American Players suck..

[jonnyhockey 0]

To be honest, the one game in which I see the biggest difference between American and European players isn't Texas, but OMAHA, Hold'Em.You ever played Omaha with a (good) European player?  Holy crap, they play the game a heck of a lot differently than I do, and I consider myself at least on the road to "solid."  Example:  I've been taught that AAxx is a VERY strong hand heads up, but not one you really want to play a big pot with unless:a) all the money is in before the flop     ORB) you make a safe-setNow, if I'm playing Pot-Limit Omaha and I've got AA in early position, I'm going to limp, hope to see a raise from late position, then try and get all the money in.  Why not?  You're a favorite against any hand but a better AA, right?  I think the best hand to take against AAxx (4-suited) is something like 9-T-J-Q  double suited, and then you're only a 4% dog.  But Europeans really think American Omaha players put WAY too much emphasis on big pocket pairs in Omaha, and most all would rather play the latter hand than the former, whereas good American Omaha players are trying to get all the money in with Aces.Also, the idea that the Daniel Negreanu, Howard Lederer, Johnny Chan, Phil Hellmuth, Phil Ivey (etc, etc) are somehow OVERRATED is absolutely ludicrous.  Who are the best European poker players?  Marcel Luske?  Come on.  Everyone will readily admit that there are probably more BAD American poker players, but that's just because there are MORE American poker players, period.  Nonesense.

Negreanu's Canadian, not American...

[CoreyBrown 0]

Negreanu's Canadian, not American...

oh?not even north?

[jonnyhockey 0]

Negreanu's Canadian, not American...

oh?not even north?

The article, and all posts above mention nothing about North American players, just American... but I was just joking around anyways. Afterall, as Homer Simpson once said, Canada is basically America Jr. anyways.

[CoreyBrown 0]

my reply was about this reply....as in a joke

Negreanu's Canadian, not American...

[JanOlavSjavik 0]

Even though I am myself a European, to me it is pretty obvious that:1. The best players in the world are, with a few possible exceptions, all Americans.2. There are A LOT more really good players in the US than all other countries combined.I have been playing a lot live poker both in Europe and US the last five years, and anyone who have done that would have to be pretty twisted in the head not to see the overwhelming American dominans. It would also be very strange it this was not the case, since there are so many more poker players in the US, for cultural reasons.The two plays mentioned, I found a little bit puzzling. But then I realized that in the Chan example, nothing was said about how many chips were left after the reraise. If there were some chips left, obviously Chan could have a strategy that would weigh up for his hand being dominated. Then I looked at the Howard Lederer example. I was pretty sure that Lederer would not have made that call if the facts were all correct. Then I saw the word "appears". A sum that "APPEARS to be"?? This choice of words strongly suggests that Brindley KNEW he was taking a chance on estimating how big the raise was. Which now is being confirmed by the story on the Lederer web site. So Brindley had a thousand hands on ESPN to pick from, and he only came up with these two - and both of them was misrepresented? Way to go!JOS(European NL champion 2001 London)

[TheIceman05 0]

Haha, I know that Daniel Negreanu is Canadian.... but I believe this was a "People that traditionally play poker in Europe most of the time" vs "People that traditionally play poker in the US most of the time" type of comparison. When Mr. Negreanu goes to Europe, you think they don't think of him as "American?" Even if they know (or "know") he's Canadian, they're probably subconciously thinking "Hollywood." It's like if you mistakenly called an Irish guy an Englishman.... I'm most Americans would just say, "Yeah, well, same difference. Whatever."Me = Insensitive ArseIce

[samurai_tony 0]

For starters roy brindley is actually a very good poker player having made a lot of final tables in good sized events so he does know what he is talking about. I don't entirely agree wit his analysis of why he thinks americans suck at poker, clearly they don't but i was a little perplexed by some of the calls to reraises that were made, many of the calls seemed to be bordering on just plain bad.Roy's point ( i think ) is that maybe american poker players are overrated more than they suck, the sheer volume of americans at the wsop events and the nature of poker means that they are far more likely to dominate at the events although i think this will come down to a question of naturalisation... a lot of the big winners are not americans but recent immigrants or people who are assumed to be american ( negreanu and the like ), men the master, scotty ngyuen, john juhanda, gus hansen are just the names that spring to mind that are in fact not american but are assumed to be. I think if taking a ratio for number of entrants compared to position non americans do much better at wpt's / wsop's. While the top ranks i think will almost always be americans for the simple reason the biggest game is held in vegas and its not the sort of thing you can just sit down in and do well at, it has to be done over time and building up to that sort of limit. Basically i have absolutly no idea why roy bothered to post something that didnt really achieve anything except piss some people off but i dont think what he said was entirely retarded.

