astros11ss 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 umm not me. and i also have to disagree that it was not unlucky he got caught. that is just crazy logic. what he was doing was wrong if he wasnt breaking the rules nothing would of happened to him. so it is not unlucky that he got caught if any luck is involved then EVERYONE he was playing against is lucky that a site caught his unethical and rule breaking acts cause if not he would still be scamming his way to online tourney wins.it's funny how when i said "everyone" people just immediately assumed that i meant every single online player, you included, was multi-accounting. i wasn't doing it either, i didn't even know it was possible, but jesus have you guys ever heard of hyperbole? from what i've heard and as far as i can tell, a ton of the ranked players on pocketfives were multi-accounting and i'm sure with all the egotistical ties with the rankings and such he felt an obligation to do it as well. croc, if 100 people are doing something, you included, and you are the one that gets caught, would you not argue that you are unlucky? obviously you are in the wrong for doing it, but not being able to fade a 1/100 long shot is pretty unlucky imo. i'm done with this thread now, i thoroughly enjoyed debating with you hoosier and i thoroughly enjoyed pondering these concepts of ego, arrogance, confidence, and "being the best." i don't think i was fully able to convey my full thoughts on what i mean about being confident and arrogant, since i seemed to imply that thinking that includes thinking you know everything and stopping trying to improve. zeejustin owns though, flat out, GL ALL Link to post Share on other sites
Shimmering Wang 1 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 it's funny how when i said "everyone" people just immediately assumed that i meant every single online player, you included, was multi-accounting. i wasn't doing it either, i didn't even know it was possible, but jesus have you guys ever heard of hyperbole? from what i've heard and as far as i can tell, a ton of the ranked players on pocketfives were multi-accounting and i'm sure with all the egotistical ties with the rankings and such he felt an obligation to do it as well. croc, if 100 people are doing something, you included, and you are the one that gets caught, would you not argue that you are unlucky? obviously you are in the wrong for doing it, but not being able to fade a 1/100 long shot is pretty unlucky imo. i'm done with this thread now, i thoroughly enjoyed debating with you hoosier and i thoroughly enjoyed pondering these concepts of ego, arrogance, confidence, and "being the best." zeejustin owns though, flat out.Yeah. I would actually BE unlucky. But what people are failing to understand is that is competely irrelevant. It comes off as- purely, simply- WHINING when your reaction to getting caught doing something YOU KNOW is wrong is: "Well, other people are doing it too" (pouty face, pouty face) "I just got unlucky that I got caught."So? What does it matter? Don't be a little girl.Wang Link to post Share on other sites
Kurtman213 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 ZeeJustin takes wayyy too much ragging for what he did, it was funny for about a month but after that it was all played out, he payed a price and lost his dignity and everyone deserves 2nd chances. I truthfully wouldn't doubt that many big name pro's have Multi-accounted tourneys. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 croc, if 100 people are doing something, you included, and you are the one that gets caught, would you not argue that you are unlucky? obviously you are in the wrong for doing it, but not being able to fade a 1/100 long shot is pretty unlucky imo.how many people download music or tv shows illegally from the internet for their own personal non profit use? millions? hundreds of millions?how many people have had their door knocked down by the FBI because of it? couple hundred?call it unlucky to be in that 1% of 1% of 1% but the fact is its still wrong and just because you dont get caught doesnt make you any more lucky then those that do. I realize this is the same thing you are saying, but 'playing odds' on something that you know is illegal is assinine Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 , i thoroughly enjoyed debating with you hoosier and i thoroughly enjoyed pondering these concepts of ego, arrogance, confidence, and "being the best."Dont stop I have the flu and am bored in bed I cant do anything else but post on internet forums right now... Link to post Share on other sites
crocd99 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 it's funny how when i said "everyone" people just immediately assumed that i meant every single online player, you included, was multi-accounting. i wasn't doing it either, i didn't even know it was possible, but jesus have you guys ever heard of hyperbole? from what i've heard and as far as i can tell, a ton of the ranked players on pocketfives were multi-accounting and i'm sure with all the egotistical ties with the rankings and such he felt an obligation to do it as well. croc, if 100 people are doing something, you included, and you are the one that gets caught, would you not argue that you are unlucky? obviously you are in the wrong for doing it, but not being able to fade a 1/100 long shot is pretty unlucky imo. i'm done with this thread now, i thoroughly enjoyed debating with you hoosier and i thoroughly enjoyed pondering these concepts of ego, arrogance, confidence, and "being the best." i don't think i was fully able to convey my full thoughts on what i mean about being confident and arrogant, since i seemed to imply that thinking that includes thinking you know everything and stopping trying to improve. zeejustin owns though, flat out, GL ALLi know you are done with the thread but just wanted to say ok i see what you mean now. when you said everyone i was pretty shocked thinking you meant that it was an accepted practice by all players including yourself. so i will take that statement back and sorry for thinking that i should of know better. and i do see where you are coming from about the unlucky stuff but i just cant agree there well anyway i am probably done with this thread too. ZJ great accomplishment but one of the best alltime i dont think so Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 well anyway i am probably done with this thread too. ZJ great accomplishment but one of the best alltime i dont think soLol Dave I dont think anyone said he was one of the best of alltime. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 if your point is "it's fine if he believes all this but he shouldn't be blogging about it" then i somewhat agree with you, although what is a blog for if not to write down your thoughts regardless of what they may be... since so many people follow his blog maybe it would have been a better idea not to write about how he thinks he's one of the best in the world, but if he believes it, more power to him, he's an absolute sicko for the 5 diamond and no one can take that away from him Ya thats pretty much what Ive been saying. Link to post Share on other sites
