Something Bad Is Gonna Happen To Ap

[SCYUKON 0]

Well, people are playing there tonight at 15/30 and 30/60....it was a ghosttown last night.I still haven't made up my mind about how to procede with Absolute. I'm tempted by a 100% reload offer that I got in the mail, but I'm still more than a little perturbed at how they handled this. I feel like they only admitted this because of extreme pressure from P5's, 2+2, and some whale players. If I report an issue, now I'm not at all confident that they will thoroughly investigate it. But rakeback plus deposit bonus = free money. Decisions, decisions

The rakeback and bonus are only there after you play so many raked pots though, aren't they? The key is if you think the site will crater or not before you get your hands in, or if something more sinister might happen......e.g. another "curious" company employee with x-ray vision.

[Amplifi3d 0]

Absolute Poker more like Absolute Scam

[mase_gotsem 0]

latest cliff notes hereand intersting article from msnbc news here

[Zach6668 513]

Yeah, I think the problem is that Zach vouched for the credibility over there and, well, you know how much credibility Zach has.

This is true.

[RDog 0]

LOL. I really don't know why. I am guessing people think it is doctored for whatever reason.

[hblask 1]

For whatever reason, it's annoying me that this piece of evidence is being ignored due to the FCP-ness of it. This e-mail flat out makes their current load of crap a near-impossibility.

The email is still unexplained, but there are explanations that could fit the 'rouge employee' theory.Scott and other bigshots opened accounts relatively early under the names Potripper, Steamroller, etc, played a little to see what their company created, then stopped playing. Having made millions from being bigshots in the company, they abandoned the accounts. The hacker realized this, and specifically used their accounts for the purpose of incriminating them. This would explain the email acknowledging steamroller.The IP address being a home cable modem is another issue, but one possibility is that Scott Tom set up a home server and gave a few people access to it, and that's where the hacker logged in to use acct 363. I'm not sure if this would fit the technical details that showed up, but it sort of makes sense based on how I understand IP addresses. This is all a bit iffy, and if Absolute's final statement doesn't fully explain this, it will be highly suspicious.

[ffishh 0]

Is Nat the N (and a bunch of numbers) guy? If so, he and Adanthar were two of the people really pushing the thread along at another forum. Read the threads linked earlier in this thread and you'll see their names all over it.

thanks

[Naismith 0]

The email is still unexplained, but there are explanations that could fit the 'rouge employee' theory.Scott and other bigshots opened accounts relatively early under the names Potripper, Steamroller, etc, played a little to see what their company created, then stopped playing. Having made millions from being bigshots in the company, they abandoned the accounts. The hacker realized this, and specifically used their accounts for the purpose of incriminating them. This would explain the email acknowledging steamroller.The IP address being a home cable modem is another issue, but one possibility is that Scott Tom set up a home server and gave a few people access to it, and that's where the hacker logged in to use acct 363. I'm not sure if this would fit the technical details that showed up, but it sort of makes sense based on how I understand IP addresses. This is all a bit iffy, and if Absolute's final statement doesn't fully explain this, it will be highly suspicious.

Wasn't the e-mail acknowledgement of the Steamroller account sent at the end of July?It just seems unlikely that they knew who the account belonged to at the end of July, investigated the account of their boss in September and it never came up that the boss wasn't the one using it for high stakes cheating and then they found out the rogue employee used it.I could buy it if they came out and said, "Look, we knew the account belonged to so-and-so and assumed he wouldn't cheat so we never really looked into it. Our bad."

[hblask 1]

Wasn't the e-mail acknowledgement of the Steamroller account sent at the end of July?It just seems unlikely that they knew who the account belonged to at the end of July, investigated the account of their boss in September and it never came up that the boss wasn't the one using it for high stakes cheating and then they found out the rogue employee used it.I could buy it if they came out and said, "Look, we knew the account belonged to so-and-so and assumed he wouldn't cheat so we never really looked into it. Our bad."

Oh yeah, right.... that would be pretty bad if they said "it can't be cheating because it's an insider". That's who *would* be able to cheat.

[Naismith 0]

Oh yeah, right.... that would be pretty bad if they said "it can't be cheating because it's an insider". That's who *would* be able to cheat.

At least it would explain how a "rogue employee" could use a big-wig's account, one that was then investigated, and get away with it. If they said they never really investigated it because it was Scott Tom's account and, really, why would he cheat?, it would just be gross negligence as opposed to out-and-out lying, stealing, cheating, covering up and all of the other movie-of-the-week stuff they're doing.

