Something Bad Is Gonna Happen To Ap

[vbnautilus 48]

I agree the content of that press release is nonsense. However, combined with the information in chris savage's post, it is significant to me in that it indicates control of the public statements and operation of Absolute has been wrested from A.J. Green. Apparently he was responsible for the outright lies contained in the previous statements to cover his ass. It's an interesting move to dig up the mohawks to try and find someone involved in this who might have a chance to be perceived as honorable. I'm sure if they intend to take legal action against Green they have to be careful what they say in the press.

[RDog 0]

They just keep throwing shit on the wall to see if it sticks. They can go **** themselves.

[chgocubs99 0]

They just keep throwing shit on the wall to see if it sticks. They can go **** themselves.

1) True...2) You allright man? Never seen you angry at all in 2 years and in the last two weeks you are very hostile. Not a big concern I guess, but just surprising.

[Naismith 0]

They just keep throwing shit on the wall to see if it sticks. They can go **** themselves.

I can't believe anyone would still use Absolute after all of this BS.

[RDog 0]

2) You allright man? Never seen you angry at all in 2 years and in the last two weeks you are very hostile. Not a big concern I guess, but just surprising.

Nope. Not at all. I quit a very good corporate job to pretty much play full time 2 months ago and I have a feeling this shit is going to hurt the online community for a very long time in a bunch of different ways. I am pissed beyond belief about this. And honestly, everyone should be.

[chgocubs99 0]

Nope. Not at all. I quit a very good corporate job to pretty much play full time 2 months ago and I have a feeling this shit is going to hurt the online community for a very long time in a bunch of different ways. I am pissed beyond belief about this. And honestly, everyone should be.

People, in general, have tendency to not get pissed at things that don't affect them directly and immediately.

[RDog 0]

People, in general, have tendency to not get pissed at things that don't affect them directly and immediately.

I have 0 money on AP and this affects me indirectly in a ton of ways. Thousands of fishies will not open accounts and/or stop playing because they will be 100% convinced the game is rigged. Not just at AP, but everywhere. Indirectly, this scandal has taken money from ALL of our pockets. Our government now has a "smoking gun" to pin their hopes and dreams for their joke of "family values" campaign. I'm sure there are other ways but I am trying to keep up with this while watching the Cowboy game so I am done thinking for a few moments.

[hblask 1]

posted at p5s by brsavageI received word while at lunch that the AP release is due out very shortly. In a nutshell they still have much of the investigation to complete, and that will take time. So far they have definitive proof as to who the culprit was, how he did it, and the fact that he did in fact cash out a significant amount. Further, I am being told that he had more accounts than even we had realized, and they are doing extensive investigations because some of these accounts were attempted to be deleted by him.This person was the second in charge and has been fired from AP, and his one superior Scott Tom is going to be removed from running AP for a significant period of time. For legal reasons the AP release is not going to specifically name this person, and I will elaborate on that fact and why it makes perfect sense. Most of us know this persons name already as it has already been widely reported. This person was Scott Tom's best friend and actually lived at Scott Tom's house in Costa Rica. Scott Tom has been living in Panama for quite some time, and the day to day operations of AP were left to the care of his best friend and second in charge at AP. Unfortunately since the person in command of AP was also the thief he obviously issued numerous steadfast denials of any wrong doing. Basically he was investigating himself.Since this person was a high ranking official he had access to very sensitive information, not only regarding the operations of the company, but also very sensitive information regarding player accounts, balances, names, deposits, withdrawals etc. Because of the Internet Gaming Act their is still a wide gray area as to what is sensitive and what is not. As such the attorneys for both AP and the KGC have the same opinion that is best not to release his name publicly for the simple fact that they do not want more harm being done to the industry as a result of this person possibly trying to disclose this information publicly as a retaliation for him being fired from AP.Further, even though Scott Tom was not involved in the actual theft, he is responsible for the actions of his friend and second in charge of the company, which is why he is being removed for a significant time frame while the entire process of restoring trust in AP takes place. I am being told that all monies players were cheated out of will be repaid. I also have made strong overtures and recommendations that in any case involving a player being cheated AP should err on the side of caution and compensate the player if their is any doubt that he was affected. As I stated before, they already have found several accounts that even we had not known about, and evidence of some accounts that the second in charge tried to delete. All of this investigation is going to take time, but it appears that simply based on this disclosure that they are definitively going to make a concerted effort to make things right.

