Official Offseason Thread

[MDXS 0]

I'm not asking this to you directly, but why are the Red Sox so excited about Drew? He's really not a great hitter, he's good. I haven't seen him play much - is he stellar defensively? If the Sox sign him I would expect either Crisp or Wily Mo to get traded, and actually I would think that Crisp would be more likely to go, with Wily Mo moving to center. Now, if I can suggest something a little crazy: I think the Sox should consider giving Ortiz more playing time at first base, which would allow Wily Mo or Manny to DH a lot of the time, and would allow them to trade Lowell and put Youk at 3B. If Ortiz started 80-100 games at 1B, the Sox could sign Drew and keep WMP and Crisp, with Wily Mo and Manny splitting the extra time at DH.

I think the Sox like Drew because he's a plus defender with a career OPS+ of 133, who will likely be able to play whatever position we stick him in through the life of the contract. He's the best outfielder available, and the Sox need another outfielder.Wily Mo's being dangled as trade bait, but I'd like to see them hang on to him. He certainly doesn't suck as a previous poster suggested. I'd also like to see them hang on to Crisp. He's still very young and was clearly bothered by the broken finger all year. A healthy Crisp could be very productive.The Sox are reluctant to play Ortiz at first. They don't want the big man to get hurt and it's possible that playing the field will detract from his offensive production. I do think Lowell's a likely piece to get moved for some bullpen help. Youk can be moved to third, and they can plug anyone in at first. As far as J.D. Drew is concerned, I've heard both that he's affected by the pressure and the attention, but I've also heard that he didn't get along with his teammates because he was "like a robot." This suggests that maybe he's the ideal player for Boston. I really don't know. He could certainly go either way. I do know that he's got an incredible amount of talent. If he plays up to his ability, he'll be huge in Boston. If not, it could get ugly.

[76clubs 0]

Trade Manny.

[timwakefield 68]

Trade Manny.

The Boston Globe and the rest of the Boston media seems to agree with you, but you're all wrong. He's one of the top hitters in baseball, and I'm willing to put up with him saying he wants out, taking extra days off, and dozing off in LF in exchange for his presence at the plate. Seriously, last season he didn't even get much notice, but he still finished first in the league in OBP, and 2nd in OPS. He's one of the top 3 or 4 hitters of his generation (if not #1), and he has yet to decline. Rated above him MAYBE are Gay-Rod and Vlad and Barry, but Barry cheated. I'm not saying he's the #1 hitter in baseball right now, but over the last 10 to 15 years he's close.

[MDXS 0]

The Boston Globe and the rest of the Boston media seems to agree with you, but you're all wrong.

If nothing else, find out what the Boston media advocates and go the other way. In related news, I heard someone today railing against signing J. D. Drew today because "OPG" is such an overrated stat.

[mcpickl 0]

I'm not asking this to you directly, but why are the Red Sox so excited about Drew? He's really not a great hitter, he's good. I haven't seen him play much - is he stellar defensively? If the Sox sign him I would expect either Crisp or Wily Mo to get traded, and actually I would think that Crisp would be more likely to go, with Wily Mo moving to center. Now, if I can suggest something a little crazy: I think the Sox should consider giving Ortiz more playing time at first base, which would allow Wily Mo or Manny to DH a lot of the time, and would allow them to trade Lowell and put Youk at 3B. If Ortiz started 80-100 games at 1B, the Sox could sign Drew and keep WMP and Crisp, with Wily Mo and Manny splitting the extra time at DH.

Drew walks a ton, OPS is very good(i think top 15 in baseball last 5 years) and is very good OF. Definitely a Red Sox type of player. Statswise anyways.As for crazy idea, it's certainly that. Ortiz has knee problems that wouldn't be helped by him playing the field. Not worth risking his health in any way since he's perfect for the DH role anyways and lineup desperately needs him. I do not get the Wily Mo fascination. He's got plus power and nothing else.Last year: Wily Mo OPS .838 just off his career high of .841Last year: Lowell OPS .836 Last year: Youkilis OPS .830Why Sox fans fascination with getting Wily Mos bat in the lineup with a below average glove in the OF, but want Lowell out of town as quick as possible when he has the same production and premier defense at a much more important position at 3B?Baffling to me.

[timwakefield 68]

Why Sox fans fascination with getting Wily Mos bat in the lineup with a below average glove in the OF, but want Lowell out of town as quick as possible when he has the same production and premier defense at a much more important position at 3B?Baffling to me.