[RDog 0]

One of the more disturbing things since all this started. Unfortunately he is right.http://www.pocketfives.com/0BE7AAF6-0DE8-4...113DA8D83A.aspxI love them trying to use the "we ****ed up the online poker industry for everyone but by going after us, you are going to bring everyone else down with us" angle.

[finztotheleft 0]

One of the more disturbing things since all this started. Unfortunately he is right.http://www.pocketfives.com/0BE7AAF6-0DE8-4...113DA8D83A.aspxI love them trying to use the "we ****ed up the online poker industry for everyone but by going after us, you are going to bring everyone else down with us" angle.

Thanks for the link, RDog.Threats at this stage .....it would seem funny if it wasn't so sad.I don't feel like I'll be "happy" until there is full disclosure. I realize that may never happen, but that's what it would take for me to feel satisfied.

[flyingdonkey 0]

Here is the new thread they started at 2+2.http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...p;vc=1&nt=2Here is something from AP to N8..."I have a quasi-statement from AP. This is coming from a phone call, so don't quote me exactly.--------AP has secured notarized statements from the person who perpetrated this crime. He confessed to a number of accounts that he did this with. He was a highly trusted consultant of the company and it is very possible that he could have played from Scott's house when Scott was not there. He used 3rd party software and did this from a number of locations in the world not limited to Costa Rica.AP also says they have proof that Oscar, Scott and Brent are not associated with this (my note: he did not mention AJ, but I didn't remember to ask him for clarification).AP also says they would like to invite any trusted 2p2 or P5er (b/c Adam Small is in Costa Rica) to come into the office and view the details/data for OSCAR133."

[Naismith 0]

From 2+2:Okay, I just got off the phone with someone who spoke to Russ Hamilton, former owner of UB.Two people will be implicated here, you can probably guess who. One is going to be removed from online poker forever and one is going be removed for a fair amount of time.I was asked not to post specifics and that AP's statement is going to be detailed and is going to be released Sunday morning.

[RDog 0]

Here is the new thread they started at 2+2.http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...p;vc=1&nt=2Here is something from AP to N8..."I have a quasi-statement from AP. This is coming from a phone call, so don't quote me exactly.--------AP has secured notarized statements from the person who perpetrated this crime. He confessed to a number of accounts that he did this with. He was a highly trusted consultant of the company and it is very possible that he could have played from Scott's house when Scott was not there. He used 3rd party software and did this from a number of locations in the world not limited to Costa Rica.AP also says they have proof that Oscar, Scott and Brent are not associated with this (my note: he did not mention AJ, but I didn't remember to ask him for clarification).AP also says they would like to invite any trusted 2p2 or P5er (b/c Adam Small is in Costa Rica) to come into the office and view the details/data for OSCAR133."

LOL, notarized statements, LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. I wonder how much one of those cost in Costa Rica exactly. And the person snuck into his house, even bigger LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.We are never going to get the answers here. That I am 100% convinced of. They just keep tossing stuff on the wall and hoping it sticks.IMO (its my opinion, people can do whatever they want), playing on AP at this point or any point moving forward is pretty unethical. For a company that has damaged the community that we all love and is doing nothing to help it as they continue to lie, deceive and cover up everything, giving them money is tantamount to treason to the rest of the community. A statement needs to be made here by all of us that we will not stand for this shady shit from any company in the future. It AP comes out of this relatively unscathed with people buying different levels of their lies, it will do NOTHING to discourage it from happening again. If not at AP, elsewhere. Everyone has to decide what is important to them and react accordingly.

[Naismith 0]

I find the latest info to be very discouraging. It sounds to me like Absolute did everything they could to protect their bigwigs and, failing that, are removing them from their positions and nothing more. These people stole nearly a million dollars and likely would've done more had they been smart in their cheating.I don't know how anyone could trust this company again.

