Tipping Dealers

[JFarrell20 1]

I agree. Frankly, if I win a small pot 10-15 bucks I'll tell the dealer "I'll get you next time" then when i win a bigger pot I'll probably give 1 or 2 bucks. But yeah, 1 dollar every time is too taxing.

[53o 0]

Also, in your example your saying a pro makes $365,000 a yr based on a $1000 a year

Actually my example states 1K aweek.. for an annual earning of about 50K. Still.. if you are having that much trouble keeping a roll as well as keeping your bills payed then, again, you need to re-evaluate your lifetyle choices. I know a lot of poker players that just 'scrape by' and you know what? They still tip and don't whine about it.

[rog 0]

The government and the casino expect dealers to make about half their pay through tips. They tax them and pay them accordingly. This is the economic system that table waiting and poker dealing are based on. The way the system works is that the employer pays a portion of the salary to the employee, but leaves a portion for you to pay directly. Presumably the goods (ie the rake) are actually discounted from what they would have to be if the employees were fully paid by the employer. This is a powerful tool for feedback in a service industry because you as the customer can in effect dock an employee's pay if you dont like the service, or give them a raise if you do. You do not have to like the system, but at least understand your place in it. The only reason part of the salary is left for you to pay is so you can make a statement about the service you are receiving. What statement are you making?. You are either refusing to pay the people who provide you the service (yes it is your job to pay them. The rake only does half the job), or you are exploiting your fellow players by letting them cover some of your costs. You are the cheapskate friend at the "all on one bill" restaurant table who leaves nothing because his friends are decent tippers and his contribution would not be missed.If everyone did what you do, the system would have to change, and the rake would simply go up. Enjoy sponging off your colleagues. I hope the reputation you build serves you well.Rog

[elkang 0]

if you do not tip you are a drain on the system and I am subsidizing you with my tips to the dealers. so, here's a "you cheap bastard!" from me. you can do what you want and I can certainly understand the economic reasons for not tipping.it certainly is a lot easier for me - a player who plays about 10-20 hrs a week - to tip than for a pro who plays all the time. I know the dealers in my local rooms and they know me. I'm glad to be part of the system.I would like to hear more from the pros though, because again, it is easier for me to tip than someone who does it for a living. but, whenever I play with pros, I see them tip. Or actually, I notice everyone who doesn't tip.

[jayboogie 0]

Also, in your example your saying a pro makes $365,000 a yr based on a $1000 a year

Actually my example states 1K aweek.. for an annual earning of about 50K. Still.. if you are having that much trouble keeping a roll as well as keeping your bills payed then, again, you need to re-evaluate your lifetyle choices. I know a lot of poker players that just 'scrape by' and you know what? They still tip and don't whine about it.

sorry my mistake, misread your post, but still my point is that dealers should treat you the same whether you tip them or not, it's their job to deal cards, not get tips. Tips are how they are rewarded for doing a good job. Like I said before, if a dealer is doing a good job, fast, efficient, and fun to have deal cards, I have no problem tipping them, but not when they do a terrible job. Very often, you'll see dealers glare at a player who only tips a buck after winning a big pot. I just don't like this at all, sure he may have taken down a bit pot, but they don't take into consideration that the player could have just broken back even after winning that pot and had been losing all night or could still be stuck a large amount.

[AnnChristiansen 0]

Xsaint wrote: "I friend once told me when we were both in college that he didn't date because it wasn't "cost effective". For some reason this post brought back that memory, lol. "I'm sure you've heard the famous saying: "In the poker game of life, women are the rake." :-)

[adamkadmon 0]

Being an unorthadox Catholic jew I hate tipping, but if I do well I tip. One nice reason for tipping is so you'll get your room comped or the floor man will see you and say hello or what have you. If you play at the commerce in california and decide you are not going to grease Jack's (floorman) palm your only hurting yourself. For example, if the dealer needs the floorman for a decision and it's a decision between a ruling for el tight wad and me, the guy throwing jack five dollar chips everyday who do you think will prevail most of the time. I know this isn't neccessarily right but this is the norm I have found most of the time. I realize when you start computing BB per hour and compounding intrest over a lifetime this tipping can get expensive but then again two cups of starbucks a day will run ya about 2500.00 a year, lots of mulla, but I dont stop drinking starbucks, It just helps me to play better and win more. If the dealer does an adequate job and doesn't have diarea of the mouth, why not tip the guy a buck or two for a 500 hundred dollar pot or 3% or whatever

[Red 0]

