One Mistake Difference Between Bubbling And Ft

[The Phoenix 0]

This hand was from the 10k GTD rebuy on Stars earlier today. I've played this tourney about 10-15 times since my move over to Pstars, and finished in the top 60 5 times. So close to final tabling and getting to the real payouts, but haven't cleared that hurdle yet.I think this hand may have cost me a final table. I played it so badly. I'm posting it because it goes to show getting involved in one hand you shouldn't or not picking your spots better can cost you in the long-run. I ended up doubling up twice in a matter of 30 minutes after this hand, but had I not blown 28k in chips on this hand I would have been in the top 10 in chips as opposed to 15-20 and would have been better able to withstand going card dead for a longer period of time.At the time I believe I stood 30th with about 120 left. I had just been moved to the table, it was my 2nd or 3rd hand at the table. That's why I think I should have folded the hand, no reads yet, playing a marginal hand out of the BB. Reason#2 for folding is that he had me slightly covered. No reason for me to get involved (seeing a flop is fine but only proceeding if you hit it big), but for some reason I decided I wanted to show that I would defend my blind.Here is the hand:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t4000 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero (t77712)UTG (t36973)UTG+1 (t69394)MP1 (t24294)MP2 (t74398)CO (t201617)Button (t85420)SB (t55204)Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 , T . 5 folds, Button raises to t12000, 1 fold, Hero calls t8000.Flop: (t21400) 5 , T , J (2 players)Hero is first to act. His action should be what?I've given this hand a lot of thought and I like folding preflop just because I have no reads. However, I think I would have won this hand had I played it correctly. I now think I know how I should have played the hand. We'll see if you guys affirm that. This hand was the only I felt I misplayed the whole tournament. I played great, built a stack, protected it well keeping myself in a position to win except for this one misplay. I threw away valuable chips that would have allowed me to completely stack a guy(for his whole 160k instead of just the 84 k I had) when his button AK ran into my sb KK. The way I figure it, I could have built my stack to about 300k in chips as opposed to 200k. That is a big difference, possibly the difference from top 20ish and top 5. Sorry about the rambling, just a little frustrated with myself.

[XXEddie 0]

if Villian is liking to throw a CB out there, I might check/push. I dont like leading because that just looks weak and he might figure were stealing and push back. And I dont have a problem with pushing allin here, but calling allin is different

[gobears 0]

I would either raise or fold here as your M>10 which doesn't give you the implied odds to just call with your suited one-gap connector.Any decent raise pot commits you; if you raise to 36K, button is getting 2.3-1 on the call - with the knowledge that you're pot committed, he should put you on a very strong hand. You could also jam but I don't like the risk/reward there - I'd like it better if your stack was smaller.With no reads and with no knowledge of what type of player villain is - I would fold preflop.

[Highlow16 0]

your OOP. I think a reraise preflop would have the right play depending on your read of the player. Youve got the perfect sized stack for a resteal here. after calling your in a tough spot cause he could have you, or he could be c-betting.

[offset 0]

I check call small flop bets (but raise if he bets less than 1/2 the pot) and reevaluate on the turn. If the bet strikes me as weak I obviously check raise. If he bets the pot its a push or fold decision. With no read I push.Folding preflop is terrible. I think pushing preflop is a good option and changes in value based on your current table image as well as what you want your table image to be.

[trystero 0]

I check call small flop bets (but raise if he bets less than 1/2 the pot) and reevaluate on the turn. If the bet strikes me as weak I obviously check raise. If he bets the pot its a push or fold decision. With no read I push.Folding preflop is terrible. I think pushing preflop is a good option and changes in value based on your current table image as well as what you want your table image to be.

Well, I can see the argument for calling or restealing here, but I'm not sure how you can view folding as 'terrible.'Folding TP on a river getting 20:1 is terrible. Folding here, when we've got plenty of chips, is not.

[offset 0]

Well, I can see the argument for calling or restealing here, but I'm not sure how you can view folding as 'terrible.'Folding TP on a river getting 20:1 is terrible. Folding here, when we've got plenty of chips, is not.

I don't see why I need to explain this, but you seem like a nice guy so I will. Calling is sooooooo standard. You are getting over 3.5:1 on a hand that is at least 40% against button's hand range. Folding here is so much worse than calling with 94offsuit. Don't play scared because you are deep into the tournament. That might be why you are not making it to the final table.