[gilbertology 0]

I can't wait to read AP's official statement tomorrow and what exactly the punishment will be for the "two"(LOL) supposedly guilty parties. It seems like the only two people who are going to get in trouble are Scott Tom and his buddy AJ Rider and that this was definitely an inside job involving many friends from a Montana frat of all places.copied straight from the latest 2+2 threadTHE PLAYERS--------------------------ABSOLUTE POKER"Absolute Poker and the Absolute Poker website are solely owned and operated by Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, Route 138, Kahnawake, Quebec J0L 1B0. Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG is owned by a Mohawk of Kahnawake and is operated from the sovereign nation of the Mohawks of Kahnawake, located near Montreal Quebec." Established in 2003, AbsolutePoker.com is headquartered in Costa Rica and licensed and regulated in Canada. Absolute Poker purchased Ultimate Bet in Oct, 2006. $10 million in cash and about $140 million in 5 future annual payments.A company profile from ZOOM INFO shows a corporate address as:P.O. Box 025292Miami, FL 33102-5292USA KAHNAWAKE GAMING COMMISSION KCG WEBSITE P.O. Box 1799Old Malone HighwayKahnawake Mohawk Territory, QC J0L 1B0CANADA Established June 10, 1996 and presently comprised of three members appointed by the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake: David Montour (Chairperson), Melanie Mayo, and Kevin Kennedy. The Commission is empowered to regulate and control gaming and gaming related activities conducted within and from the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake in accordance with the highest principles of honesty and integrity.The KGC is currently investigating Absolute Poker. The Fraternity - SAE - MONTANA Many of the founders/employees of Absoulte Poker can be linked to this Montana Fraternity. SCOTT TOM AP was started by Scott Tom and a few Ivy league friends back in 2003. Phil Tom and the other fathers of these kids bankrolled the venture, and Absolute Poker was born. Phil Tom is Scott Tom's FATHER, not his brother. The IP address that this 'other' account was logged in from was traced to the home cable modem of Scott Tom, CEO of Absolute poker. scott@rivieraltd.com is apparently the CEO, and is also the owner of account POTRIPPER. Scott Tom is also apparently the owner of the STEAMROLLER account. If you guys remember, there were two people watching Potripper's table. One is #363; the other is assumed to be Potripper. That second account's email address is scott@rivieraltd.com. The IP address cross-references to someone named Scott Tom, who also appears to be an owner at AP. It should also be noted that the first part of the rivieraltd.com email is "scott@".Scott Tom has been spamming poker forums as recently as June 2007 on behalf of Absolute Poker. Scott Tom has account at Ultimate Bet under the name of 'PotChopper' From brsavage, a highly respected member of the poker community: "Scott Tom is not an ex employee of Absolute. He was at the sale from Excapsa to the AP ownership group, and we have him tied to AP in recent history and I have confirmed from parties within that he is in fact STILL in control of AP. He may be in seclusion in Panama, but his attorneys are acting at his behest in trying to maintain contol of AP."Absolute's statement: "With respect to the claims that Scott Tom, a former Member of Team Absolute Poker, is in anyway involved in wrong-doing, Absolute Poker has requested a formal investigation into that matter as well. Mr. Tom has not been involved with Absolute Poker for over a year and to the best of our knowledge, information and belief has not had access to any of Absolute Poker’s systems, databases or information."AJ GREEN The Potripper account belongs to AJ Green, former Director of Operations at AP and Scott Tom's best friend. AJ Green is currently VP of operations at nine.com and the former director of operations at Absolute. AJ Green was formerly known as Allan Grimard and had a name change once moving to Costa Rica. AJ Green is also POTSLAMMER, he of the 3 posts shilling for AP in his only thread. As we already know, The Watchdog, who comes in to defend him and co-shill for AP in that thread, is probably Scott Tom. AJ Green/Potripper on AP [almost certainly] = FATRAISER on Stars. BRENT BECKLEY Director of Payments and Risk Management at Absolute Poker. alumnus from SAE frat in Montana from 1999. President of Sigma Alpha Epsilon's UM chapter. That player is Brent Beckley, another major player at AP. Brent Beckley worked for AP when a poster propped there. He was a part of support and security. Brent Beckley's last known city of residence is Miami, which is the location of one of the cheater accounts. He was a frat brother of Scott Tom in Montana. Brent plays as RUNNINONMT on UB. His email is brent@rivieraltd.com and Brent is from the montana group of people who run Absolute. Steamroller, a cheating account, is known to have played from Miami.Absolute Poker's recent press releases come out of Miami. OSCAR HILTOscar Hilt = another one of Scott Tom's frat brothers, and was also employed by Absolute, as the CFO maybe? Possibly the account OSCAR133CFO Oscar Hilt Tatum IV, although it seems that he sometimes goes by a combination of just 2 of those names such as Hilt Tatum IV or Oscar Hilt. This post doesn't have any big juicy dramabomb to reveal, just some facts culled about him from various corners of the internet.- He is the CFO of Absolute Poker according to this page ( http://www.onlinecasinosandplayers.com/for...?num=1189786905 ) which describes a recent incident where a plane skidded off a runway in Costa Rica. Interestingly, that incident just happened about a month ago, and the website where the article is reprinted (although far from authoritative) refers to Oscar as the CFO and Tom Scott as the CEO of both Absolute and UB (despite AP's protestations that Scott is no longer involved with the company). You can read the original article from nacion.com here, although it's translated from Spanish to English, I think: http://tinyurl.com/36sdcjScott Tom and Oscar's new wife (above) were also on that plane with him.