Overplayed Ak Or Unlucky Bad Beat?

[JoblessBast 0]

$100-$300 buy in, $2-$5 blinds, NLHE, Hustler Casino.I had created a tight image for myself after a few hours. However, the villain in this hand was more new to the table than most other players. Both of us had nearly equal stacks, about $260.I'm in the small blind with A K . Someone had put the straddle on making it $10 to go, villain calls, two others call and it's on me. I raise it up to $60, which is a bigger-than-normal PF raise even if it had come from one of the looser players at the table (normal preflop raises were to $20 without limpers; maybe up to $35 with a couple limpers). Being out of position I would've been content picking up the straddle calls. BB folds, guy who straddled folds, villain calls, one other guy calls.Flop comes 8 A 6 . I shove all in, about $200. My reasoning for doing this is: partly because this was going to be the last hand of the night for me, and I would've been happy to take the pot right there; partly because I had TPTK; and partly because pot odds meant nothing on this table...draws were chased at any price. So if someone was going to chase a straight or try to make their set, it was going to cost them.Anyway, pretty quick after I shoved in, villain calls, other guy folds. Turn is Q and the river is a blank. I flip over my hand, villain flips over A 6 for two pair on the flop, and I didn't improve.Was my all in only going to get called if I was beat? Should I have bet less to see where I was? What if I do and he raises?

[krup24 0]

before Zach gets a hold of you, remove results. i think you played the hand well.

[Zach6668 513]

before Zach gets a hold of you, remove results. i think you played the hand well.

Hi. Too late. :PBut yeah, results affect our objective analysis.Anyways. Pot is what, like $150ish on the flop?I don't know if I like the push. How often does it get called by a worse hand? Does JJ call there thinking that you wouldn't push if you hit the ace?I think I prefer betting something more for value. I really don't think we will end up with less than our entire stack in this pot at any time though, mind out.I would probably lead for $100 and hope to get calls from some pairs, or even draws, not getting the right price, although I doubt he's on a draw. At that point, obviously we are committed if villain pushes, but I'd like to give him a better chance to call with something we beat instead of limiting his calling range to 2 pair, trips, etc, that smoke us.

[JoblessBast 0]

But yeah, results affect our objective analysis.

Oops. Lesson learned.

but I'd like to give him a better chance to call with something we beat instead of limiting his calling range to 2 pair, trips, etc, that smoke us.

That's interesting, I will remember that for a similar situation.What are your (or anyone's) thoughts on him calling the large PF raise with A6s?

[mtdesmoines 3]

Hi. Too late. :PBut yeah, results affect our objective analysis.Anyways. Pot is what, like $150ish on the flop?I don't know if I like the push. How often does it get called by a worse hand? Does JJ call there thinking that you wouldn't push if you hit the ace?I think I prefer betting something more for value. I really don't think we will end up with less than our entire stack in this pot at any time though, mind out.I would probably lead for $100 and hope to get calls from some pairs, or even draws, not getting the right price, although I doubt he's on a draw. At that point, obviously we are committed if villain pushes, but I'd like to give him a better chance to call with something we beat instead of limiting his calling range to 2 pair, trips, etc, that smoke us.

I check or push.

[Zach6668 513]

I check or push.

Not sayin it's wrong, but I don't understand, or maybe I overestimate the skill in a live NL game.Why would we make a bet where we are only going to be call by a hand that beats us?This board is NOT draw heavy. As a matter of fact, I'd argue that 79 and 57 are in play maybe < 1% of the time.Why do we want to fold hands that we beat? I don't get it!Explain to my why you would push, and we can discuss it from there.

[JoblessBast 0]

Let's say you don't push. Are we destined to lose most if not all of it anyway here? If we check or value bet and the other guy goes all in, like you said, I think we're pot committed. Or would you be able to lay down the AK there?I was mostly surprised that the guy stayed in the hand with A6 after the large preflop raise, but it was suited and must have looked too pretty. At that point I'm kind of thinking that with that flop I'm doomed, unless we check it down. Sounds like you agree too on that point.There's actually two conversations here. Since I posted the results (shame) I was mostly concerned about whether I was going to lose it all after the flop or if I could've done something different to avoid that. But what it sounds like is more important is having a reason behind my action on the flop. Maybe pushing does seem pointless without a flush draw on the flop. 79s and 57s were a bit more probable than <1% at this table but still unlikely.

