuck in 100 hands. Got KK AA KK QQ in the first 26 hands. Down 22 big bets of course. Off I go.d'oh - hit a set of fives on an aggro. -9 big bets now. ill take it.

[navybuttons 15]

You should be letting that go preflop most of the time.

why?and don't just say because we have a dominated hand OOP. that's way too easy of an answer.

[GWCGWC 83]

You know you're in a good live game and your image is perfect when; You're in the BB with KK. FIVE limpers, you raise, everyone calls. Flop K106 two clubs. You bet and get...........FIVE callers. Turn 7x. You bet and get.......FIVE callers.River 5 clubs. You check and get......five CHECKERS! Table the KK and scoop a big pot. I'd like to know what everyone had but there's no HH button in live games. Oh, and I booked a solid 80BB win.

[Zach6668 513]

Why the eff would you check the river?

[GWCGWC 83]

oops, river was a club. edited

[Zach6668 513]

oops, river was a club. edited

Ah, makes much more sense.

[navybuttons 15]

ship today's current 125BB downswing

[Flushgarden 0]

ship today's current 125BB downswing

Maybe fold J7o in the bb to an utg+1 raise more?Just kidding...but seriously if you're saying folding it in the bb is wrong then I have serious flaws (well I'm sure I have serious flaws but I didnt know this was one of them if it is). But um, not only are we out of position and easily dominated like you said, but rarely are we going to hit a flop that we can feel good about, and even if we catch a piece we're going to be oop, without initiative, and unsure of where we're at the whole way. Yeah its 1/2 of a BB but its usually gonna cost us 2.5 more bbs to see a showdown. So we're not really calling 1/2 of a bb for a chance to win 1.75 bbs (which looks like fairly good odds), we're usually calling 3 bbs for a chance to make 4 and J7o isnt strong enough to pull that off vs the average villains range. Am I wrong?What are your thoughts? What about J6o? Q8o? K4o? J3s? Do you suggest calling with them as well?

[GWCGWC 83]

PLO betting pot question:Playing live 2/5 SHPLO 5 players. We all agreed to play PLO but have to tell the casino we are playing NL PLO so they will reduce the rake from $3 per hand(flop and drop) to $1 per hand at $10. This is why I have a question about the pot bet. I have $250 total from a starting stack of $500 before the hand and feel somewhat short stacked. I limp from UTG-$5MP limps-$5 button raises to $25SB calls $25BB calls $25I want to raise pot but I'm unsure what that would be and since we've agreed to play PLO but the dealer has to consider it NL, I can't just say pot and let the dealer figure it out. My understanding is that I can raise the pot size plus the original raise so my pot bet would be $210? $85+$20 x 2?

[sinc 0]

Maybe fold J7o in the bb to an utg+1 raise more?Just kidding...but seriously if you're saying folding it in the bb is wrong then I have serious flaws (well I'm sure I have serious flaws but I didnt know this was one of them if it is). But um, not only are we out of position and easily dominated like you said, but rarely are we going to hit a flop that we can feel good about, and even if we catch a piece we're going to be oop, without initiative, and unsure of where we're at the whole way. Yeah its 1/2 of a BB but its usually gonna cost us 2.5 more bbs to see a showdown. So we're not really calling 1/2 of a bb for a chance to win 1.75 bbs (which looks like fairly good odds), we're usually calling 3 bbs for a chance to make 4 and J7o isnt strong enough to pull that off vs the average villains range. Am I wrong?What are your thoughts? What about J6o? Q8o? K4o? J3s? Do you suggest calling with them as well?

It really depends on the skill level of the opponent situationally, but from reading your posts I think you probably don't defend your BB enough. J7 in the BB 5 handed unless the UTG is really good or a super nit I would defend 100 percent.

[Flushgarden 0]

It really depends on the skill level of the opponent situationally, but from reading your posts I think you probably don't defend your BB enough. J7 in the BB 5 handed unless the UTG is really good or a super nit I would defend 100 percent.

