Evastian 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Do you think this is going to happen anymore? I know for a fact that the pros do consistently make appearances at plenty of major events, but given the insane amount of people who want to go to the Main Event these days, over many other equally good 10k tourneys, are the pros just too outnumbered?I would love to see the likes of Daniel, Scotty, Lindgren etc beating these 5k+ player fields, but is the expectation for multiple pros to make it way deep a little bit too high these days? Is it really just a crapshoot of online qualifiers who have no idea what to do?I'm interested in your thoughts too Daniel, if you get a chance.Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
Doug 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Do you think this is going to happen anymore? I know for a fact that the pros do consistently make appearances at plenty of major events, but given the insane amount of people who want to go to the Main Event these days, over many other equally good 10k tourneys, are the pros just too outnumbered?I would love to see the likes of Daniel, Scotty, Lindgren etc beating these 5k+ player fields, but is the expectation for multiple pros to make it way deep a little bit too high these days? Is it really just a crapshoot of online qualifiers who have no idea what to do?I'm interested in your thoughts too Daniel, if you get a chance.CheersWhat expectation? I think it's a bit of a stupid question really. Scotty Nguyen got deep in 2007 and Alan cunningham got deep in 2006 so yes it's certainly possible. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 do people honestly care if a "pro" wins the ME or not?- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Buckeye Hughes 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 What expectation? I think it's a bit of a stupid question really. Scotty Nguyen got deep in 2007 and Alan cunningham got deep in 2006 so yes it's certainly possible.Pot meet kettledo people honestly care if a "pro" wins the ME or not?- JordanQFT/thread Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 It isn't that stupid of a thread.What you have to do is expand your definition of what a pro is from being just somebody you have seen on TV. Many of those players who you think of as pros may not actually play that well or actually win money at poker. Tuan Lam who finished second last year is a pro who you wouldn't have known because he hadn't been on TV before for example but he'd made a lot of money playing online and was a winning player at 200/400 limit for example. Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 do people honestly care if a "pro" wins the ME or not?- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Al I know is I pray and fast for Phil Hellmuth to win this again every year.Every year Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 It isn't that stupid of a thread.What you have to do is expand your definition of what a pro is from being just somebody you have seen on TV. Many of those players who you think of as pros may not actually play that well or actually win money at poker. Tuan Lam who finished second last year is a pro who you wouldn't have known because he hadn't been on TV before for example but he'd made a lot of money playing online and was a winning player at 200/400 limit for example.Dangit, Bob beat me to the punch. Definition of "Pro" is key... Moneymaker/Yang = honest to god Amateur at that time. Rest of the crowd, not so much.Here's the real question: How much recognition/glitz n' glamour are the cornucopia of $10k events now attached to the world series going to get? Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 As great as it would be to see an outstanding pro player win the ME, it's better for poker if amateurs keep winning it. As long as the fish think they have a chance, they'll keep playing. Link to post Share on other sites
AcesOnFire 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 do people honestly care if a "pro" wins the ME or not?- JordanNo, and update your blog. Link to post Share on other sites
Poker Addict 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I would much rather see someone like, well, me win the main event then some recognizable pro. Link to post Share on other sites
Evastian 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Well fair enough, I guess I am talking about TV "poker celebrities", although the genuinely, consistently skilled ones. We're talking Negreanu, Hellmuth, Ivey, Harman, Hansen, etc.For example, I would love to see, say Negreanu and Lindgren heads-up at the final table of the WSOP ME. They both went deep into the recent Five Diamond championship, but the Main Event has four, five, six times the field. Despite the obvious skill of both players, is the size of the field genuinely going to reduce the effectiveness of that skill in the long run? Are any well-known professionals that make it that far just lucky enough to withstand the barrage of amateurs? Link to post Share on other sites