[simo_8ball 0]

With a pot that big on the flop there is no way to avoid going broke with TPTK.

[TareqB 0]

If I were in your position, I would not have moved in. You are out of position and you have no idea where the other two are at. It seems likely that one of the other two guys might have A-8s or A-6s. There is a straight draw, but what are the chances of someone calling your raise with 7-5, or 7-9? Not too likely I think. So, the best you could hope for is someone with a lower kicker than yours. Remember it is also posible someone flopped a set. If I was in your position, I will make a small tester bet. Maybe half the pot size or even less. If I get raised, just call, and look at the next card. If called, maybe someone is setting a trap, so then check/move in on the turn. I think you played it way too aggressively on the flop, out of position.Tareq

[David_Nicoson 1]

You're effectively playing a 5/10 game with the straddle, which makes your stack 26bb. I think you should be willing to go down to felt with your hand regardless of the action, but I don't think you need to let your opponent know that on the flop. Bet out 75 or so and give him a chance to make a play with a weaker hand.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I'm in the small blind with A K . Someone had put the straddle on making it $10 to go, villain calls, two others call and it's on me. I raise it up to $60, which is a bigger-than-normal PF raise even if it had come from one of the looser players at the table (normal preflop raises were to $20 without limpers; maybe up to $35 with a couple limpers). Being out of position I would've been content picking up the straddle calls.

I'd like to point out that your preflop raise is actually under the pot size. There's 55 in the pot after your call. A pot size raise is to 10+55 = 65. You wouldn't be out of line betting up to 100 if you're happy to win the pot preflop.You didn't get your money in particularly bad on the flop.There's 165 in the pot preflop. You traded $200 for 26.8% equity in a $565 pot or $151. In other words, even if you saw your opponents cards on the flop you'd still be making only a $49 mistake by stacking off.

[TraptSteve 0]

You're effectively playing a 5/10 game with the straddle, which makes your stack 26bb. I think you should be willing to go down to felt with your hand regardless of the action, but I don't think you need to let your opponent know that on the flop. Bet out 75 or so and give him a chance to make a play with a weaker hand.

I agree. this line allows you to make a decision if there is more action on the flop from the other two, and allows you to get your money in on the turn as the overwhelming favourite against any draw/weaker ace.

[iggymcfly 0]

Nah, the push is the right play here. OP played it correctly. It has nothing to do with worrying about some stupid open-ender getting there. If we bet $100 or something, we're making it obvious that we want a call whereas if we push, it's a little more ambiguous. I think the range that calls us is almost the same either way (any ace that's willing to call PF will call after it hits), but if there was a marginal hand that was undecided, I think they'd be more likely to call the push than the suck bet.

[David_Nicoson 1]

How do you play if your hand is TT instead of AK?

[Zach6668 513]

I still think push is stupid, and no one has done a good job of convincing me otherwise.

[JoblessBast 0]

How do you play if your hand is TT instead of AK?

Assuming I raised preflop or just in general?On the other side, would a hand like TT or JJ call a $75-$100 bet on this flop, if their stack is now $200? The person who would is going to call $200, no?(Also, SB=$2, BB=$5, Straddler=$10, 3 limpers=$30; total pot before my preflop action=$47, not $55. However, I agree a bigger preflop raise would've been in order being out of position and happy taking it down preflop.)

[David_Nicoson 1]

Assuming I raised preflop or just in general?

Assume all the same action up until your push.

On the other side, would a hand like TT or JJ call a $75-$100 bet on this flop, if their stack is now $200? The person who would is going to call $200, no?

I was thinking more of a player with a small pocket pair who believes he's beat but raises as a bluff.

(Also, SB=$2, BB=$5, Straddler=$10, 3 limpers=$30; total pot before my preflop action=$47, not $55.

For this purpose, the size of the pot includes the amount you would have to call. That's the way it works in pot-limit games when it's the maximum bet. You're right that I left out the SB. Call it rake or laziness.

[David_Nicoson 1]

How do you play if your hand is TT instead of AK?

Answering myself, I probably want to continuation bet with TT but I probably find a fold if I find strong resistance. I'd like for that continuation bet to represent a hand as good as AK to my opponent so he'll fold his JJ. But it won't if I push with AK.I may be giving my opponent too much credit for collecting this information. You'll have to gauge your situation.