[HarryDemetriou 0]

I don't really want to get involved in this but have to offer the odd comment.Whilst Roy Brindley is a Ladbrokes sponsored player who does a wonderful job of writing articles for The Ladbroke website and promoting their name he has been known to put his foot in it on more than one occaission when making commentaries on televised poker shows by not getting all his facts right. Sensationalism, however, is part and parcel of making commentary and written articles interesting.This year (althogh I have hardly played against him in recent times) he has improved tremendously as a player but probably not by enough to be so judgemental of individual players that have proven track records particularly when based on such flimsy information as solitary hands viewed in isolation and especially when he has not gotten all his facts concerning the hands correct.Ladbrokes actively prevent Americans from playing on their poker website for legal reasons but this may indirectly have some bearing on the article.From a personal point of view though I would have to say that Europe ahs some outstandingly good players who are the equal of those to be found in the Americas but numerically they are less in numbers as poker is not as well supported in Europe as it is in North America.In addition I find it amazing that so many people like to concentrate on so many negative things when there is so much good to write and say about poker.eg it amazes me how you get posts asking for who the worst / most overated player in the world is etc etc when it is much more useful to talk about and discuss who are the best players and why.Just ny 0.0001 cents worth

[Fluffyfrog 0]

Read on a scandinavian forum (some guy referred to information from Empires affiliate-dept) that finnish and swedish players are net winners, norwegians are marginal losers. The worst players are from the US. They've got a lot of players who win a lot, but they've got a whole lot more bad players (online).

[vegasholdem 0]

the author obviously has "penis envy" :shock:

[ahosang 0]

Poker players from ALL countries suck until they take time to learn the subtle parts of the game. There are a LOT of Americans playing so yes, a lot of American players suck. There are not so many Brits or Scandies, so not so many Brits or Scandies suck. There are probably not many Greenlanders, so probably not so many Greenlanders suck. It's just stats Roy! The funny thing is that Ladbrokes lists one of the 10 main benefits of playing on their site as :"4. No American PlayersThere are thousands of professional players in the US and they make US Poker sites hard places to win money. Ladbrokes is popular, paradoxically, because it is the only site in the world that does not take US players for legal reasons. Ladbrokes is commonly regarded as the best place to play Poker as a novice player."By the way people, beware of any Greeks online. They are generally dangerous in the Omaha games. Scandies are mad, either very good or very bad, but tend to bet strong. Must be the general wealth there.

[Duff_Man 0]

Oh yeah well European players Swall......On second thought nevermind

[scweeber 0]

Negreanu's Canadian, not American...

oh?not even north?

since Canada is basically "America Junior," Daniel is technically an american "Canada! Why would you want to leave America to go to America Junior?" - Homer J. Simpson

[theben 0]

dont listen to this article. both of those players are truly top notch. howard lederer actually wrote an explanation about the A9 from 2003. he is ony of the most intelligent players in the game today, and trust me- he knew he was calling off money as a dog.his explanation was that he was sending a message to the table: dont run me over. the call didnt significantly kill his stack or anything. he wanted to let the table know that if hes in, hes not going to sit by and let opponents come over the top with garbage like AQ or some mid pair.when dan harrington won the world series in the mid 90's, he called a preflop all in from the BB with a J2. and the bet was a big one (i think about 10% of his stack). dan is know to be one of the tightest players on the world. he knew with almost certainty his hand wasnt going to be the best. he too was sending a message to the table. dont run me over, dont steal my stuff.these real top notch players werent gamlin' to get chips. they weren't making some pot commited call. it was sending a strategic message to the opponents at the table.