SlapStick 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Well fair enough, I guess I am talking about TV "poker celebrities", although the genuinely, consistently skilled ones. We're talking Negreanu, Hellmuth, Ivey, Harman, Hansen, etc.For example, I would love to see, say Negreanu and Lindgren heads-up at the final table of the WSOP ME. They both went deep into the recent Five Diamond championship, but the Main Event has four, five, six times the field. Despite the obvious skill of both players, is the size of the field genuinely going to reduce the effectiveness of that skill in the long run? Are any well-known professionals that make it that far just lucky enough to withstand the barrage of amateurs?To win it, including skill, you need to suck out on like at least 20 or 30 people, run like god for 2 days and a bit more luck. The guys that won it recently had the luck, doesnt mean the pros cant go on a lucky streak and get there either Link to post Share on other sites
herokid7 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The good thing about "name" pros making it to the final table in the ME is that is gives the audience a rooting interest. I'm more likely to watch a tournament featuring a bunch of players I know, rather than a bunch of guys I've never heard of. Link to post Share on other sites
ReraiseAllIn 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I would rather the unknowns and amateurs win, it feeds the Moneymaker "anybody can win at poker" perception. Link to post Share on other sites
dereeekho 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 what category does lee watkinson fall under then? he has made two wpt final table. Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 what category does lee watkinson fall under then? he has made two wpt final table.He falls into the "I'm shipping it with A7 and having my wife invoke the religious card even more annoyingly than the Yang camp" category.(also, don't forget his mixed game bracelet and multiple wsop non-ME FTs) Link to post Share on other sites
dt1313 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I totally agree that "pro" needs more of a definition...I think this past year showed how many "pros" & "name pros" can go deep...Of course it will still involve some type of luck, but I feel a pro will triumph one day... He falls into the "I'm shipping it with A7 and having my wife invoke the religious card even more annoyingly than the Yang camp" category.(also, don't forget his mixed game bracelet and multiple wsop non-ME FTs)Otherwise known as the "WTF are you thinking shipping it here" category...Dan Link to post Share on other sites
Evastian 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Well, here's an interesting thought.I've watched Daniel's small ball videos, and used the approach several times with success. Now, I constantly hear that while anyone can win in the short term, but overall those with better skills will get the better results. Considering the Main Event is a looooooong tournament, wouldn't that give the true professionals a chance to really spread their wings and use a consistent play approach that helps them survive very deep, while kamikaze players may get chipped up big in the early rounds, but inevitably lose the coin flip? Link to post Share on other sites
mase_gotsem 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Al I know is I pray and fast for Phil Hellmuth to win this again every year.Every yearqfmft Well, here's an interesting thought.I've watched Daniel's small ball videos, and used the approach several times with success. Now, I constantly hear that while anyone can win in the short term, but overall those with better skills will get the better results. Considering the Main Event is a looooooong tournament, wouldn't that give the true professionals a chance to really spread their wings and use a consistent play approach that helps them survive very deep, while kamikaze players may get chipped up big in the early rounds, but inevitably lose the coin flip?umm i honeslty dont think the structur for the wsop me is too good ?? i might be off on this but im pretty sure its crap shooty Link to post Share on other sites
JimboJim 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The Poker Superstars Invitational is the real World Championship. Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The Poker Superstars Invitational is the real World Championship.I'm gonna miss that show. It was incredibly fun to watch name pros play a SNG style w/ point system.And last season's final regular season match, where Gus Hansen exploited the table situation to win like 17 straight hands was hilarious to watch and an absolute poker clinic. Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 this thread..[ ] delivers[x] makes me sad Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Raymer was a pro wasn't he?I heard he played decent stakes mixed games pretty well at the time.Anyway, of course a professional can win it, anyone can win remember. Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Raymer was a pro wasn't he?I heard he played decent stakes mixed games pretty well at the time.Anyway, of course a professional can win it, anyone can win remember.As far as poker being his only source of income, no.But he had been playing mid limit holdem and smaller tourneys at Foxwoods prior to the ME win, and that was not his first ME either.He said once he set aside some poker money, and if he lost it he was done, apperently he was almost poker broke, started to run goot then took the ME down. Link to post Share on other sites
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