somedude 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Guys, if we don't want the US government to win the war against online gambling, we need to do 2 things.First, keep playing poker online. Don't get scared, tell all your friends the sky is falling and stop playing online.When I first started gambling online in the mid 90's, I had no clue who I was sending my money to. I didn't give a damn either. I'm a gambler, I like to gamble, and the US Government isn't going to stop me. If I have to use epassporte, click2pay, tony's money laundering service or whatever, I don't give a rip, that's what I'm going to use.The second thing we need to do is stay calm and stop the drama. I've never seen so many drama queens as I've seen today. Running around posting how the world is coming to an end is doing nothing to help our cause. There's some weird thing going on with people wanting to be the first to report bad news. I guess they feel like Geraldo on Fox News or something.If you were around in 2001 when Paypal and the credit card companies pulled out....you've been through this. No one had ever even heard of neteller at that time and look how big they became. Someone will take netellers place.The US Government can't stop us from gambling online unless we get scared and stop doing it......just like they want us too.Neteller pulled out. Big damn deal. They said back in October they were going to complain with the US regs. Everyone in the business knew neteller wasn't going to be around.Everything is going to be ok. Stop tard'n out. Link to post Share on other sites
HangukMiguk 8 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 good point...but what happens when the fish start getting frustrated with trying to keep pumping in money and quit trying?then we just have the sharks feeding off the sharks.i literally got frustrated enough last night that i'm done with trying to fund it at this point, and i'm not a fish at all. it's just too frustrating now trying to keep a door open now, and if someone like me finds it too frustrating, all the fish are about to come to the same realization soon. Link to post Share on other sites
ElToasto 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 good point...but what happens when the fish start getting frustrated with trying to keep pumping in money and quit trying?then we just have the sharks feeding off the sharks.i literally got frustrated enough last night that i'm done with trying to fund it at this point, and i'm not a fish at all. it's just too frustrating now trying to keep a door open now, and if someone like me finds it too frustrating, all the fish are about to come to the same realization soon.I have a feeling the trouble you have been having finding another deposit/cahsout route is due to relatively small companies trying to deal w/ abnormally high traffic. Some of the biggest and most popular methods have pulled out (publicly traded) and have opened the door to small, somewhat unknown companies. Give it a few weeks and let them catch up. I'm sure things will go back to business as usual, as it has every other time a threat to online gambling has surfaced. Link to post Share on other sites
erac22 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Continuing to gamble online is great, but there's something more important we can do. BOYCOTT B&M CASINOS. Teh'yre responsible for this. Theyre lobbying the govt to stop online gamblers. Let's hit them where it hurts. No gamblers in casinos=no casino revenue=no tax revenue. It's that simple. If casinos see that they're loss of traffic coincided directly with the drop in online traffic, maybe they're reconsider they're lobbying position. It's all about money. There are way more online gamblers in this country than casino gamblers. Just stop going to casinos. Believe me, this will hit the govt and the lobbyists where it hurts. Someone who has way more time on their hands than me should start a boycott B&M casinos movement. Whose unemployed?erac Link to post Share on other sites
Uppie_ 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 good point...but what happens when the fish start getting frustrated with trying to keep pumping in money and quit trying?then we just have the sharks feeding off the sharks.i literally got frustrated enough last night that i'm done with trying to fund it at this point, and i'm not a fish at all. it's just too frustrating now trying to keep a door open now, and if someone like me finds it too frustrating, all the fish are about to come to the same realization soon.lots of fish think there sharks, others are degenerate gamblers who will still play and some of fish will be gone but most of them will be gone anyway as they get frustrated and can't win and stop playing or blame the software instead of there poor poker skills. you have to remember as dutch boyd said poker is a lot like sex everyone thinks there good at just very few actually are. If people didn't think they were any good or had a chance to win why would they play? Most fish(poker players) are dellisounal(sp) and can't blame themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
HangukMiguk 8 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Continuing to gamble online is great, but there's something more important we can do. BOYCOTT B&M CASINOS. Teh'yre responsible for this. Theyre lobbying the govt to stop online gamblers. Let's hit them where it hurts. No gamblers in casinos=no casino revenue=no tax revenue. It's that simple. If casinos see that they're loss of traffic coincided directly with the drop in online traffic, maybe they're reconsider they're lobbying position. It's all about money. There are way more online gamblers in this country than casino gamblers. Just stop going to casinos. Believe me, this will hit the govt and the lobbyists where it hurts. Someone who has way more time on their hands than me should start a boycott B&M casinos movement. Whose unemployed?eracThat's easy for Joe Poker to do. That's not so easy for the slot machine grandma who thinks that's the only way to gamble. We can boycott but that won't empty the casinos. They wouldn't know we weren't there save the decrease in dealer abuse.On top of that, not every B&M casino opposed online gambling. Remember that the money from Frist's election campaign came from Harrah's. If you want to start boycotting casinos, boycott Harrah's AINEC. Don't hurt places like Foxwoods and etc. who had nothing to do with the BS lobbying Harrah's did. Link to post Share on other sites