[Propaganda 916 0]

I think folding is a very viable option. With an M of just under 10 U need to be very careful what situations you choose to get yourself into. Remember you are just about at the point where you are pushing or folding and you dont want to bleed chips to get that far. T8s is a great candidate for bleeding chips, thats a hand all about implied odds and we don't have a stack for implied odds. I think the decision is completely pre-flop. If we put the guy on a steal we push pre, but like its been said that is a pretty big risk for a reward of about a gain in 3 M points. If we do choose to call pre what flop are we looking for?? It doesnt get anymore marginal than flopping middle pair, we are basically in the exact same situation we were in pre-flop except the pot is juicier and we maybe compelled to try and capture it. With our M and this very speculative hand it is filled with reverse implied odds-we hit marginally, we may committ our whole stack and still be behind. If we miss, which will usually happen we c/f and now we have an M of what?? 7 or 6 crapppp we can find a better spot.

[Briguy 0]

With less than 20 big blinds, I'm on the fence over the preflop call. You don't have the stack to get cute with a marginal flop (such as the one you caught). Betting 20000 on the flop would normally be an option, but if you fold to resistance your preflop 73000 stack suddenly becomes close to desperate at 45000. You should just push on the flop if you intend on continuing, because the button will probably (and should) come over the top of a weaker lead. You are probably ahead on the flop, but may be facing 10 outs. You may also get some J's or a stronger T to fold.I guess the preflop call is ok if you plan to push a flop like this. Otherwise, I'd just resteal all-in or fold preflop.

[trystero 0]

I don't see why I need to explain this, but you seem like a nice guy so I will. Calling is sooooooo standard. You are getting over 3.5:1 on a hand that is at least 40% against button's hand range. Folding here is so much worse than calling with 94offsuit. Don't play scared because you are deep into the tournament. That might be why you are not making it to the final table.

Don't get me wrong. I like restealing here. I like picking up the dead money in the pot due to our FE, and I like our chances against his range if he does call. I like gambling in tournaments before the FT. However.I still don't think folding is terrible. I can understand why a player wouldn't feel comfortable shoving or calling with T8s against someone they've got no reads on. My problem's in the language. When you say something's terrible, you're implying that it's a no-brainer. This, as the dissension shows, is hardly a no-brainer.

[leducks2004 0]

I dont mind a check raise all in. Villain might be trying to steal blinds but if you got no reads hard to say. Another alternative is just check calling a small bet if he throws one out there. You can reevaluate on the turn and have a decent chance of pickin up a straight or club draw.

[Canada 0]

Here is the hand:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t4000 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero (t77712)UTG (t36973)UTG+1 (t69394)MP1 (t24294)MP2 (t74398)CO (t201617)Button (t85420)SB (t55204)Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 , T . 5 folds, Button raises to t12000, 1 fold, Hero calls t8000.Flop: (t21400) 5 , T , J (2 players)

You are getting over 3.5:1 on a hand that is at least 40% against button's hand range.

Has the OP changed the preflop raise figure?18000:8000 is not 3.5:1 but the flop chip total would indicate a preflop min raise to 8000 (not to 12000).If its a min raise I agree calling preflop is standard.

[offset 0]

18000:8000 is not 3.5:1 but the flop chip total would indicate a preflop min raise to 8000 (not to 12000).

It's 3.5:1 including the antes.I realize that some of you are worried about putting chips in without a premium hand once you get deep, but you need to take advantage of every +ev opportunity to win tournaments. Ask any of the very successful tournament players on this forum and they will tell you that the call is standard.

[XXEddie 0]

It's 3.5:1 including the antes.I realize that some of you are worried about putting chips in without a premium hand once you get deep, but you need to take advantage of every +ev opportunity to win tournaments. Ask any of the very successful tournament players on this forum and they will tell you that the call is standard.

ante is 20012k + 2k + 4k +1.6k is 19.6k19.6:8 is less than 2.5-1

[offset 0]

ante is 20012k + 2k + 4k +1.6k is 19.6k19.6:8 is less than 2.5-1

In either case calling is still automatic.

[Balloon guy 158]

I would fold. You are new to the table, with a healthy stack. No reason to mix up with the big stack with a ten high.I see off's point, but I would fold preflop

[gobears 0]

At 2.5 -1, the call would be automatic if there was no further betting after the flop (e.g. if a short stack pushed in and our call closed the action). However, this is not the case.We have to consider stack sizes also plus the fact that we are OOP for the rest of the hand. Also, we need to consider where the bet is coming from (Button vs UTG etc)Deep stacked, I play this hand everytime from the BB with a suited gapped connector which offers excellent implied odds. Here with an M of less than 10, it makes things tougher as any postflop bet along with our call puts 30%-40% of our stack at risk.I don't consider folding terrible here - it's a valid play as well as calling or raising.