Well for one, Lowell is 32 and Pena is 24. I don't necessarily want Lowell out of town, but I don't know if we can rely on him to have another highly succesful season next year. Also, if he left Youk would probably move back to third, and he can pick it pretty well too.

[oldirtyharry 0]

The Boston Globe and the rest of the Boston media seems to agree with you, but you're all wrong. He's one of the top hitters in baseball, and I'm willing to put up with him saying he wants out, taking extra days off, and dozing off in LF in exchange for his presence at the plate. Seriously, last season he didn't even get much notice, but he still finished first in the league in OBP, and 2nd in OPS. He's one of the top 3 or 4 hitters of his generation (if not #1), and he has yet to decline. Rated above him MAYBE are Gay-Rod and Vlad and Barry, but Barry cheated. I'm not saying he's the #1 hitter in baseball right now, but over the last 10 to 15 years he's close.

I agree completely. Just checked ESPN, Raw stats wise he's second only to Barry. Has Vlad beat in every catagory but BA and Arod beat in everything but hits and runs.

[mcpickl 0]

Well for one, Lowell is 32 and Pena is 24. I don't necessarily want Lowell out of town, but I don't know if we can rely on him to have another highly succesful season next year. Also, if he left Youk would probably move back to third, and he can pick it pretty well too.

age really has nothing to do with next year, we're talking about the 2007 season, not 2012. Youkilis would be a huge defensive downgrade from Lowell at third.Really, huge.

[gobears 0]

Giants have gotten very lucky - they've been outbid by other teams for Pierre, Mathews Jr and Lee.Sabean obviously doesn't believe in using all those new fangled stats; witness his past signings of Matheny and Winn. Looks like he'll be forced to go with Dave Roberts who if he stays healthy will probably be a "bargain" at three years and $5M per year if those numbers are correct. Rumors of Sabean bidding high to keep Hillebrand or Feliz are scaring Giants fans also - as one put it "Hold me, I'm scared"As for the A's - Beane is obviously sitting on his hands and will wait to get a deal on the free agents that end up having no home. Supposedly, he's looking for a Frank Thomas type deal (low base, high on incentives) and Cliff Floyd/Trot Nixon/Mike Piazza have been mentionedBeane over Sabean in a landslide

[greatwhite 0]

This just in: The Yankees won the bidding for the young lefty, Kei Igawa. They are appearently paying the Hanshin Tigers $25 million for the rights to negoiate with him. Hopefully he doesn't suck.

[MDXS 0]

This just in: The Yankees won the bidding for the young lefty, Kei Igawa. They are appearently paying the Hanshin Tigers $25 million for the rights to negoiate with him. Hopefully he doesn't suck.

Do you have a link? The bid is confirmed, but I haven't seen the team confirmed yet.

[greatwhite 0]

Do you have a link? The bid is confirmed, but I haven't seen the team confirmed yet.

No, I heard it on "Mike and the Mad Dog."

[evilturtle 0]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2678036theres the link if you still needed it.

[oldirtyharry 0]

This just in: The Yankees won the bidding for the young lefty, Kei Igawa. They are appearently paying the Hanshin Tigers $25 million for the rights to negoiate with him. Hopefully he doesn't suck.

Yikes, talk about reactionary. 25 millions for this guy is amazing. According to scouting reports i've read: lefty with average fastball, plus change, average slider and projects to be a 4/5 starter.

[oldirtyharry 0]

age really has nothing to do with next year, we're talking about the 2007 season, not 2012. Youkilis would be a huge defensive downgrade from Lowell at third.Really, huge.

I think there are a lot of factors to it. He is a relatively expensive player playing a position that can at least offensively be replaced by a cost controlled player that plays at least average D. Switching Youkilis to 3rd also allows the Sox to put a better bat at a typical big bat position, first base. Lowell will also be 33 years old this year and has 1 more year left on his contract. It's clear the Sox will make no effort to resign him in 2007 so trading him now might be better then letting him walk next year.

[MDXS 0]

Yikes, talk about reactionary. 25 millions for this guy is amazing. According to scouting reports i've read: lefty with average fastball, plus change, average slider and projects to be a 4/5 starter.

Exactly my take. What a ridiculous offseason. Though I hear he's got a minus fastball (84-88) and a plus curve. Lefties hit him pretty hard as well...Why they only posted 7 million more for Daisuke is beyond me.

[mcpickl 0]

I think there are a lot of factors to it. He is a relatively expensive player playing a position that can at least offensively be replaced by a cost controlled player that plays at least average D. Switching Youkilis to 3rd also allows the Sox to put a better bat at a typical big bat position, first base. Lowell will also be 33 years old this year and has 1 more year left on his contract. It's clear the Sox will make no effort to resign him in 2007 so trading him now might be better then letting him walk next year.