This reply ties up all the loose ends, I think. If this is the content of the AP press release, I think it is a satisfying conclusion. Did they stonewall? Yeah, cuz the guy in charge of putting out the information is the guilty guy. I think if AP makes this statement, the poker community should be pretty happy.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

This reply ties up all the loose ends, I think. If this is the content of the AP press release, I think it is a satisfying conclusion. Did they stonewall? Yeah, cuz the guy in charge of putting out the information is the guilty guy. I think if AP makes this statement, the poker community should be pretty happy.

Are you serious?I don't know the Financial situation of this company, but it is certainly a company that has Tens if not Hundreds of millions of dollars per year in Gross Revenues. Any company of this size needs to have sufficient Accounting controls in place. That the two TOP leaders of this company were so inept AND uncontrolled is more than inexcusable. It is unfathomable. This statement essentially says that the top two executives in this company were a mixture of corrupt and incompetent. The top guy goes to Panama, and leaves the second in command at his home in CR to STEAL from their CUSTOMERS?!? And this explanation is OK?Where are the checks and balances?Where are the auditors? And the Regulators? …oh yeah, I forgot. This is an “Indian Nation” running an unregulated company. The Kanawagee Gaming Commission?Is that some sort of poor jopke?Are you kidding me? This is more than just a conflict of interest; it is completely unaccountable and not acceptable. This situation is a PERFECT example of what happens when there are no checks and balances.They REMOVED a couple of guys? News flash: that doesn't eliminate the ROOT CAUSE. The Root Cause is that there are no standard checks and balances in place to prevent this. Until they put in standard audit controls, the same issues remain behind.

[PokerFan 0]

AP response is predictable and expected....Does it answer all the questions? of course not...will they ever answer all the questions? of course not...If you love to play poker on line trust me you want this to go away as quick as AP does....the US government it dieing to have an excuse to shut it all down....while I doubt one incident will have the gov. jumping in.....anymore episodes like this and they will....

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Nope. Not at all. I quit a very good corporate job to pretty much play full time 2 months ago and I have a feeling this shit is going to hurt the online community for a very long time in a bunch of different ways. I am pissed beyond belief about this. And honestly, everyone should be.

Ouch.I have a lot I could say on this, but it'd only piss you off.

[hblask 1]

Are you serious?I don't know the Financial situation of this company, but it is certainly a company that has Tens if not Hundreds of millions of dollars per year in Gross Revenues. Any company of this size needs to have sufficient Accounting controls in place. That the two TOP leaders of this company were so inept AND uncontrolled is more than inexcusable. It is unfathomable. This statement essentially says that the top two executives in this company were a mixture of corrupt and incompetent. The top guy goes to Panama, and leaves the second in command at his home in CR to STEAL from their CUSTOMERS?!? And this explanation is OK?Where are the checks and balances?Where are the auditors? And the Regulators? …oh yeah, I forgot. This is an “Indian Nation” running an unregulated company. The Kanawagee Gaming Commission?Is that some sort of poor jopke?Are you kidding me? This is more than just a conflict of interest; it is completely unaccountable and not acceptable. This situation is a PERFECT example of what happens when there are no checks and balances.They REMOVED a couple of guys? News flash: that doesn't eliminate the ROOT CAUSE. The Root Cause is that there are no standard checks and balances in place to prevent this. Until they put in standard audit controls, the same issues remain behind.