- There have also been references to Scott Tom now living and/or operating/pulling strings out of Panama. Oscar may be there too, evidenced by this page which appears to be a list of individuals granted residency status by the government of Panama, and has a listing for two Americans named "Oscar Hilt Tatum IV" and "Oscar Hilt Tatum III" for April 9th, 2007. (Note that their records don't have any listing for Scott Tom, at least not since Sept 2005 when the database begins.) Absolute's Statement:"HILT TATUM IS COMPLETLEY UNCONECTED WITH THIS CASE - HE HAS NEVER BEEN THE CFO - HIS WIFE AND FAMILY ARE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS INVESTIGATION - THE COMPANY IS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING - I URGE YOU TO CONTACT THE MODS AND HAVE ALL PICTURES REMOVED - PLEASE TRY AND HELP THIS BEYOND THE CALL - AND THEY ARE AS INNOCENT AS ANYONE. "WILLIAM WILLIS MCMANON - Frat allum from 1995The speculation is that William McManon might be the user of the account "MCBill." MCBILL won a $100,000 dream package on absolute after little tournament play on the website. There are active McBill accounts at Full Tilt and PokerStars.SHANE ALAN BLACKFORD - 1997 SAE Montana Allum.Shane is the administrative contact for Innovative Data Solutions - a Costa Rican Company somehow related to Absoulte Poker. Shane was also a member of the SAE fraternity. For further information on IDS Technical Consulting and how we can work with you, please contact us.IDS Technical ConsultingOficentro de SebanaSan Jose, Costa RicaTelephone - 011-506-520-0525Email - info@idsworld.netInnovative Data SolutionsSBO 306, 7333 NW 54th StreetMiami, Florida 33166United States6786312244DAVID CLAINER Senior Vice President at Absolute PokerFRED ROMAN Affiliate Relations Manager for Absolute Poker MARK SEIFMark seif has huge endorsement deal dating back from when Scott Tom is CEO of AP. Mark Seif has been seen in public with Scott Tom many times.SEIF's QUESTIONABLE SESSION THE ACCOUNTS Most of these account have recently won large buy-in tournaments on Absolute Poker. Many have similar questionable play. Most have played very few tornaments on Absolute before winning a large buy-in event. ----------------------------USER 363 - Unknown - observed Table of Potripper in 1K win1. This guy "enters" table 13 at 2007-09-12 21:02:14, which is 2 minutes and 14 seconds after the tourney started.2. Table 13 is the table which POTRIPPER was playing on3. He never leaves the table, which means he was observing the table until at least 11:20 PM EST (at least, that's how I understand this)4. His IP address is based in Costa Rica.5. This is the most damning. He is user id 363 at AP. That means he was created in the system very very early on. Most of these user ids are in the 6 or 7 figures.The guy who was on the same IP as the user 363 had his email set to an email that is hosted by Kahnawake Gaming Commission. Absolute's statement:"The results of that investigation indicated that to the best of Absolute Poker’s knowledge, information and belief there was no security breach. Specifically, Absolute Poker’s internal investigation determined that it is impossible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards."Absolute's 2nd Statement:"Absolute Poker has identified an internal security breach that compromised our systems for a limited period of time."GREYCAT - Crushed High stakes limit games on Absolute. Chip dumped large amounts to SUPERCARDM55. GREYCAT won more that $100,000 in high stakes limit games on Absoulte. Might have never had a losing session.DOUBLEDRAG -DOUBLEDRAG won huge amounts of money in high stakes no-limit games on Absoulte playing nearly every hand. DOUBLEDRAG chip dumped $200k and $300k to Romnaldo (or REYMNALDO) -THESE ARE 3 CONSECUTIVE HANDS where DOUBLEDRAG and ROMNALDO capped every street playing $200/$400 heads-up, only to have DOUBLEDRAG fold for one bet on the river. HERE After cheating story became public DOUBLEDRAG dumped 27k on the tables.STEAMROLLER STEAMROLLER won the $150 buy-in on 8/19/2007 for $20,700. STEAMROLLER also won the $100 buy-in on 8/19/2007 for $1636. Absolute Poker admitted this account belongs to the Absolute Poker staff. Steamroller is linker to Scott Tom.POTRIPPER - won $1K tournament on 9/12/2007 for $30,000. User #2234890 is POTRIPPER in the AP user database. POTRIPPER folded his first couple hands before the 363 observer entered the table... and that's when he started the suspicious activities. .xls file mistakenly sent out by Absoulte support. YOU TUBE OF WIN PAYUP - Won $1K on 8/23/2007 for $35,700. Sheets a well known internet pro commented: "but it was on august22, before the potripper tourney, where I got 2nd to one of the cheating accounts, Payup, in the 1k mtt.I laughed about Payups invincibility throughout the course of the tourney with inissint while on the phone but didnt think anything of it really until 2+2 started looking into the potripper tourney which i THINK occured later. I sent adanthar my hh for the payup tourney and he essentilly confirmed that the same shenanigans were involved and the payup account was also closed by AP."Unconfirmed accounts:OSCAR133 - There was an "Oscar Hilt" at SAE in 1999. 2 tournaments, 1 9 entrants, 1 296, won both, total winnings 38k. OSCAR133 won the $500 buy-in on 10/6/2007 for $37,500. MCBILLThere is speculation that this account is linked to another SAE Montana Fraternity brother - WILLIAM WILLIS MCMANON. On 10/7/2007 won $200 buy-in event for $100,000. Montana resident and online poker player "MCBill" probably feels like he's struck gold this week after winning access to a possible over $100 million in online poker tournament prize pool money. Absolute Poker revealed that the online poker player hailing from Helena, Montana has won the 5th Absolute Dream Package on October 7th. Edited by adanthar (10/20/07 07:51 PM)

