Tptk + Nut Flush Draw On The Flop

[psujohn 0]

Live poker at MGM 1/2 NL. This is about the 3rd hand at the table (new table just started up). Villain and I both have right around $200 starting stack (max buy-in at MGM).Limp in EP with Ah9h, one other limper, villain makes it $15 from LP, I call as does the other limper between us.Flop 9c 6h 3h - $45 in the potI lead for $20, MP folds, villain makes it $60 to go, I ...I know the PF call will probably get some complaint but a $15 raise in this game doesn't really mean much - specially from LP.

[No_Neck 0]

Live poker at MGM 1/2 NL. This is about the 3rd hand at the table (new table just started up). Villain and I both have right around $200 starting stack (max buy-in at MGM).Limp in EP with Ah9h, one other limper, villain makes it $15 from LP, I call as does the other limper between us.Flop 9c 6h 3h - $45 in the potI lead for $20, MP folds, villain makes it $60 to go, I ...I know the PF call will probably get some complaint but a $15 raise in this game doesn't really mean much - specially from LP.

All you can eat baby...

[tskillz187 0]

I shove, you have most likely 14 outs which is good enough for me. You are also playing the hand just like a set so he may fold an overpair, not very likely but you have greater than 0 fold equity if he has an overpair. It's likely that he has 1010-AA with AA being least likely obviously. You fare fine against those hands.

[mtdesmoines 3]

All you can eat baby...

QFT. You're in this for two cards. You don't want to be put in a spot to have to call with a brick on the turn.

[psujohn 0]

That's what I figured.I think for 10 seconds or so and shove. Villain goes in the tank and eventually folds QQ face up. I wouldn't expect QQ would fold but he had no hearts so I'm a very slight favorite.Oddly enough villain posts the hand in a trip report on AVP.

[mtdesmoines 3]

That's what I figured.I think for 10 seconds or so and shove. Villain goes in the tank and eventually folds QQ face up. I wouldn't expect QQ would fold but he had no hearts so I'm a very slight favorite.Oddly enough villain posts the hand in a trip report on AVP.

Small world.

[Roberts2003 0]

That's what I figured.I think for 10 seconds or so and shove. Villain goes in the tank and eventually folds QQ face up. I wouldn't expect QQ would fold but he had no hearts so I'm a very slight favorite.Oddly enough villain posts the hand in a trip report on AVP.

that is a very strange fold by this guy. since you said it was the 3rd hand of the table, he literally had no read on how agg, tight, or loose you are. adding to the fact that you guys are only 100BB deep, thats a very bad fold on his part, and a standard, good play on your part.

[Zach6668 513]

I reaaaaaally LOL outloud at people who make a point of folding their strong hands face up. That is all.

[Highlow16 0]

As played I shove. I would prefer a check raise on the flop instead of leading 20 into a 48 pot. Well, If your going to get it in the middle no matter what then maybe leading is the best play because the player inbetween might come along for the 20. I think its a hard hand to screw up either way.

[simo_8ball 0]

I know the PF call will probably get some complaint but a $15 raise in this game doesn't really mean much - specially from LP.

I don't like the preflop limp.I don't like the preflop call of the raise. You are out of position with a hand that has some real reverse implied odds to it. Even if you know he is raising junk this is an awkward hand to play. Given it's the 3rd hand, you can't have a read.I can see c/r or b/r here being good lines postflop.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I don't like the preflop limp.I don't like the preflop call of the raise. You are out of position with a hand that has some real reverse implied odds to it. Even if you know he is raising junk this is an awkward hand to play. Given it's the 3rd hand, you can't have a read.I can see c/r or b/r here being good lines postflop.

Well played. I don't mind the preflop limp with a weak ace. Isn't what he did post flop a b/r?...of course I really tend to under play top pair and flush draws way too often

[simo_8ball 0]

I don't mind the preflop limp with a weak ace.

I don't absolutely hate it, but given that I don't like calling a raise OOP with it, it's a limp/fold line. I think a raise behind is quite likely so I'm investing $2 hoping noone raises so I have a slim chance to catch a good flop OOP. Ok, that's making it sound terrible when it isn't but it illustrates the problem I have with it.

Isn't what he did post flop a b/r?

Yeah. Just saying that either line, b/r or c/r would work. With deeper stacks I could also see c/c being an option.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I don't like the preflop limp.I don't like the preflop call of the raise. You are out of position with a hand that has some real reverse implied odds to it. Even if you know he is raising junk this is an awkward hand to play. Given it's the 3rd hand, you can't have a read.I can see c/r or b/r here being good lines postflop.

QFT.A prime virtue of a suited ace is stacking a smaller flush in a deep situation. 100BB isn't enough of a longshot potential payday to justify 7.5 BB preflop, especially when that 100BB might be difficult to extract from out of position.People in general tend to rationalize playing junk because they have good position. But it then doesn't make sense for them to ignore position when they have a decent hand out of position. The real reason for playing both hands was because they want the action.I think the hero's play after the flop is good.