kennyg1966 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 Ya thats pretty much what Ive been saying. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Link to post Share on other sites
crocd99 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Lol Dave I dont think anyone said he was one of the best of alltime.well **** i just suck lol. i think i have enhaled to much paint while doing the kitchen... thats probably why i am a posting donk today Link to post Share on other sites
CoopDaddy1 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 You guys do realize that the GRINDER has admitted to doing the EXACT SAME THING that ZeeJustin has been persecuted for, right?The GRINDER is now player of the year and everyone loves him......and ZeeJustin is still being raked over the coals.If you're going to hate on ZJ, then you have to feel the same way about Mizrachi.Both are great players, both made a mistake... Link to post Share on other sites
socalpoker_j 1 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Is this the article you referenced Hoosier? This one is by MuddyWaters from Cardrunners:Lately, I have had several successful MTT players tell me that no matter what they do, they cannot seem to successfully make the transition from MTTs to cash games. In my discussions with them I have noticed, among other things, two major flaws in their attitudes towards poker. In addition, I recalled when I made the transition to cash games and it dawned on me that the same two problems plagued me. These two issues are one?s poker ego and a failure to effectively control emotions while playing.Poker is a game that tends to foster large egos. At times, it is okay to have a big ego, but more often than not it will hurt one in their quest to be successful. I believe there are several reasons why large egos can affect one?s play. First and most important, it can hinder one from learning as much as they should. I?ve noticed that when certain player?s plays are critiqued, rather than absorbing the information being presented, they defend their plays. I think this is an immense mistake. Of course, this doesn?t necessarily always apply, but the underlying concept is valid regardless. It is extremely important to understand how others treat certain situations and why. At minimum, understanding the reasoning behind a player?s play can help one grow as a player in the aspect of understanding and reading other players. It can also help one realize better ways to approach different situations. I believe that one of the most important ways to improve as a player is to discuss hands with others, and to do this successfully, one must have an open mind. Another problem that large egos can cause is forcing players to believe that they can compete and win at a higher level than they really can. I think this is especially true for MTT players who want to play cash games. One needs to make many adjustments and put in hard work before winning in cash games is possible. Cash games require many different skills than MTTs and it is vital that one realizes this and adjust accordingly. Furthermore, if a player is successful at a particular level of cash games, that doesn't mean they will be a winning player at a higher level. Certain limits have vast differences in skill level and other aspects, such as higher variance, come into play at higher limits as well. One should use Pokertracker to track all their results so that they can be honest with themselves about their success at each level. It is often true that one can make more at a lower level than at the next higher level. I feel that possibly the biggest difference between cash games and MTT is the fact that one?s emotional state plays a much larger role while playing cash games. Going on tilt is always in issue in MTTs, but at worst one will lose the buyin for the tournament. In cash games, one can lose a significant portion of their bankroll in one session if they let their emotions get the better of themselves. The facet that I feel bothers players the most is dealing with bad beats. The fact of the matter is that one is rarely a large favorite. In many situations one will be a 60% favorite. Furthermore, expect for extreme circumstances, one is likely at best an 80% favorite. This means that in the best case scenario one will lose one out of five times. If one plays several tables at once, they are going to run into that instance often. If a player lets that get the better of them, then they are never going to be able to reach their maximum potential. One must also keep in mind that in the short run you can lose a considerable amount of these hands in a row. That is the nature of variance. The mindset that I use to help me keep control is to always think of the long run. Poker is a long term game. If you consistently get your money in as a favorite, you will win money in the long run. It is that simple. Losing on particular hand to a bad beat means nothing in the long run. In fact, it is a necessity of the game. In the length of a poker career a player is going to take more incredibly tough beats than he or she can imagine, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that one consistently gets their money in as the favorite. This should be a constant thought in one's head during a playing session. Always remember that approximately 40% of your sessions are going to be losing sessions and know that is just a part of the game one plays. The other key idea to grasp is that no one runs worse than anyone else. I hear so many bad beat stories, but I will tell people that I don't feel any sympathy for them. We all run the same in the long run, and as I mentioned, the long run is what you need to focus on. When I hear bad beat stories, I know that the person telling the story is not focusing on the long run. Without the long run mindset I know that player is going to continue to struggle. One needs to convince themselves that no one is more unlucky than anyone else. Of course, one can run badly in the short term, but that is not of concern. Focus on the long run. These ideas likely seem overly simple and redundant. I believe that is part of the reason people don?t understand their importance. Players take these ideas lightly and don't devote enough time to mastering them. Once one appreciates the value of these concepts and works to improve on them, they will be that much closer to being a great poker player. Link to post Share on other sites