erac22 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 That's easy for Joe Poker to do. That's not so easy for the slot machine grandma who thinks that's the only way to gamble. We can boycott but that won't empty the casinos. They wouldn't know we weren't there save the decrease in dealer abuse.On top of that, not every B&M casino opposed online gambling. Remember that the money from Frist's election campaign came from Harrah's. If you want to start boycotting casinos, boycott Harrah's AINEC. Don't hurt places like Foxwoods and etc. who had nothing to do with the BS lobbying Harrah's did.slot machine playing grandmas don't play online anyway. There are something like 50 million americans who place wagers online. If none of them play in casinos, the casinos will be hurt. And f-ck foxwoods, if they saw volum e down post online gambling, maybe they'd start lobbying on our side.***if you play an online qualifier for the wsop, or go to the wsop and buy their 19 dollar hot dogs or pay they're 15 percent juice on tournies, f.cuk you. That is all. Don't support these a.ssholes. Link to post Share on other sites
Uppie_ 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 sixty minutes did a report on that, and actually a lot of casino's vegas strip casino's have online software ready to launch they just never have because of uncertain legal issues. Plus would you rather gamble at golden place.com or belligo.com where can earn all the same comps as if you were playing in the vegas casnio + all the online like comps? + the instant creditablity for secureity and trust that would go along with a strip casino having a gaming site would crush these off shore gaming sites in short time. Why they don't push for something more along regulation is beyond me. Link to post Share on other sites
qyayqi 11 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Dear <poker site>:The current state of online poker in the United States is of much concern to all poker players. There appears to be no attempt by your site (or any of the other poker sites) to fight back against the obvious lobbying efforts of traditional casinos & right-religious groups to shut down your business.You need to be alot more pro-active in these dangerous times. Sitting back and knee-jerk reacting to bad news piled upon bad news is turning your e-business into e-rubble. The politics of fear seem to have made everyone afraid to use their brains to arrive at better solutions than just closing off American access.The root problem has to do with fundamental human greed. If the other side is lobbying (read:bribing) the government while you try to play by the rule of law, you're going to find yourself dead in the water. The laws are being re-written as I type. The other side is protecting their financial interests by destroying yours.Yes, I'm sure it has been a great ride for your company. You have a world-wide client base from which to derive profits from sometimes-ridiculous amounts of rake. If you HAVE to charge that much, why are there so many rakeback sites? Rather than just shutting down in the face of adversity, be creative! Approach individual US states with a specialized rake-back deal, say 3% of all rake from players in their state is returned to that state. If you can block Washington state, you obviously have the means to track where a player is logging in from. Use this as leverage. Government wants its pound of flesh. If you get individual states to legalize online gambling on sites where the rake tax is implemented, you'll have done an end-around past the federal lobbying efforts of the other team.I can even understand to an extent the why of the governmental backlash. An economy isn't a bottomless pit of money. It is a finite amount, and watching thousands of dollars disappear into an offshore company has an impact on local businesses.You have to stand up and become good corporate citizens. The free ride is over. The other choice is to close your doors and say to yourselves, "Well, it was a helluva run, but if we can't have it all then we want nothing." Link to post Share on other sites
seemorenuts 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Though this won't solve many of the problems, it is worth thinking about.I don't want to endorse the site worldpx.com specifically, but we should support rakefree sites IFF they are financially on solid footing. I realize if you went there today you might grumble about the low population of 400 players...If you are a positive EV player, and you are at a rake free site, you probably could deposit 100 bucks and never have to deposit again... or at least not as often.I'm personally fed up with the b&m casinos because of the poor dealing and the rake, I figure I must have paid them 10K in rake which is not much but it still makes me sick.FCP was great since you could find overlays, and I still can find them at raked online sites now... If we all supported rake free site(s) ... man, in a few years, can you imagine how the scene would have changed? Link to post Share on other sites
HangukMiguk 8 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 slot machine playing grandmas don't play online anyway. There are something like 50 million americans who place wagers online. If none of them play in casinos, the casinos will be hurt.there's a ton of games that people won't play online. roulette, craps come to mind. honestly, if poker players and sportsbetters boycotted casinos, there would be only a small dip in revenue. throw in blackjack players, and you might start to harm the casino. but they will still turn a profit every month guaranteed.a boycott will do nothing, and saying "screw all B&Ms" is just retarded. Target the problem, not the bystanders. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 there's a ton of games that people won't play online. roulette, craps come to mind. honestly, if poker players and sportsbetters boycotted casinos, there would be only a small dip in revenue. throw in blackjack players, and you might start to harm the casino. but they will still turn a profit every month guaranteed.a boycott will do nothing, and saying "screw all B&Ms" is just retarded. Target the problem, not the bystanders.Even taking away all blackjack players won't do much. In most casinos, 85-90% of their profits come from slot machines. So if you can get the 85 year old grandmas away from the nickel slots, then maybe it could work. Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I can even understand to an extent the why of the governmental backlash. An economy isn't a bottomless pit of money. It is a finite amount, and watching thousands of dollars disappear into an offshore company has an impact on local businesses.The idea that the economy is a zero-sum game is such a prevalent falsehood that I have to address this. This myth is the source of most, if not all, bad economic regulations, and I'm sure it plays a part in this persecution of online poker. Please do not promote this myth.Economies are not zero-sum games. They grow through trade. A trade, even with an overseas company, improves the economy on both ends of the trade. Money for products or services is a trade. Link to post Share on other sites
ilovejulie 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 The idea that the economy is a zero-sum game is such a prevalent falsehood that I have to address this. This myth is the source of most, if not all, bad economic regulations, and I'm sure it plays a part in this persecution of online poker. Please do not promote this myth.Economies are not zero-sum games. They grow through trade. A trade, even with an overseas company, improves the economy on both ends of the trade. Money for products or services is a trade.hblask is 100% correct, and further evidence of why basic economics training should be part of any school curriculum. That is all. Link to post Share on other sites
HangukMiguk 8 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Even taking away all blackjack players won't do much. In most casinos, 85-90% of their profits come from slot machines. So if you can get the 85 year old grandmas away from the nickel slots, then maybe it could work.exactly my original point. someone else gets where i'm coming from. Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 recent deposit/withdrawal developments....fyi...Archived Hourly UpdatesUpdated Thursday Jan. 1811:38pm - Absolute Poker has verified that InstaDebit and Nexum are officially abandoning the US market.9:50pm - Using my feeble brain to put two and two together it seems like Instadebit is going to start a specific state wide ban (possibly the 11 states some gambling sites don't accept). Meanwhile Poker Stars and Full Tilt are pushing very hard for their players to use ePassporte.7:53pm - Michael Bolcerek of the Poker Players Alliance made a statement about the Neteller fiasco at pokerplayersalliance.wordpress.com. It seems the reason for the arrests were due to illegal sports betting transactions. Here is a direct quote.“The district court concluded that the Wire Act concerns gambling on sporting events or contests and that the Plaintiffs had failed to allege that they had engaged in internet sports gambling.”7:27pm - This is what Instadebit support just stated over the phone."We are having problems with certain states. Some states won't be able to use our services as of right now. We don't know which states are being affected but hope to have it all sorted out shortly."7:08pm - Poker sites are now adding Western Union and Wire transfer capabilities. Poker Stars has always allowed Western Union and Bodog.com just added Wire transfer and Western Union to their deposit menu today. Full Tilt Poker has not yet added Western Union or WT. I give Western Union two thumbs down for fees. 6:00pm - According to the latest rumor/news Instadebit will be shutting down to US players. Support says it's business as usual but we all know how "In the know" they are.3:07pm - Poker sites are now directing their players to ePassporte and Click2pay for ewallet providers. These two sites are about to get huge and as many of you have experienced, their servers are crashing due to visitor overload. Very interesting times right now.source:http://www.compatiblepoker.com/usa.php Link to post Share on other sites
Flushgarden 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 PokerStars Support:Hello Daniel,Thank you for your email. Due to recent events, we are unable to offer NETeller, Instant eChecks or Central Coin to our players from the United States at this time. To read some Frequently Asked Questions about the NETeller situation regarding US players, please see our webpage:http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/real-money/usplayerfaq/We are working on providing various other deposit and withdrawal methods to our customers, but it may be some time before any other methods become available.At this time, US customers can deposit using ePassporte. The ePassporte Virtual Visa is a pre-paid, re-loadable Visa that can be used online anywhere Visa is accepted.For more information on ePassporte, please visit our web page:http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/real-money/epassporte/To initiate a deposit (and create an ePassporte account), please visit the Cashier window and click on the ePassporte icon.Once you have made a successful ePassporte deposit, you will also be able to cashout using that method.At this time, the only other regular cashout method available to US customers is by check. The minimum cashout by check is currently $50. All checks over $1000 are sent by courier; smaller checks are sent by regular mail, but can be sent by courier if you pay a $25 fee.We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience of this situation. We always strive to provide our customers with the best possible service, but these limitations are not something we can control. We will do our best to provide other options in the future. When there is news to report, it will be posted on our website and in our News bulletins.As always, we thank you for your understanding, and thank you for playing on PokerStars.Regards,ManfredPokerStars Support Team Link to post Share on other sites
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