[caribstv 0]

$100-$300 buy in, $2-$5 blinds, NLHE, Hustler Casino.I had created a tight image for myself after a few hours. However, the villain in this hand was more new to the table than most other players. Both of us had nearly equal stacks, about $260.I'm in the small blind with A K . Someone had put the straddle on making it $10 to go, villain calls, two others call and it's on me. I raise it up to $60, which is a bigger-than-normal PF raise even if it had come from one of the looser players at the table (normal preflop raises were to $20 without limpers; maybe up to $35 with a couple limpers). Being out of position I would've been content picking up the straddle calls. BB folds, guy who straddled folds, villain calls, one other guy calls.Flop comes 8 A 6 . I shove all in, about $200. My reasoning for doing this is: partly because this was going to be the last hand of the night for me, and I would've been happy to take the pot right there; partly because I had TPTK; and partly because pot odds meant nothing on this table...draws were chased at any price. So if someone was going to chase a straight or try to make their set, it was going to cost them.Anyway, pretty quick after I shoved in, villain calls, other guy folds. Turn is Q and the river is a blank. I flip over my hand, villain flips over A 6 for two pair on the flop, and I didn't improve.Was my all in only going to get called if I was beat? Should I have bet less to see where I was? What if I do and he raises?

Just unlucky... supprised he called $60 preflop with those holdings.How was he playing before this hand came up??

[Royal_Tour 0]

Just unlucky... supprised he called $60 preflop with those holdings.How was he playing before this hand came up??

Ok, Preflop, with the straddle and limps, I like the raisethe open push on the flop is a OK (but very risky play to take the pot) You have FIV, Its a good size pot.however like zach said, we are only getting called by hands that beat us. There was no raise, i think its safe to eliminate another big ace.what was the point of having TPTK is you're just goin to open push your whole stack and hope no one has anything?The idea of playing 2-5NL with a 300 max is also stupid. did u buy in for the full 300 prior to this?

[Shizant 0]

The idea of playing 2-5NL with a 300 max is also stupid.?

Why? I'm a regular at the Hustler $2-$5 game and the $300 max is something I really enjoy about their game. The fact that once you've built a stack no one can sit down and directly compete with your stack is great. I always buy in for $300.JoblessBast: Did this hand take place last night?

[David_Nicoson 1]

Why? I'm a regular at the Hustler $2-$5 game and the $300 max is something I really enjoy about their game. The fact that once you've built a stack no one can sit down and directly compete with your stack is great. I always buy in for $300.

We don't like it because we can't sit down directly and win your stack. With limited implied odds, the number of playable hands go ways down. It's boring as **** played correctly.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Why? I'm a regular at the Hustler $2-$5 game and the $300 max is something I really enjoy about their game. The fact that once you've built a stack no one can sit down and directly compete with your stack is great. I always buy in for $300.JoblessBast: Did this hand take place last night?

If you're good, don't you WANT someone being able to sit down with more, rather than less, money? And viceversa when you buyin?Wang

[JoblessBast 0]

Shizant: The hand took place the day before my OP.caribstv: I was surprised as well. He was fairly new to the table so I didn't have a great line on him.Royal Tour: Yes I bought in for the full 300. If this game is stupid, what do you suggest? There's a 1-2NL game with a 50 max, which is a crapshoot.I think I agree that although I wasn't getting away from this hand, the push was semi-pointless because I'm probably only getting called with hands that beat me. The push might get a call from a weaker hand by making it ambiguous, but a smaller bet is probably more likely to get a call from a weaker hand. I think I let some external factors distract me from the hand, like the fact that it was going to be my final hand of the night regardless, and that I had grown restless after being at the table for a while without much result. Not smart but you live and learn.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

Would anybody just push preflop here? I think I would, unless I had some reason to suspect somebody was trapping with AA or KK. I like pushing a lot better than raising smaller and getting called by a pocket pair. (If I expected my opponents to call a raise to 60 with A-rag, then the smaller raise is probably better, but I'd expect that usually, the smaller raise is only getting called by pocket pairs, which is not what I'd want to be OOP against with AK).As played, on the flop, I don't see how you could ever find a fold after that flop. I'm tempted to make a "feeler" bet of $60-$80 (unless the opponents are very aggessive and are likely to bet for you if you check). A smallish bet will likely be called or raised by any A (and virtually pot-commit them), and might induce a curiosity call or even a raise hands like pocket pairs.