Convert Me...

[crowTrobot 2]

Best way to convert to atheism;1st: Define God in a shallow way, making Him nothing more than a big one of you. It works really well to consider Him to be unwilling to fix things, this allows you to further define Him down to a level you feel comfortable judging Him.2nd: While you are judging God, make sure you add in how you would do it different if you were God. This will further the feeling that you are 'in the know' about the whole universe and allow you to further deflate god to a small g.3rd: Find bad examples of some of God's followers. Place a broad brush stroke on them as being indicitive of all of God's children. Extra credit here if you include a child molester, or a person that stole money.4th Trust in your desire to go against the flow and rebel against the establishment. This feeling is obviously right since every guy goes through it.5th: Take courses from people that do not believe in God, and have found examples that allow them to keep this belief. Ignore any doubts about holes in these theories. In fact no longer call them theories, uinstead talk about them as if they are 'known facts'. Look smugly at people that believe different.6th: Get used to using phrases like: "If you knew anything about science", " Some guy selling books to gullible Christians", "It's really sad how little you know about science". Use these phrases liberally.7th: Ignore that tugging at your mind that tells you there is more to life than the tangible. Try to group all metaphysical subjects in with UFOs and cattle mutalations.8th: Hope you are right when you die, cause if you're wrong, you will be sorry.there is more, but this should get you started on the long and lonely road towards nihlism

trying to push buttons : )the last thing is pretty bad, though. saying lack of belief in your god leads to nihilism is so pretentious and elitist that it's likely to have the opposite effect of what you intend.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

And are you seriously using the IRS as an arbiter of right and wrong???? You, Balloon Guy??? I'm stunned.

[timwakefield 68]

8th: Hope you are right when you die, cause if you're wrong, you will be sorry.

I heard that if you don't accept Tom Cruise as your savior and redeemer, you will go to an icy, bleak hell, but if you do accept Him you will have happiness for eternity.I mean, you might as well accept him right? Like, what's the harm compared to the possible ramifications of being wrong?

[timwakefield 68]

Good use of number 6 so far

Um, really? Cuz you are confusing me if you really mean that...My post was nothing about science and whether you are right or wrong. My post is about the fact that you seem to think an atheist must accept God before rejecting him.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

trying to push buttons : )the last thing is pretty bad, though. saying lack of belief in your god leads to nihilism is so pretentious and elitist that it's likely to have the opposite effect of what you intend.

Yep. Uh-oh, I see a forum with talk of comparative religion, relativism, textbooks, what actually defines a religion, and a lot of people saying it's okay to believe what you want without anyone judging them for it! Better break that up!Christians only seem to understand nihilism as it relates to christianity, not as a worldview that addresses things beyond one religion. In other words, their understanding is partial at best.

[checkymcfold 0]

can someone explain to me why we're all fighting to appear so ****ing different from one another? like, seriously. being christian and being atheist don't need to be thought any differently from one another than being right- or left-handed.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

trying to push buttons : )

That's basically it really. I frankly don't believe that Balloon Guy is ignorant about the fact that he is heavily strawmanning the position for atheism. He's really just looking to incite about 70 responses which will flame him cause he's bored.I don't know much about balloon guy though, so maybe I'm wrong. I really don't care either way. I'm equally bored so I posted a response with said hypothesis.

[Balloon guy 158]

BG, at some point you really need to admit that you're the prime example of someone who really doesn't understand most science and therefore has no leg to stand on when arguing that people shouldn't tell you that you don't understand the science behind why a lot of your beliefs are near-impossibilities.Wrap your head around that sentence...it's a doozy.<3

So you're saying there is a chance?I know enough about many things to know that my level of competance is lacking. But having read things I can barely understand that do give my side credence doesn't make me any more intelligant. so rather than quote things I don't really understand, such as protein binding in cells, or magnetic pattern interfaces with simultaneous amino acid mutations being necessary for a new binding site in cellular structure in malaria, I instead prefer to enjoy pulling the chains of people who freely spread prejoratives while looking down on us po simple Christians.Being right is a side benefit.So I argue like I talk

[Balloon guy 158]

trying to push buttons : )the last thing is pretty bad, though. saying lack of belief in your god leads to nihilism is so pretentious and elitist that it's likely to have the opposite effect of what you intend.

For this to be true you must assume I am thinking about what I write.You are wrong about that also

[Balloon guy 158]

can someone explain to me why we're all fighting to appear so ****ing different from one another? like, seriously. being christian and being atheist don't need to be thought any differently from one another than being right- or left-handed.

But Right handed > Left HandedIt's science

[Balloon guy 158]

Um, really? Cuz you are confusing me if you really mean that...My post was nothing about science and whether you are right or wrong. My post is about the fact that you seem to think an atheist must accept God before rejecting him.

Just pointing out your free use of the "ridiculousness of believing in God".When you poison the argument like this, you deserve for your chain to be pulled.And we're just the guys to do it.

[Balloon guy 158]

And are you seriously using the IRS as an arbiter of right and wrong???? You, Balloon Guy??? I'm stunned.

Hey I put half their kids through college, we're family.

[timwakefield 68]

Just pointing out your free use of the "ridiculousness of believing in God".When you poison the argument like this, you deserve for your chain to be pulled.And we're just the guys to do it.

