Improving Your People Skills

[Randy Reed 0]

Step 1 to improving your social skills is to never do this again or at least never admit it in public.

I didn't read any of this it's way to long and I have great people skills but as usual, Spades me me giggle.

[checkymcfold 0]

hand over the mouth is generaly a bluff isn't it?

there are different sorts of hand-to-mouth moves. in my experience, most of them are of the sort that are covering a smile, and those are hiding a monster hand (one guy last night did that about 30 times, and another guy about 10, for instance). the type of move that is more open-palmed, covering more of the face is more often a bluff. your results may vary, of course. the big thing with tells is that they're generally so people-specific that you have to really associate a pattern of action with hands for one player only, rather than a one-size-fits-all type deal. i tried to generalize a bit in my post before, but i can easily remember counterexamples for each tell i listed. you can't really speak in universals when it comes to these sorts of things.

[checkymcfold 0]

I think Teddy is a perfect example of the large majority of young-ish poker players that I have met over the past few years, approx. between the ages of 17 and 25-ish. For the most part, many have very few people/social skills.

oooooh, do me do me!

[mtdesmoines 3]

I dont want to be obnoxious, but I think my poker game is at a level where it can't get much higher unless I learn how to manipulate people better. It's not always just about the cards. I'm tired of praying that I run good and win some races. There has to be more to the game than just running good. There has to be more to the game than just sitting and putting people on ranges based on math.

You will be better than most people at this game someday.

[checkymcfold 0]

oh, and one more little thing:playing more stud games will improve your reading ability in all games. significantly.

[Balloon guy 158]

I didn't read any of this it's way to long and I have great people skills but as usual, Spades me me giggle.

Step 1 to improving your social skills is to never do this again or at least never admit it in public. copyright Spademan 2007 all rights reserved

[Balloon guy 158]

You will be better than most people at this game someday.

Until that day: DIE Teddy DIEI do not know why this is funny but lots of people tell teddy to die so I took a shot hoping I hit a bullseye

[Potsie P 0]

As usual I agree with nutz. That is, except the part about live play being "boring." I'm, by nature, a talkative, pretty outgoing person with just enough insult-spewing buddies to know the art of the quick retort, so I love playing live to both chat up the table AND quietly take notes on other players. As a poker player who doesn't play for income but loves to study the game as if I did, this combo of being "fun" at the table + being perceptive/deceptive for profit, to me, is the real allure of poker. I know I have to work on what I'm giving away at the table, but I concentrate on it every session and am learning slowly but surely.Quick story: I was playing a pretty big tourney live last month and was playing TAG. The chipleader, who was playing wild but had apparently blown a leprechaun that morning, told me as I raked in a pot that he SAW I was strong and that's why he folded preflop (the fold being a true rarity for him). I just nodded but immediately began playing back in my head what I might have done to give off a tell. I realized I had folded my hands under my chin before raising with my QQ--something I hadn't done regularly.So, one orbit later, I see the guy looking my way (I was two seats to his left). I have 79o, but I decide to eff with this guy, so I fold my hands under my chin after glancing at my cards. When action gets to the CL, he limps in behind another limper. I know I'm not playing this hand, so I dump it. Two more players limp and they see a flop of K-8-x. Check to him, and CL overbets the pot...like 1/2 his stack. Everyone folds to the BB who reraises all in (he was 2nd in chips at the table). CL calls and flips AA...only to see he's been outflopped with the BB's K-8 for two pair. Turn and river are bricks and the CL is crippled. When he goes out four hands later, I smile, knowing (or at least being pretty damn sure) that I was the reason he made the amateur's mistake of slowplaying AA, because he thought he had a "tell" that I was going to push the action for him with a strong hand.Oh, and I know why he shared that crucial info with me in the first place. His ego absolutely needed it. It wasn't enough that his stacks told everyone he could play--he needed his mouth to tell it, too. Obviously, don't be that guy.In general, any time you try to improve yourself in any way, you're only going to benefit. So working on your people skills is a good task. Just remember, poker players in general are probably the worst lot for trying to learn this from, so going to school or working with other professionals or spending time with people who have other interests is going to help you way more than putting more time into live play. Just my (ok, at this point, a dollar and) .02. Good luck.

[ErikRyland1 0]

sweet... talk to much on every table ive ever played at.

[nutzbuster 7]

oooooh, do me do me!

Fly out to Foxwoods you Dik!

[onlyme386 0]

sweet... talk to much on every table ive ever played at.

never would have guessed...Great thread, keep the thoughts coming. I'm starting to make this transition to live play more and threads like this are great.

[MyPlayIsRAB 0]

never would have guessed...Great thread, keep the thoughts coming. I'm starting to make this transition to live play more and threads like this are great.

me, you, $1k hu live?

[whatgreatis 0]

There has to be more to the game than just sitting and putting people on ranges based on math.

Heres a good example of how live/online differs. I've been playing pretty much only live my entire poker career (3 years) and I gauge peoples range based on physical tells/their mindset (on tilt or something)/player tendencies. I don't think I even know how to put someone on a range of hands based on math. Blah. I need to work on that side of my game sooo bad.