[phlegm 6]

Wats with the mark seif reference. Is he implicated in any of this?

[Naismith 0]

Wats with the mark seif reference. Is he implicated in any of this?

There's a rumor that a couple of Absolute's big name pros, Mark Seif and Zach, used the super account.

[RhinestoneCowboy 2]

Sorry Tritz.

[Zach6668 513]

There's a rumor that a couple of Absolute's big name pros, Mark Seif and Zach, used the super account.

Yeah, but at least I was smart about it.If it weren't for these idiots, no one would have ever caught on that a stuggling to breakeven small stakes limit player was a superuser.It was the perfect crime.

[Naismith 0]

Yeah, but at least I was smart about it.If it weren't for these idiots, no one would have ever caught on that a stuggling to breakeven small stakes limit player was a superuser.It was the perfect crime.

Yeah, it was hard to figure you for a cheater, what with the losing money and all.

[Sens-Eh 0]

Wats with the mark seif reference. Is he implicated in any of this?

Not specifically in these incidents. But there is an old controversy from Feb 2006 that is eerily similar...Discussed Originally HereThe amusing part is reading that thread again now - and seeing a rep from AP state back in February 2006 that there was no way of seeing everyone's hole cards...That's always been there line up until what -- 24 hours ago when the evidence became too much for them.......Actually the interesting part is how people on that thread back then theorized as to what the reaction of a site might be if they were ever exposed - how far they would go to cover it up, etc... guess we are finding out now!

[SpiderGuard 0]

Call me skeptical, but I'm leaning toward the idea that there's something even worse out there that AP is covering up and that's why they're admitting they were wrong. I have no proof of this, or anything beyond a gut feeling, but I think that the Internet Poker Community (IPC) is close to figuring out something bigger than AP will admit to.

Quoting myself to hope that people will continue looking in to this to figure out what really happened, rather than ending the hunt because AP has issued a couple BS statements and give people back some cash.

[vbnautilus 48]

Quoting myself to hope that people will continue looking in to this to figure out what really happened, rather than ending the hunt because AP has issued a couple BS statements and give people back some cash.

I don't think there's much danger of that happening. The people who have been investigating this and applying pressure to AP have not been satisfied with their BS in the past. I don't see anyone falling for a half-assed PR story on AP's part. We'll get to the bottom of this, eventually.