navybuttons 15 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 when he goes Broke a few times it will humble him!he has gone broke (numerous times i believe). even when he was one of the dominants at the party 200's in their boom (along with strassa and gigabet) he still could run worse than most think possible and busted a time or two. a little btw, what the hell are you guys debating about? and why? you just keep repeating your opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 You guys do realize that the GRINDER has admitted to doing the EXACT SAME THING that ZeeJustin has been persecuted for, right?The GRINDER is now player of the year and everyone loves him......and ZeeJustin is still being raked over the coals.If you're going to hate on ZJ, then you have to feel the same way about Mizrachi.Both are great players, both made a mistake...Its very annoying how every debate has to go back to ZJ multi-accounting. This thread was about DN and ZJ playing together at 5 diamond, and about "ego" in poker. The multi-account thing is over and done with and has been for a long time. Link to post Share on other sites
Steamed Rice 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 You guys do realize that the GRINDER has admitted to doing the EXACT SAME THING that ZeeJustin has been persecuted for, right?The GRINDER is now player of the year and everyone loves him......and ZeeJustin is still being raked over the coals.If you're going to hate on ZJ, then you have to feel the same way about Mizrachi.Both are great players, both made a mistake...yeah, i realize that barely anyone talks **** about the grindermaybe cuz he could whoop everyone's *** in a fight and ZJ can't Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Always remember that approximately 40% of your sessions are going to be losing sessionsYea, if you're playing the no skill game of limit poker!!! sw Link to post Share on other sites
socalpoker_j 1 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Yea, if you're playing the no skill game of limit poker!!! swI must break you. Link to post Share on other sites
irishguy 14 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 It is an interesting question as to whether or not Justin has earned the right to have an ego or at least to voice it. People generally seem to accept cockiness when it comes from big names like DN and Barry based on the premis of how much they've proven within the poker world. I find it hard to believe that someone like DN wasn't this "confident" years before most of the world knew who he was. In the grand scheme of things Justin has accomplished something already that many poker players never will I think that would likely swell the heads of the best of people it just so happens he's got a blog to express it in. Link to post Share on other sites
spikymarv99 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Alot of perceptions about ZJ is wrong. While I have only met him a few times and wouldn't call him a friend, he is actually a pretty cool person. Yes he has an ego, but good luck finding a successful poker player who doesn't; most just don't flaunt it like he does. People who are still bringing up the ish that went down a long time ago: just seriously let it go. Most big name online players were doing the same thing; they were just smart enough to stop when JJ got caught. BTW: ZJ got the money back from Party (some juicy gossip). ZJ has had a sick run this past month and should be comended. It may be hard to cheer for someone who has been portrayed in a bad light and comes off as arrogant, but there really is no point to continue and belittle him. He is a very good tourny player and I'm sure his recent scores will fund NL cash games for months to come. Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 I won 2 $1 SNGs back to back. I am the greatest player ever. No one can beat me. I'll play anyone for stakes up to $5, and I'll make them look dumb, because I am not dumb, but smart, and being smart makes me an awesome player. Link to post Share on other sites
msals11 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Seriously, I get so tired of the nonstop ZeeJustin hate on every forum. Yes he made a terrible mistake, and cheated every player who played a tourney where he multiaccounted, but he has paid for his mistakes both financially and in the public eye. Regardless of what you think about his ethics, he IS one of the best tournament players in the world, and I have no problem with him being excited after he dominated a whole ****ing series of WPT events. I don't understand what he has to do for people to stop hating on him, honestly I don't think anything he can do will change some people's opinions.i dont think you can make this statement quite yet bud.... while he may have had a great series, it was such a small sample size, and also did not even win a tournament. part of being a great tournament player is having a solid end game, and who knows, maybe that is something he is lacking right now, being that he had 4 legitimate shots at a win and came up empty Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 i dont think you can make this statement quite yet bud.... while he may have had a great series, it was such a small sample size, and also did not even win a tournament. part of being a great tournament player is having a solid end game, and who knows, maybe that is something he is lacking right now, being that he had 4 legitimate shots at a win and came up emptyTop 10? No. Top 100 or so I believe yes. He was clearly one of the best online MTT players, and I'm sure he will be successful live. Link to post Share on other sites
getarealjob 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 meh.He's a no limit specialist. Best no limit tournament specialist in the world? hahahaha, someday, maybe you can say that...He's clearly good at no limit tournaments, but he has a long way until he deserves to call himself anything at this point, aside from a talented young professional with a bright future ahead of him who played a dirty online game at one point in his career. Link to post Share on other sites
msals11 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Top 10? No. Top 100 or so I believe yes. He was clearly one of the best online MTT players, and I'm sure he will be successful live.i dunno, i just can't see giving him a ranking like that without seeing how he performs over a good stretch of time... top 10 no, top 100 is more reasonable Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now