Playing Perfect Poker.

[Jennings7 0]

Isn't a mistake in poker anytime you make a decision that you wouldn't have made if you could see the other persons cards?

[antistuff 0]

Isn't a mistake in poker anytime you make a decision that you wouldn't have made if you could see the other persons cards?

thats a mistake according to sklanskys fundamental theorem of poker. if you are not making "mistakes" like that you are probably not playing very well.

[jmbreslin 0]

I can't convince him that his bust out plays are far less important than the mistakes he makes from the start that allow him to be the short stack in the first place.

This is a point worth highlighting. It's easy to complain about bad beats or bad luck when you push your stack in the middle and bust out, but it is important to realize that you are most likely in the position of having to push because of the way you've played hands before that point in time. Sure, sometimes you're completely card dead and end up shortstacked through no fault of your own, but usually there are hands you can point to earlier in the tourney that have caused you to be shorstacked and having to push for your tourney life now.

[ThreeBet 0]

No such thing as perfect poker ... everyone can always play better. Just like golf, no matter how hard you work at it you will never be as good as you could be ... every day is an opportunity to get better, if you want to.Great posts in this thread ... Steve posting more regularly is bring out some great discussions. That's not to say there weren't great discussions before from very good posters (you know who you are ).Antistuff's "if you're not making those mistakes then you're not playing well" is very true, imo. Like in sports, if you're not cheating then you're not trying. If you're not trying to expand your game and understand all the options available to you on every decision you're faced with (vs just doing what's "correct") then you severely limiting your potential. The best part about making mistakes is it gives you first-hand experience to try and get better, and when approached that way, will help avoid steaming and tilt, imo.

[Ex_Matt 0]

The only mistake I make in tournies is busting out of them =[

[biff_goods 0]

mistakes are part of the game whether intentional unintentional and knowingly or unknowingly if you don't make any mistakes while playing you are actually doing yourself an injustice because the key is to not make zero mistakes....it's to win the battle of mistakes. sometimes you have to make small mistakes to get your opponent to make big ones. And sometimes you don't even know you made a mistake. Example: Folding to a bet on the river when you actually had the best hand. Opponent doesn't show.

[silkyjonson 1]

No one plays perfect poker and if someone is saying that they do on a regular basis they are hurting themselves. As Steve has said in the past you have to be accountable for your own play and this means that you have to find a way to pinpoint the things that you are doing wrong and change them. Confidence is your ally in poker because it allows you to make plays that take courage because you trust your instincts, at the same time being so confident that it blinds you to your own mistakes can hamper a player from growing and getting better. You can play a specific hand perfect, but no one plays perfect poker over any significant period of time. In order to make strides as a player you must be like a hound dog searching out your mistakes and fixing them. I honestly get excited when I realize I have found something that I have been doing wrong or a mistake that I made because I know that I have just gotten a little better and that means $$$ in the long run. This is another reason why players who jump stakes become better. The higher in stakes you go the more apparent and the more you get punished for your mistakes, at low levels your mistakes may not be exploited but as you move up the better players spot mistakes and pounce on them.

[Pan 0]

Annette's guideline on how she plays small pairs (on pocketfives) depending on her stack size really helped me, along with some other interesting tidbits of strategy she provided.

Link?EDIT: Found it (I think): http://www.pocketfives.com/BEB66C26-8D40-4...F11C131E60.aspx'Other tidbits'?

[Mercury69 3]