I'd agree that downgrading at third from Lowell to Youkilis(which would be quite dramatic) makes sense if Lowell fetched something(end of the bullpen?) that helped a lot elsewhere. But for the exact reasons you listed above for moving him, age, contract status and dollars, you wouldn't think he'd have that much value on the market. So why downgrade defensively at third, and probably first since Youkilis played well there, if you don't get much in return? If somehow they were able to get a premier 1B somewhere else, then losing the D at 3B would be more palatable. The original discussion on this started with people wanting to get Lowell out of the lineup by shifting players around to get Wily Mo Pena more at-bats. That way you'd be getting the same production from Pena that Lowell gives you while downgrading defense at each position affected. Fab idea. Apparently since Lowell had a horrendous year in 2005, its impossible to believe he can repeat 2006 next season. One bad year erases the rest of his career when he's been quite good.

[MDXS 0]

But for the exact reasons you listed above for moving him, age, contract status and dollars, you wouldn't think he'd have that much value on the market. The original discussion on this started with people wanting to get Lowell out of the lineup by shifting players around to get Wily Mo Pena more at-bats. That way you'd be getting the same production from Pena that Lowell gives you while downgrading defense at each position affected. Fab idea. Apparently since Lowell had a horrendous year in 2005, its impossible to believe he can repeat 2006 next season. One bad year erases the rest of his career when he's been quite good.

He's not incredibly old. He's only got a one year deal. It's for 9 million, which in this economic climate is the new 6 million. You're guaranteed gold-glove caliber defense and will probably get a quality bat. He has some value. You move him if the downgrade from him to Youkilis at third is less than the benefit from improving at first or the bullpen or wherever the pieces fit. The short of it is that you move Lowell if you think you can get a better team out of it. I'm not convinced that moving him to get Wily Mo more at bats is the way to go. Wily Mo at first is dubious. Besides, between Manny, Crisp, and likely Drew, they'll be plenty of opportunity for Wily Mo to play. This goes double if Manny gets traded, and it actually looks like it may happen. The most likely scenario has him going to the Dodgers, who would send a reliever (Broxton) and some prospects back. One of those prospects is Loney, a first-baseman. Should that deal get made, Pena's the LF, Loney gets first (?), Youkilis moves back to third, and Lowell is moveable. There's probably too many moveable pieces right now to try to predict what will happen/what should happen.

[kers2 0]

This goes double if Manny gets traded, and it actually looks like it may happen. The most likely scenario has him going to the Dodgers, who would send a reliever (Broxton) and some prospects back. One of those prospects is Loney, a first-baseman. Should that deal get made, Pena's the LF, Loney gets first (?), Youkilis moves back to third, and Lowell is moveable.

I know there are a ton of Sox fans on here, so I want to know what you think about this proposed Dodger deal. As a Dodger fan, I like it with the base being Broxton/Loney, but I dont want the third player to be either Matt Kemp (our top OF prospect), Chad Billingsley or Scott Elbert (our top pitching prospects). I'd be more than happy to give you Andre Ethier or Andy LaRoche (3b) :)I know I'm probably getting greedy here, but what are your thoughts?

[MDXS 0]

I know there are a ton of Sox fans on here, so I want to know what you think about this proposed Dodger deal. As a Dodger fan, I like it with the base being Broxton/Loney, but I dont want the third player to be either Matt Kemp (our top OF prospect), Chad Billingsley or Scott Elbert (our top pitching prospects). I'd be more than happy to give you Andre Ethier or Andy LaRoche (3b) :)I know I'm probably getting greedy here, but what are your thoughts?

Honestly, I haven't taken a close look at the players that are in the rumor from the Dodgers. There are so many offers floating around that I'm planning to wait for something concrete before I evaluate. My feeling at the moment is that because the contract is now reasonable, because he's so productive, and because a number of teams are interested, it's actually going to take a really good package to get Ramirez. Weird considering in past years we literally couldn't give him away. I've heard Peavy's name tossed around in these rumors. It sounds ridiculous, but if that's the caliber of player that's seriously being discussed going to the Sox, then I'm a.) much more on board with dealing Ramirez, and b.) the more likely it is that the Dodgers would have to include one of those top prospects as well.