Face it, this trend is not going away. Employers have been successfully passing the costs of compensating their employees to their customers through the gradual implementation of this tipping system for years now. Restaurants were the originators, as it became expected that one would tip even a bad waiter something. This then was extended to putting the tip jar next to the cash register at places where you get your food at the counter. ( Have you ever considered why fast food restaurants will not allow the tip jar? Unprofessional, possibly annoying to the customer?) This despite the fact that no one is bringing you anything from more than a few feet away in most cases. I guess you are tipping them for taking your order... or possibly not doing something unseemly to your food. As one poster pointed out there is a now often a tip jar, cup or in some greedy cases a large bowl on the counter of almost every retail food service type establishment (coffee shops are the worst, tip a dollar on a 2 dollar cup of joe?) willing to risk a small degree of anger from a minority of customers. I think most in this small group are too embarassed to complain about something they are unwilling to deposit into, yet still feel an implied obligation which annoys them. Where does this stop? I don't really know to be honest, but I don't think it will any time soon. I actually see both sides of this clearly. I tip people who deserve to be tipped, IMHO, of course. Dealers who do a good job deserve tips. Just like a good waiter or the girl who cuts my hair. If they fcuk up I may make an adjustment, but if I know they are trying I'm not looking to punish anyone. If however they are incompetent or unpleasant I will not reward them for it either. Have a great 2005, RedP.S. Why doesn't management just raise prices to the level they must and charge the customer sufficiently to cover whatever expenses they claim? It would be a lot more upfront in my eyes and would also cut down on the number of times this topic is broached in online forums like this one :wink: ! Perhaps tipping is just a side affect of capitalism.

[rog 0]

Face it, this trend is not going away.  Employers have been successfully passing the costs of compensating their employees to their customers through the gradual implementation of this tipping system for years now.  

The tipping system is not passing the cost of compensating the employees on to you. The cost of compensating the employees has ALWAYS been passed on to you. They've changed the system a bit so it's done through tips rather than through markup. So what? You're also paying for the heat, the lights, the insurance...everything. That's business.

[Red 0]

rog wrote: "The tipping system is not passing the cost of compensating the employees on to you."and then: "...it's done through tips rather than through markup."What? That was a pretty short paragraph to have such a blatant contradiction. While I appreciate your attempt at giving a "business" lesson I'm afraid I've missed your point entirely. Try again?Red

[53o 0]

Heh.. What he's saying is that rather than make your Ice Cream 8 dollars a scoop, they leave it at 3 and put a tip jar on the counter, hoping you'll do the 'right thing'.While I fully endorse tipping, seeing tip jars everywhere kind of annoys me too. All in all.. People know who and when to tip. You tip Valets, Strippers, Dealers, etc... You don't tip the Ice Cream girl.. Unless you want her phone number..

[Guest]

You know what really pisses me off? All those darn "tip" jars with a child cancer patient picture on them. You WANT MY CHANGE AFTER I BY A SMOKE? I'm gonna need the money incase I get lung cancer screw you!

[Vegas King 0]

You tippers are all like sheep. Whatever "society" says is the norm, lets all follow. If you want to tip the dealers, barber, pizza man, strippers, ice cream girl, valet, floorman, or anyone else doing a job that is your choice, but to say it is a must is hilarious. Should we tip the Airine pilots, how about the police that roam the streets, what about the mailman, of course everyone in customer service should get a tip, what about the Fry cook who made your meal, Maybe I should add a couple of bucks to my checks when paying the phone, gas, and electric bills to make sure everyone is covered. Don't forget the cable man. Uncle Sam likes to take a nice rake out of every check, maybe we should add a column on there for a tip to all the government workers who do such a fine job.Next time you visit your favorite fast food place and see a tip jar make sure you put in at least a $20 so you can cover a buck each for everyone working that shift. Then again maybe $40 as the shift before probably did the prep work on the food you will eat. Just call me cheap as I add up all the extra $$$$ I save by making my own decisions with my money

[rog 0]

rog wrote:  "The tipping system is not passing the cost of                          compensating the employees on to you."and then:  "...it's done through tips rather than through markup."What?  That was a pretty short paragraph to have such a blatant contradiction.  While I appreciate your attempt at giving a "business" lesson I'm afraid I've missed your point entirely.  Try again?Red

You have missed my point entirely...maybe I should have been more clear. What I should have said is that bringing in the tipping system is not passing the cost on to you. You as customer have always been responsible for compensating employees. This is not something new that came in with the tipping system. With tipping you do so directly, and without tipping you do so indirectly, but make no mistake, it has always been your money going into their pockets. With tipping you get to adjust the amount they get paid to react to poor or excellent service. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

[53o 0]

You tippers are all like sheep.  Whatever "society" says is the norm, lets all follow.  