Lets get deeper into this. I'm not very good at math so I may need some help with this. 5 handed, utg+1 raises. We have no reads and we're at 2/4 in the example, so what kind of hand range can you give the villain? How does J7o compare to his range? I'd say a standard villain in that position could probably raise with 66, 77, 88, 99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, J10s, QJo, QJs, K10s, KJo, KJs, QKo, QKs, A9o, A9s, A10o, A10s, AJo, AJs, AQo, AQs, AKo, AKs.We're getting 3.5-1 to call one raise in the bb, but to win at showdown a lot of the time we're going to have to put in 3 big bets to win 4.25 How many of these hands are we getting the mathematically correct price to call and see a flop with? Most of them, especially the unpaired hands that don't dominate us, right? But how many of these hands are we getting the right price to showdown with? Of course sometimes we might get off free on the river, but there will also be times when we put in extra bets when we're behind. There will also be times when we make a hand that we determine is ahead of his likely holdings we bet, and the villain folds without putting in 2.5 more big bets. Determining the true odds seems extremely difficult, at least to me. Also, can we determine the mean value of the hands in his range and compare it to J7o? I guess I'm having some trouble bridging the gap between the flop and the showdown (or fold). I still dont see defending with J7o vs an unknown villain...although it could be fairly close. If it were sooted it would be a lot closer for me. If it is correct, can anybody tell me precisely why? The math aspect of the game is something need to work on. There are a lot of dark corners in poker math that most people never bother to look into because you don't really have to in order to beat soft games. I know something like this is only the beginning and there are things that are a lot more complex, want to get out the flashlight...even if I do suck at math.

[navybuttons 15]

We're getting 3.5-1 to call one raise in the bb

if villain cbets 100% we're getting 4-1. i think the range you posted is too tight (like he should have more hands in his range there). of course, i don't know specific villains. anyway, against that range even 3-1 is a good enough price.you answered my question so if there are more math questions you have just PM me and i'll try and point you in the right direction.

[Dirtydutch 8]

I'm beginning to think I start out every session on tilt. I constantly begin by going down like 50BB or so, then mounting a heroic comeback. It seems to happen too often for it to not be my fault, at least partially.

[DoinSublime 0]

I'm beginning to think I start out every session on tilt. I constantly begin by going down like 50BB or so, then mounting a heroic comeback. It seems to happen too often for it to not be my fault, at least partially.

Ive felt that way too a bunch, dutch.edit - still getting fisted with a pickaxe the last few days overall.

[Dirtydutch 8]

Here's a question I should know the answer to but don't: in a 9/10 hand LHE game, how many hands/h should I be seeing per table?

[Dirtydutch 8]

edit - still getting fisted with a pickaxe the last few days overall.

LHE was invent for two reasons: to make me rich and to make me realize that God hates me and wants me to kill myself. I pretty much never feel the means; it's either me laughing in arrogance at the play going on around me or me back in my chair, resigned to my fate of poverty, because there's no way these things happen to anyone but me.

[DoinSublime 0]

I hear that. ^ :)I dont know about full ring dutch. But I'll say this, which may impact your LP play a little? I make a lot more profit running around 40/20ish than 30/20ish.I'm guessing how the 88/99/QJs/KTs/ATo type hands are played in those first three early positions at fr have something to do with the answer, which is another way of me saying I dont know. Bob please. :)The stox book goes into it a bit, along the lines of limp/rr AA as well as your 88/99's for the implied odds as well as the balance of your ranges, which all takes a back seat to table dynamics and especially how the blinds play (getting that dead money in the pot or having it defended tenaciously from the bb).Just my thoughts on how I would think of it if I was to transition from 6 max. Someone else please help me out.But, definitely learn to play 6 max. I have a guy on my left right now folding every one of his bb's, which actually is a higher expectation per big bet than if I was to showdown all but the very top % of hands (so I read, what do I know ).

[DoinSublime 0]

Havent shared a hand in a while. This was the 2nd to last orbit after I had opened up just recently and started pounding with some 86s and 65s to open from the h/j, etc. I won a few of them to feel confident here in my caps with an under-repped hand, just missed the river one. PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Preflop: Hero is MP with A , A . UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG caps, Hero calls.Flop: (11.50 SB) 7 , 5 , J (2 players)UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.Turn: (11.25 BB) 6 (2 players)UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.River: (22.25 BB) T (2 players)UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 29.25 BBResults in white below: UTG has Kh Ks (one pair, kings). Hero has Ah Ad (one pair, aces). Outcome: Hero wins 29.25 BB.

[Dirtydutch 8]

Took me a second to figure out what you were saying there.I wasn't asking for PF range advice, I was just wondering how many hands you'd estimate I'd be dealt on average. Somehow I can't find this stat in my records anywhere. I'm guess around 80 per table per hour? way off?

[Dirtydutch 8]

Havent shared a hand in a while. This was the 2nd to last orbit after I had opened up just recently and started pounding with some 86s and 65s to open from the h/j, etc. I won a few of them to feel confident here in my caps with an under-repped hand, just missed the river one. PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Preflop: Hero is MP with A , A . UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG caps, Hero calls.Flop: (11.50 SB) 7 , 5 , J (2 players)UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.Turn: (11.25 BB) 6 (2 players)UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.River: (22.25 BB) T (2 players)UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 29.25 BBResults in white below: UTG has Kh Ks (one pair, kings). Hero has Ah Ad (one pair, aces). Outcome: Hero wins 29.25 BB.

Seems a like a bit of a spew to cap the end, in my ignorant opinion.