I'll respond without reading other responses, so I can keep my answer within my own perspective:I can recall hands that I've played "perfectly", but I cannot recall any tourney where I've played "perfectly". With regard to the perfect hands, well, I've won some and lost some. IMO, the concept of "perfect poker" does not exist. The reason for this is that you are on control of your own actions only. While some of these actions are designed to influence your opponents, this will not always work. Why? Your opponent(s) will not always interpret your action the way you would like them to, which skews and widens the "results" of your various plays. What worked with your flopped set against one guy isn't going to go the same way against another opponent, even if both opponents have the same hole cards, the flop/turn/river are the same, the blinds are the same and the bet sizes remain cnostant.Additionally, "perfect poker" cannot exist unless you excise COMPLETELY the luck factor and this is not possible. You will never, ever have control of what cards are coming on the flop/turn/river. This is why bad beats and suck outs are so common. If you can calculate how many times you've had all your chips in with the best hand and lost, you will realise this to be true.Frankly, the "luck factor" is the hardest thing for me to deal with. Sure, I suck out on people. Sure, I get my money in bad and lose. In these cases, at least I know I can attribute my loss to a mistake I made. The same cannot, imo, be said about the "luck factor". Play perfectly and lose??? Not possible in chess or any other game based completely on skill. "Perfect" assumes you are making the right moves at the right times, in anticipation of and in reaction to your opponent(s) actions.Bottom line: You need to get lucky sometimes. You have to remain conscious that you didn't win because you played perfectly. Rather, you won because the small edges went your way, your opponent(s) didn't do something right, the cards fell in harmony with your hole cards, etc...Put all these factors together and you will be far from perfect, yet you may still be a winner.Mistakes I Make:- Having difficulty reading a board when the betting is weak all around. At times like that, I think "They must be trapping" and I'll get kind of paranoid, recalling the times I've been drawn out on. I end up playing the had timidly and missing an opportunity to take down the pot on the turn or I bet too weak on the river and get called by bottom pair (value call?).- I limp too much when frustrated from not getting quality hands. I can't seem to commit to playing either TAG or LAG and fall in between, which seems to get me killed. I also tend to call small raises too often when I'm in the blinds, leaving me OOP without a plan when I don't hit the flop hard.- Bet sizing. While I try to mix it up some, I try to have some constants (ie: 3xBB raise when opening the pot, wide range...hope to confuse people who are doing the math of it). What often happens is I'll overbet a strong hand and underbet a weak hand and hope that my opponent(s) sense the opposite. This is not a rule for me, but it appears to screw me out of opportunities to take down potsI dunno...that's it for now...

[The Phoenix 0]

Link?EDIT: Found it (I think): http://www.pocketfives.com/BEB66C26-8D40-4...F11C131E60.aspx'Other tidbits'?

She originally posted the chart in response to a post asking how to play a small-medium pairs, and he had some other general tournament strategy questions. When she started the new thread she left out her other thoughts. I copied and pasted them for my own reference so here they are...Stacksizes r key, u wanna be going after the stacks that are vulnerable and not the big stacks that can afford to lose chips to u.-Pay close attention to the table. Who limps a lot? Who raises in LP? Who will fold to reraises? Who backs down if u put a lot of pressure on? Who chases a lot? etc, and adjust ur game by taking advantage of the weak players and staying away from the stronger ones.-Once you've figured out whos weak, theres no mercy. Raise their limps every time if ur position is somewhat good and the limper isnt too shortstacked. -If only one player sees the flop:-bet almost no matter what, unless the flop is like 9sTsJh, then check behind and evaluate, because theres too big of a chance the hands he limped with connected to the board and will call u down.-In three way pots in position:-You wanna be betting most (high-low-low) flops like J25r, A37r, K85r etc because it wont hit a lot of hands unless they hit a set or has the high card. -Also morphan flops like 772, 664 etc. -Be careful on draw heavy flops and check behind most of the time.-Bet any four card straight or flush on the river if checked to for obvious reasons-In multiway pots (3+):-I'll keep it simple.... check/fold 99% of the time without a very strong read on all players in the potWhen ur stack is 15-20bbs, try to look for spots to resteal from ppl that can fold. Dont openraise a lot of pots because u will get shoved on often and cant ever call. (ASIDE: I found this the most useful, I adjusted my raising range accordingly)With 10-12bbs or less, try to look for a good spot to shove. Dont do it from early position unless u absolutely have to, (5-6bbs) You can NOT afford to lose ur fold equity cuz ur only way to get chips is to win post without showdowns.

[armen13 0]

Most frustrating by far is how alone I feel at times. I play by different rules than most on this forum. I play FL mixed games in MTT format at micro limits. I don't have a forum. Tourney strat is 99.9% NLHE. O8B is mostly cash game strat. Stud is a ghost town most of the time. All of the protegee/teacher type programs aim for midlimits and are mainly hold 'em. I don't have a lot of people to bounce ideas off of. experience.

Dude, post some hands, maybe we can get something going. I am just as tired as you are of hearing about AK after early limpers or JJ OOP (not knocking these topics just saying need some variety). Wouldn't mind if some stud8 discussions get going, hey maybe even Daniel would join in, who knows.Also, I don't remember if you play the Nego HORSE, if you don't then it's worth a try.

[Pan 0]

She originally posted the chart in response to a post asking how to play a small-medium pairs, and he had some other general tournament strategy questions. When she started the new thread she left out her other thoughts. I copied and pasted them for my own reference so here they are......Good stuff...

Nice, thanks.

[silkyjonson 1]

relevant article to the topic

[Mercury69 3]

Good article, Stroky Johnson...thanks...