[Sheiky 0]

I dont want to be obnoxious, but I think my poker game is at a level where it can't get much higher unless I learn how to manipulate people better. It's not always just about the cards. I'm tired of praying that I run good and win some races. There has to be more to the game than just running good. There has to be more to the game than just sitting and putting people on ranges based on math.

Well then i guess i relate to that as i also have the same kind of problem(though as of yet it's not a poker problem).My advice is to not think of 'reading/manipulating' people as something that requires some great depth of ability or skill that some people are just innately good at (though i believe this is true of some people). I don't think there's any hidden secret to what you're aiming for, like all things in life it's just a matter of practicing and improving.Try and imagine yourself as the person you're in a hand with, what would you be holding if you just made that bet? Are you drunk and gambling? Are you a timid 20 year old new to a casino?There was a DN article in his articles section where he said that some people mistake his ability for reading people as being some kind of magical innate people skill when acctualy most of his reads on people are him putting X and Y together and coming up with the right answer. Informations X and Y was avalible for everyone at the table, but it was Daniel who took the time to think about what they meant.EDIT: And don't be an idiot by playing 5/10.

[jethrodull 0]

Actually I am the oldest in my family...of 3.

like I said "for what it's worth"...guess it wasn't worth much....I am enjoying the threadJ

[Royal_Tour 0]

there are different sorts of hand-to-mouth moves. in my experience, most of them are of the sort that are covering a smile, and those are hiding a monster hand (one guy last night did that about 30 times, and another guy about 10, for instance). the type of move that is more open-palmed, covering more of the face is more often a bluff. your results may vary, of course. the big thing with tells is that they're generally so people-specific that you have to really associate a pattern of action with hands for one player only, rather than a one-size-fits-all type deal. i tried to generalize a bit in my post before, but i can easily remember counterexamples for each tell i listed. you can't really speak in universals when it comes to these sorts of things.

about your leg shaking thing.usually a leg shaking, or constant drinking of water means they have a strong hand and are nervous.anyone who bluffs and doesnt want a call usually does the opposite of what they have been doing the entire time.also, shaking in the hands. If you see someone who is shakin in their hands when they bet, its a sign of a monster, not of a bluff.I've seen plenty of people call and say, well i see ur shaking, i'll call. and the other guy turns over a big hand

[steve7stud 0]

Ok. I read your entire post Teddy. I haven't read many of the other responses though. So if this has already been said, nothing wrong with saying it again.A poker player should really work with what they have. If you are naturally talkative, use that to your advantage. If you're naturally quiet, use that to your advantage. Don't try and force either one. Just do what comes naturally to you. The reason that I keep using the word natural is because in the long run, it will help you tremendously. Your strengths will be amplified when you simply accept who you are and go with it. Now we get to the more important part. When you are a bit older, live on your own, pay all of your own bills, have to support yourself, a family, etc............you will view poker differently. Yes it is a friendly game. But at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is who wins. I ALWAYS advocate playing with the utmost integrity. Having integrity and going for the kill are two different things completely. It is a poker players job to exploit every weakness possible he can find in other players. When the time is right, this will matter much more to you. Until then, keep working, have fun, and good luck.

[Zach6668 513]

CHECKY'S RANT

Also WAY too long.

[Tiltinagain 973]

Ok. I read your entire post Teddy. I haven't read many of the other responses though. So if this has already been said, nothing wrong with saying it again.A poker player should really work with what they have. If you are naturally talkative, use that to your advantage. If you're naturally quiet, use that to your advantage. Don't try and force either one. Just do what comes naturally to you. The reason that I keep using the word natural is because in the long run, it will help you tremendously. Your strengths will be amplified when you simply accept who you are and go with it. Now we get to the more important part. When you are a bit older, live on your own, pay all of your own bills, have to support yourself, a family, etc............you will view poker differently. Yes it is a friendly game. But at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is who wins. I ALWAYS advocate playing with the utmost integrity. Having integrity and going for the kill are two different things completely. It is a poker players job to exploit every weakness possible he can find in other players. When the time is right, this will matter much more to you. Until then, keep working, have fun, and good luck.

Very good post as always.While it's true that the worst thing you can do is play with "scared" money, maybe we ingrain it in our minds so much that the "money doesn't matter" that you/we forget that the money DOES matter when it comes time to leave the game and cash in your chips. Especially, as Steve alluded to above, when you are relying on that money to pay your rent/mortgage, car payment, eat etc... Playing for money to buy cool things, take cool trips and show off with your friends is a lot different that playing for money to exist. This is true of any job really. When you have the safety net of parents or whoever providing the roof over your head and 3 meals a day, you aren't going to take the job as seriously as you would when you rely on the JOB to provide those things.As Steve said, moving out and paying your own bills will go a long way towards giving you that killer instinct and realizing that when you're playing at the table someone is going home with the money and I'd much rather it be me than them.GL