OK, yeah, I meant that it adequately explains what happened. I agree, they need to say they are taking steps to prevent it from happening in the future. They are unlikely to release the details of such plans, for obvious reasons. But in the end, what can you do about insiders using their position of power? Not a lot, except punish them when they are caught.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

OK, yeah, I meant that it adequately explains what happened. I agree, they need to say they are taking steps to prevent it from happening in the future. They are unlikely to release the details of such plans, for obvious reasons. But in the end, what can you do about insiders using their position of power? Not a lot, except punish them when they are caught.

There is a LOT you can do to limit any insider's ability to abuse their power. I work for a large Corporation. We are audited by INDEPENDENT professionals. Our large projects are also audited separately. Security guidelines are published - and audited. Separation of Duties matrices are developed - and audited.The issue here is that we have an unregulated Company in an unregulated industry being run by an Indian Nation headquartered in Costa Rica. At a minimum they need to establish BASIC internal controls to prevent this sort of situation. But that is short term and insufficient. To FIX this they need to as an industry VOLUNARILY give up their arrogance and allow INDEPENDENT regulators come in and clean up their mess. Until and unless that happens, the root cause will remain and this could happen there or at any other On-Line Gaming Provider...btw - where is the "punishment"?All they did was "remove" the employees. It sounds like the top guy wasn't even fired. Since this is an unregulated industry, I don't even know if there are any fines or jail time that can be assessed. Nice.

[vbnautilus 48]

OK, yeah, I meant that it adequately explains what happened. I agree, they need to say they are taking steps to prevent it from happening in the future. They are unlikely to release the details of such plans, for obvious reasons. But in the end, what can you do about insiders using their position of power? Not a lot, except punish them when they are caught.

Agreed. But the real issue here as I see it is that there is no independent oversight. Who is to punish them, their own company? The friends of their Indian investors?Edit: RAC just said this a lot better.

[RDog 0]

Ouch.I have a lot I could say on this, but it'd only piss you off.

LOL, meh, I'm perfectly fine with my decision. I just HATE, HATE, HATE people that have no desire to do "what is right". Too many people are only out for themselves and that is very sad.

[RDog 0]

I especially love that the "criminal" is holding a gun to their head that if they release his name, he will release info. I'm just not buying that this info is related to player accounts, withdrawals, etc. More likely it is directly related to AP past or current "issues" and even more likely, current corporate structure.

[vbnautilus 48]

I especially love that the "criminal" is holding a gun to their head that if they release his name, he will release info. I'm just not buying that this info is related to player accounts, withdrawals, etc. More likely it is directly related to AP past or current "issues" and even more likely, current corporate structure.

Yeah, like this gem which got lost in one of the 2p2 threads:

7) New (albeit minor) dramabomb I have been holding back: Those at the 2006 WSOP probably remember an AP booth in front of the Rio Amazon room, where they were giving away bags of popcorn. You were asked to give $1 for each popcorn bag, which was promised to go to a specific Las Vegas charity. According to a reliable source, this money, which added up to $10,000, was simply stolen by Scott Tom and friends, and never given to the charity! The source also told me that a longtime AP employee quit over this matter. While arguably minor compared to the 7-figure sum stolen in this scandal, this incident was despicable and cheated a good charity out of $10,000 of promised money. Since AP is all about repairing their image at the moment, I figured I'd take the time to right this wrong. NOTICE TO AP: If my reliable source was somehow incorrect about this, let me know and tell me which charity received the money. I will personally verify your claim and publicly apologize if wrong about this. However, I would be shocked if this information I was given was incorrect, given the high degree of reliability of this particular source.

[Fade2241 0]

OK, yeah, I meant that it adequately explains what happened. I agree, they need to say they are taking steps to prevent it from happening in the future. They are unlikely to release the details of such plans, for obvious reasons. But in the end, what can you do about insiders using their position of power? Not a lot, except punish them when they are caught.

Exactly. & Now nobody can be trusted there ever again. Screw AP. They are DONE.