[Balloon guy 158]

Here is an article written by ladbrokes ("big bookmaker in Europe)own pokerpro, Roy "the boy" Brindley. Guess not all of u americans agree on it :-) , so I would just like to hear what u guys think of it.. What would the arguments from the american point of view be if u disagree?Here it is:"So, seeking an antidote to boredom without fulfilling my other addiction of punting on American horseracing, I flick through the scores of satellite stations, whose programmes contrast from Andy Pandy to Adult XXX, only to stumble across ESPN’s presentation of the 2003 WSOP. Here, in the opening hand of day threes play, a so-called big-name, Howard Leaderer, raises in an early position with A9 but he is quickly re-raised all-in for a sum that appears to be six times his initial raise. Now, considering this is not a $5 multi-re-buy event on the net, quite the opposite – three days in to the biggest tournament in the world – what do you do with your A9? Should Lederer’s opponent hold an AT, AJ, AQ or AK he is in very bad shape (an 11/4 shot). Similarly, holding any pair over 9’s and he is a 5/2 underdog. The hands he can be beating are A8, A7, A6 and so on, along with KQ, KJ and the like. While a pair of 8’s or lower mean he is marginal underdog. But, let’s be practical shall we, any kind of player – any kind of player that gets to day three of the World Series – is not going to come over the top of an early position raiser with a tiny pair, an Ace with a poor kicker, or King high. So, top-man Lederer duly makes a ludicrous call, expecting to see God only knows what, and then puts on his aggrieved face when an AQ suited is flipped over! Next up is Jonnie Chan, he raises with A3, again in an early position, and is soon re-raised. Now surely he is going to dump this handful of garbage, after all if his opponent is on an Ace Chan must be ‘out-kicked’ or, if his taking on a pair, he can only win if finding an Ace on the board, something which will result in his rival giving him no more money. In either scenario he cannot make a move on the flop unless on an outrageous bluff most probably without ‘outs.’ OK, I do declare Chan has won the World Series and more than you, I and most of ladbrokespoker.com players will ever do but how, considering plays like this, is the big mystery This leads me to one of the most frequently asked questions – how good are the American players? Well, residents in the land of the free and home of depraved will not hesitate in declaring our star spangled friends are simply the best poker players in the world. Such a blinkered viewpoint is not supported by the figures though, with World Series of Poker final tables consistently featuring a strong European flavour despite our representation barely registering on the entries/field size scale. So, if the hash of sheer numbers is not complimentary what about those players placed at the very highest echelon? Strangely, World Champions, WPT and World Series Bracelet winners arrived at Dublin’s WPC this summer in droves banging the American dream team drum but the result was nil seats at the final table. Repeat the dose for the Paris leg of the WPT, an Internet qualifier apart, and what began as a simple enquiry appears to have exposed the ridicule of a popular myth. Please don’t take this as outright condemnation, I’m just questioning and equating the form of even those which have won up to nine World Series Bracelets. After all, if you had played up to thirty events at each World Series since the early 80’s with field sizes often as small as twenty, would you not expect to match that score? "

This has been bugging me for a while.I think the author is wrong.

[strategy 4]

why do we move this garbage to OT?I'd prefer a chrozzo thread to this.

[jmkiser 0]

This has been bugging me for a while.I think the author is wrong.

LOLBG!!2004?!?!?!lol, you didn't even sign up to the site until 5 months after the postI think I was a month or so after you.

[Doug 0]

I think the statement "American Players suck" is ridiculous. Im english and im ashamed this man has written this, I had little respect for him before and less now.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I think the statement "American Players suck" is ridiculous. Im english and im ashamed this man has written this, I had little respect for him before and less now.

He has three posts on this forum. This was written on December 27th, 2004. At what time and over what amount of posts did you decide to give him "little respect before"?

[JoeyJoJo 18]

shut up doug

fyp

[loogie 115]

He has three posts on this forum. This was written on December 27th, 2004. At what time and over what amount of posts did you decide to give him "little respect before"?

Heeeeelarious. I have decided to give Doug 40% less respect than before after reading this post.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

I think you guys missed this part:

Here is an article written by ladbrokes ("big bookmaker in Europe)own pokerpro, Roy "the boy" Brindley.

[Actuary 3]

He has three posts on this forum. This was written on December 27th, 2004. At what time and over what amount of posts did you decide to give him "little respect before"?

the author of the piece <> OP