[mtdesmoines 3]

QFT.A prime virtue of a suited ace is stacking a smaller flush in a deep situation. 100BB isn't enough of a longshot potential payday to justify 7.5 BB preflop, especially when that 100BB might be difficult to extract from out of position.People in general tend to rationalize playing junk because they have good position. But it then doesn't make sense for them to ignore position when they have a decent hand out of position. The real reason for playing both hands was because they want the action.I think the hero's play after the flop is good.

7.5 BB preflop ain't much at the MGM, IMHO.

[simo_8ball 0]

People in general tend to rationalize playing junk because they have good position.

<-------------------- Hi.Until recently I ran at 38/25 full ring, occasionally moving to about 45/25 at shorthanded tables. Now I've managed to get the 73s and 34o calls vs UTG raises out of my system somewhat.

[simo_8ball 0]

7.5 BB preflop ain't much at the MGM, IMHO.

Might not be. It's still a lot of your stack though.

[David_Nicoson 1]

7.5 BB preflop ain't much at the MGM, IMHO.

Understood. The typical raise is more.But 100:7.5 is still the same ratio anywhere. The whole reason reason preflop raises are big in shallow 1/2 live games is because people generally have insufficient standards for calling raises. We don't have to be one of those people.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Typical raise or not, it's still a large percentage of our stack for a hand that has no real good implied odds but tons of reverse implied odds. I think the limp is fine and the call of the raise preflop is not fine.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Typical raise or not, it's still a large percentage of our stack for a hand that has no real good implied odds but tons of reverse implied odds. I think the limp is fine and the call of the raise preflop is not fine.

That's only if you assume the raise is from a hand that's strong enough to "justify" it in the first place.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Understood. The typical raise is more.But 100:7.5 is still the same ratio anywhere. The whole reason reason preflop raises are big in shallow 1/2 live games is because people generally have insufficient standards for calling raises. We don't have to be one of those people.

200:7.5

[Acid_Knight 2]

That's only if you assume the raise is from a hand that's strong enough to "justify" it in the first place.

If you or your opponent are new to the table, the default assumption should be that their hands are strong enough to justify the raise until they show you otherwise, IMO.

[simo_8ball 0]

200:7.5

How do you know the player behind is coming along?

[cMcMonkey 0]

That's only if you assume the raise is from a hand that's strong enough to "justify" it in the first place.

Even if his hand is as bad as ours, he's got the positional edge. I understand you can't give a lot of credit at live 1/2, but 3rd hand, no read you have to give a little credit. Almost any flop except the one that came down (including an A flop with <2 hearts) is going to either be a c/f or make for some very tough decisions against an unknown. Why bother now for a marginal hand, when you're likely to get paid off well by all the monkeys in short order?If we know Villain (and the other caller) to be a fishcake, then calling makes more sense to me. All that said, its not the worst thing, as we can be aware of potential for trouble and chances are Villain is going to be a typical 1/2 slug. Personally, I'm folding to the raise OOP.After the flop its pretty standard.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Even if his hand is as bad as ours, he's got the positional edge. I understand you can't give a lot of credit at live 1/2, but 3rd hand, no read you have to give a little credit. Almost any flop except the one that came down (including an A flop with <2 hearts) is going to either be a c/f or make for some very tough decisions against an unknown. Why bother now for a marginal hand, when you're likely to get paid off well by all the monkeys in short order?If we know Villain (and the other caller) to be a fishcake, then calling makes more sense to me. All that said, its not the worst thing, as we can be aware of potential for trouble and chances are Villain is going to be a typical 1/2 slug. Personally, I'm folding to the raise OOP.After the flop its pretty standard.

AK, with all due respect, we NEVER know if the villain is coming along. That's one of the "gambling" parts of poker, IMHO.cMcM, we can smell trouble and get off of a lot of flops if we're a strong post-flop player.I understand what you're saying, but a suited ace rag isn't that hard to get away from.I don't like ace-rag, but we can slow play a flopped ace and stay out of danger.Third .... METAGAME. You just sat down. OPEN THAT MOTHER UP and get the chips flowing a little. As Doyle said, "In order to get action, you have to give action."

[simo_8ball 0]

AK, with all due respect, we NEVER know if the villain is coming along. That's one of the "gambling" parts of poker, IMHO.cMcM, we can smell trouble and get off of a lot of flops if we're a strong post-flop player.I understand what you're saying, but a suited ace rag isn't that hard to get away from.I don't like ace-rag, but we can slow play a flopped ace and stay out of danger.Third .... METAGAME. You just sat down. OPEN THAT MOTHER UP and get the chips flowing a little. As Doyle said, "In order to get action, you have to give action."

If an ace flops, you have no idea where you are, and the pot will be fairly large. When you say you slowplay, does that (in general) mean c/c flop? If so, the pot would likely be over $100, and you would only have $150 left.It's easy to get away from, but only in small pots. Once the pot gets to $45 preflop, you have a problem getting away cheaply if you flop an ace and are behind.