[kers2 0]

Honestly, I haven't taken a close look at the players that are in the rumor from the Dodgers. There are so many offers floating around that I'm planning to wait for something concrete before I evaluate. My feeling at the moment is that because the contract is now reasonable, because he's so productive, and because a number of teams are interested, it's actually going to take a really good package to get Ramirez. Weird considering in past years we literally couldn't give him away. I've heard Peavy's name tossed around in these rumors. It sounds ridiculous, but if that's the caliber of player that's seriously being discussed going to the Sox, then I'm a.) much more on board with dealing Ramirez, and b.) the more likely it is that the Dodgers would have to include one of those top prospects as well.

Yea the Padres rumor I heard was Peavy and Adrian Gonzalez for Manny straight up. I think I would do that in a heartbeat. Of course, I'm hoping its just a rumor bc a Kemp/Broxton/Loney package would kill me.I know the farm system is really deep, but I dont think Manny puts the Dodgers over the hump without some pitching help

[timwakefield 68]

I don't know much about those Dodgers prospects being tossed around in a potential deal, but i think it's ridiculous that the Sox wanna move Manny. Not only does he offer protection for Ortiz, he is every bit as good as Ortiz, if not better.

[mcpickl 0]

I know there are a ton of Sox fans on here, so I want to know what you think about this proposed Dodger deal. As a Dodger fan, I like it with the base being Broxton/Loney, but I dont want the third player to be either Matt Kemp (our top OF prospect), Chad Billingsley or Scott Elbert (our top pitching prospects). I'd be more than happy to give you Andre Ethier or Andy LaRoche (3b) :)I know I'm probably getting greedy here, but what are your thoughts?

Im a Sox fan and I think Broxton/Loney/Laroche would be too much to give up for LA.If Broxton(i like) and Loney(dont like so much) were two included, a third player i'd imagine would be much further away in A ball as opposed to a Laroche/Kemp. Giving up three major league ready players would be a lot to replace. That being siad, LAs owner has a serious Red Sox crush, hello Nomar, Grady, Billy Mueller, DLowe.....so he may overpay to add Manny to the collection.

[MDXS 0]

I don't know much about those Dodgers prospects being tossed around in a potential deal, but i think it's ridiculous that the Sox wanna move Manny. Not only does he offer protection for Ortiz, he is every bit as good as Ortiz, if not better.

Manny is indeed a special player. I question how important the "protection for Ortiz" thing is. Without Manny in the lineup last year, Ortiz's numbers were actually better. He will walk more, but getting on base is a good thing so long as there are competant hitters behind him. Drew would help. Obviously, he wouldn't make up for Manny's bat being gone, but it's a good start.If say it's Gonzalez and Peavy for Ramirez, you have to do it. A young, cost-controlled #1 starter and a very good 24-year old first baseman would be a sick deal if we could pull it off. And if no money changes hands? Wow. I have trouble believing that could possibly be an option. In that scenario, the Sox would come out ahead and that's what it's all about. I just hope that the Sox's measure for coming out ahead is not too much lower than mine. They seem really eager to move him. I just hope they're only so eager because they believe they can get a whole lot in return for him and not because they can finally find a team willing to take him for 60 cents on the dollar. Should they get Peavy (a longshot, I feel), imagine the rotation in 2-3 years: Matsuzaka, Peavy, Beckett, Papelbon, and Lester all hitting their primes at once, with Bard and Bucholtz about to enter theirs. I'm going to have trouble sleeping now...

[kers2 0]

Im a Sox fan and I think Broxton/Loney/Laroche would be too much to give up for LA.If Broxton(i like) and Loney(dont like so much) were two included, a third player i'd imagine would be much further away in A ball as opposed to a Laroche/Kemp. Giving up three major league ready players would be a lot to replace. That being siad, LAs owner has a serious Red Sox crush, hello Nomar, Grady, Billy Mueller, DLowe.....so he may overpay to add Manny to the collection.

I dont think LaRoche projects to as good a player as Kemp does, or even Loney. Thats why I would include him in a deal if I were the Dodgers. Plus, they have a good enough 3b prospect/player in Betemit that they just traded for last year.Loney is a good prospect, but there have been questions about his power (as a 1b). I think he would flourish at Fenway though, bc he is a lefthanded hitter who can take the ball the other way if necessary. Broxton is the guy I hate to lose the most obviously, because the Dodgers have had problems in their bullpen (and even their rotation is not set, there was talk of Broxton returning to a SP).So, I guess in an ideal world, I could deal with a Broxton+Loney+LaRoche/Ethier package, but would shy away from a Broxton+Loney+Billingsley/Kemp package