From my perspective it is ridiculous, so my point is that I don't accept the question of whether he exists or not.

[Balloon guy 158]

From my perspective it is ridiculous, so my point is that I don't accept the question of whether he exists or not.

So you have faith God doesn't exist?

[Southern Buddhist 1]

So you have faith God doesn't exist?

Faith isn't in doubt here. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, and that a big guy can beat me up, and that Shakespeare is a better writer than most. I don't have faith in the stories in the Bible. Nor do I have faith that Mars is inhabited by little green men, or that the Mayan calendar predicts the end of the world.Having faith in some things does not demand that we have faith in absolutely everything under the sun. Having no faith in the god of the bible does not mean that we have faith in nothing at all. It doesn't mean that for you, either, since you obviously don't have faith in Ganesha or Krishna.In fact, one of my favorite observations re: theism/atheism is that Christians doubt the existence of the gods (Greek: theos) of Hinduism, Allah, Shinto, Norse, Greek, and Roman mythology, and literally thousands of other gods. Atheists just doubt the existence of one more.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

So you have faith God doesn't exist?

oh god, no one's dumb enough to take that bait, I hope.

[Balloon guy 158]

Faith isn't in doubt here. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, and that a big guy can beat me up, and that Shakespeare is a better writer than most. I don't have faith in the stories in the Bible. Nor do I have faith that Mars is inhabited by little green men, or that the Mayan calendar predicts the end of the world.Having faith in some things does not demand that we have faith in absolutely everything under the sun. Having no faith in the god of the bible does not mean that we have faith in nothing at all. It doesn't mean that for you, either, since you obviously don't have faith in Ganesha or Krishna.In fact, one of my favorite observations re: theism/atheism is that Christians doubt the existence of the gods (Greek: theos) of Hinduism, Allah, Shinto, Norse, Greek, and Roman mythology, and literally thousands of other gods. Atheists just doubt the existence of one more.

Yea, the whole we just don't believe in one more God than you is real catchy. Kind of catch phrase that sell books to gullible people.Not believing in the truth doesn't make you noble, regardless of your desire to be right, or your amount of effort to prove you are right. Having a catchy phrase doesn't give you extra credit, if you fail the rest of the test.Believing you have enough information in the entire universe to argue that you know how it was formed...I'm going to let you hang yourselves out with that line of thinking.My faith that God made it is only faith, and that not of myself, it was a gift of God, lest any man should boast.Don't mind me though. I got kicked out of Jr high school and was not allowed to attend the continuation school. So I am mostly ignorant, which explains my being a Christian.I just like to pull the chains of their slavery every now and then. Some people don't want to be free.

[Balloon guy 158]

oh god, no one's dumb enough to take that bait, I hope.

I had such a good response prepared.I think I need to learn to be more subtle.How about: So you feel you are sure there is no God?

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Yea, the whole we just don't believe in one more God than you is real catchy.

So show me how it's inaccurate.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I had such a good response prepared.I think I need to learn to be more subtle.How about: So you feel you are sure there is no God?

hey, sorry, I didn't mean to hate on the game you were running on the religious forum newbies lol

[Balloon guy 158]

So show me how it's inaccurate.

You are placing equal value on all religions, then trying to equate not believing in one as being exactly equal to not agreeing with all of them.This needs for all religions to be false in order for there to be any value in the statement.I believe the best way to get to Hawaii in under 10 hours to be flight, You say you don't believe flying would get you there, nor would bus travel, or skateboarding, or a pogo stick etc etc. You are not making the truth that flight would be the only answer, just because you are showing me so many other examples that are wrong.

[Balloon guy 158]

hey, sorry, I didn't mean to hate on the game you were running on the religious forum newbies lol

Next time check with me please.Man it takes weeks sometimes to get the right thread, get the right responses etc.Not that I think Tim would have really fallen for it.

[checkymcfold 0]

You are placing equal value on all religions, then trying to equate not believing in one as being exactly equal to not agreeing with all of them.This needs for all religions to be false in order for there to be any value in the statement.I believe the best way to get to Hawaii in under 10 hours to be flight, You say you don't believe flying would get you there, nor would bus travel, or skateboarding, or a pogo stick etc etc. You are not making the truth that flight would be the only answer, just because you are showing me so many other examples that are wrong.

i don't think this is the point. i would hope that religion has more value to you than just being right. religions can have equal value without even worrying about truth/faslity.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

i don't think this is the point. i would hope that religion has more value to you than just being right. religions can have equal value without even worrying about truth/faslity.

Well, if you think the consequences of being wrong is eternal suffering, I can't imagine what would be more important to you than not only being right, but having no doubt that you are right.

[checkymcfold 0]

cinci, after reading your last couple posts, i think maybe the best thing for you to do is to try to read as much as you can about as many religions as possible. although the books SB recommended are great, i'm sure, i think it might be a better idea for you to start with the original texts of various religions. considering your background, perhaps you should start from a non-christian tradition and go from there. are there comparative religion courses at a college near you? a lot of my former students took those kinds of courses because they were going through something similar to what you're going through now, and they'd be great ways for you to get some direct instruction with respect to the various ways of understanding religion around the world.