[20TN40 0]

I especially love that the "criminal" is holding a gun to their head that if they release his name, he will release info. I'm just not buying that this info is related to player accounts, withdrawals, etc. More likely it is directly related to AP past or current "issues" and even more likely, current corporate structure.

Rdog, in your opinion, what needs to be done at this point to satisfy the masses?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Exactly. & Now nobody can be trusted there ever again. Screw AP. They are DONE.

My fear (remember me: Chicken Little) is that this isn't just an AP issue - I feel it is endemic to the Industry. They need to band together as an Industry and redefine their existence. Even if they don't regulate they need to ACT like a regulated Industry. For Example: No more letting your TOP TWO executives hang out together on a permanent boondoggle in Central America.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

The Kanawagee Tribe is circling the wagons in the face of relentless attacks from on-line cowboys.

[RDog 0]

Rdog, in your opinion, what needs to be done at this point to satisfy the masses?

I'm sure for quite a few people, including myself, they have passed the point of no return. I have never played on AP, which will continue to be true. I had basically stopped playing on UB since the site pretty much sucks, that will also continue to be true.Others? I am guessing that once the refunds start rolling in and they reveal what accounts were compromised and how, that will be enough. To each his own I guess.

[20TN40 0]

I'm sure for quite a few people, including myself, they have passed the point of no return. I will have never played on AP, which will continue to be true. I had basically stopped playing on UB since the site pretty much sucks, that will also continue to be true.Others? I am guessing that once the refunds start rolling in and they reveal what accounts were compromised and how, that will be enough. To each his own I guess.

Maybe I should phrase it a little different. As for FCP posters, you who have never and will never play on AP, have been one of the most vocal and most irate posters in this thread. What, if anything other than what has been done so far and what is being done (reimbursement to those who lost money) can be done to settle your nerves?And please understand that I'm not calling you out RDog, just asking. I've followed this thread and others from the beginning because I have a whopping $27 on AP and I do enjoy playing there. Of course, I can't withdraw $27 so I'll have to play it down (or up!). I just don't know what else can be done at this point to calm the masses. Of course we all hope that what does come from this is some sort of self regulation so that the government doesn't step in and ruin it, but most of the time self regulation doesn't really work. I don't have an answer but I'm sure the ripples of this will be felt for a long time on all online poker websites.

[cardcore 0]

AP changed their story; the latest is here:http://www.texasholdem.com/news.php?id=169

[RDog 0]

Maybe I should phrase it a little different. As for FCP posters, you who have never and will never play on AP, have been one of the most vocal and most irate posters in this thread. What, if anything other than what has been done so far and what is being done (reimbursement to those who lost money) can be done to settle your nerves?And please understand that I'm not calling you out RDog, just asking. I've followed this thread and others from the beginning because I have a whopping $27 on AP and I do enjoy playing there. Of course, I can't withdraw $27 so I'll have to play it down (or up!). I just don't know what else can be done at this point to calm the masses. Of course we all hope that what does come from this is some sort of self regulation so that the government doesn't step in and ruin it, but most of the time self regulation doesn't really work. I don't have an answer but I'm sure the ripples of this will be felt for a long time on all online poker websites.

Like I said....for me, nothing at this point. That doesn't mean I can't still be irritated at them continually dragging this thing out. IMO, they need to come clean with all that they know....who did it, how they did it, what they have done to stop it from happening in the future (that means using redundancy as opposed to just getting rid of the bad apples btw), and of course, finish compensating everyone that lost money from this. The reason the "masses" are still upset is because AP keeps giving bits of information to people and then making press releases that are much less incriminating than what we already know. My honest opinion is the only thing that would truly satisfy me at this point is if AP dried up and died because everyone cashed all their money out and stopped playing there. I'm not naive to think that will happen. I know people have differing reasons and differing ideas on what is right and what is wrong, but that is what I THINK should happen. Even then, I wouldn't be happy because of the damage that has been done regardless of what happens from here forward.