Hahahaha!!! Yes, yes. How avant gard of you not to tip. You rebel. The world needs more completely self absorbed, greedy sociopaths like yourself. You are a terrible human being. Congradulations! :roll:

[Red 0]

Rog: Thanks for the clarification. After reading it and your prior post again I have a better of understanding of where you were going there. Not saying I agree, but you make some valid points.I was contemplataing "society" earlier today and whether or not what society dictates is right or good. I don't think it necessarily is, though that is definately a discussion for another time :-) .Later, Red

[mba_pokerpro 0]

I really hope you all that don't want to tip... stay home and play on the internet...For what its worth... you pros... and I consider myself one... should expect to incur certain expenses... during the course of doing your job... tipping is one.I believe that a good dealer should be tipped and a bad dealer should not... in Vegas and most places that is what happens...However, in my home casino... the dealers all split tokes... so the bad get to survive on the backs of the good dealers... which is truely unfortunate... however, I still tip the good dealers... b/c they are doing their job... and I am doing my job as a player and tipping good dealers...It is just a necessary expense... w/o it there would be no game at all and then how would we make our money??? The non tippers can't see the forest from the trees... Choosing not to tip b/c of the rake and other said reasons is severally short sighted to me... What you will have left if you continue to hold this view are a bunch of shitty dealers who deal slow and bad... and as a result your +EV is decreased over the course of a year... HMMMM.... I wonder if anybody ever thought about what the world of poker would be like if all we had were shitty dealers... ones who couldn't call winning hands in a Omaha 8 game... couldn't split pots... couldn't control the action... we would have chaos and now we would only play about 20 hands an hour b/c the floor would be called over all the time... Now as a result of playing only 20 hands an hour instead of the customary 30 your EV would be greatly reduced over the course of a year... Your EV would decline by 33%... then you would have to find another job... and that would REALLY SUCK!!!!!

[Red 0]

If tipping the dealers is a cost of doing business as mba_pokerpro suggests, shouldn't tips be tax deductible as a business expense similar to a lunch meeting or the cost of postage? What about the rake?Red

[KidKanuck 0]

Will in New Haven makes an excellent point.

there you go making an excellent point again Will...enough already. take careKK

[johngbrown66 0]

You dont report that income since you dont recieve it.

[KidKanuck 0]

I'm a newbie to live casino games...what is the norm for tipping a dealer?

[Smasharoo 0]

if you do not tip you are a drain on the system and I am subsidizing you with my tips to the dealers. so, here's a "you cheap bastard!" from me. you can do what you want and I can certainly understand the economic reasons for not tipping. When casinos stop gouging players on MTT entry fees, rake and time charges, I'll cry a big tear for all the dealers missing out on the occasional tip.Tipping is a way for the casino to maximize profit, make no mistake. It allows them to pay dealrs less.When a bad dealer tosses me a chip I'll worry about compensating someone who can turn cards over effectively.I'm not trying to be the bad guy her, but it makes more sense to me to tip the person that brings me a drink I don't pay for than the person who deals me cards I play a seat time charge for.

[koolromeo 0]

if a dealer is averaging $20-$30 an hour in tips and salary, then we should deal instead of playing. i know it wouldn't be as satisfying, but its a lock to clear at least $20 and hour with no risk. i'd be willing to bet that over 80 % of the poster on here don't come close to clearing $20 an hour playing. i'd also be wil to to bet that most people on her don't come close to $20 an hour at their job too. so, if we're going to be at the table anyway, why don't we just deal? your thoughts?

[Smasharoo 0]

if a dealer is averaging $20-$30 an hour in tips and salary, then we should deal instead of playing. i know it wouldn't be as satisfying, but its a lock to clear at least $20 and hour with no risk. i'd be willing to bet that over 80 % of the poster on here don't come close to clearing $20 an hour playing. i'd also be wil to to bet that most people on her don't come close to $20 an hour at their job too. so, if we're going to be at the table anyway, why don't we just deal? your thoughts?Seems like a pretty crappy job, to be honest.The things I've seen dealers have to put up with is mind boggling. Drink thrown at them, cards thrown at them, punches thrown at them.Now that I think about it, they should proably wear baseball catcher's gear.The one time I'll tip big is if someone else is an ******* to a dealer.

[mba_pokerpro 0]

If tipping the dealers is a cost of doing business as mba_pokerpro suggests, shouldn't tips be tax deductible as a business expense similar to a lunch meeting or the cost of postage?  What about the rake?Red

Red, Let me draw it out for you... Let's say you own your own business... a poker playing business...Your business particpates in the local 15/30 trade or field... your business creates about 66,000 per year in revenue...From that you pay your bills and expenses... tipping... of say 6000What you have left over is your income... or net income before taxes, amortization, and depreciation...Now what all you non tippers fail to realize... is that the casinos have an oppurtunity cost of spreading games in a poker room... the rake and tipping is a small charge for us to incur for the privilage of playing in their room...B/C trust me they could certainly find something better to do with the square footage... like put slot machines in there... I DON'T THINK ANY OF US ARE TALENTED ENOUGH TO MAKE A LIVING PLAYING SLOTS... SO STOP BEING CHEAP AND START TIPPING...Otherwise there may be no game to play in... unless you want to go back to playing in the backrooms and underground again....I hope you all enjoy the business lesson for the week!!