Gg Online Poker

[no not baxter 0]

I'm off Monday. Who in the Indianapolis area wants to stage a protest/flag burning at the Capitol?

Come down to Bloomington to pick me up and Im marching...

[Wicked Clown 0]

PM BalloonGuy, I'm sure he'd be up for it

Isn't that already done in the IRS vs. Baxter case?? Where the result was that beacuse poker is not a gambling game or game of luck that the taxes you paid couldn't be gambling taxes but normal income taxes. If i remember the cardplayerarticle right about it.

[SpiderGuard 0]

people, it has NOT passed the senate yet. This was a house vote. It will pass the senate though because its a defense bill. Riders are part of everyday legislature, so this isn't something new. That being said, I would be throughly shocked if in its current form that it hits Bush's desk. Bills get changed a lot even after passing so that they can generally withstand a judicial challenge from someone with standing. What that means is that someone from neteller or a site like Full Tilt would almost certainly challenge the constitutionality of the bill in the supreme court. A regular person can't just challenge. This is far from over, and what everyone should do is look at the people who advocated this rider and vote them out the next time they are up for re election

There is a lot wrong with this post. First, as stated, it HAS passed the Senate. A voice vote is acceptable procedure in this case, and that's what they used. It appears that the same version passed the House and Senate, which means it was the version that went through conference committee, which means that it will see the President's desk in exactly that form. A person from Neteller would likely not have standing in this case unless they went to jail for this. If Full Tilt (Pokerstars, whoever) got shut down in America, then they would have standing to sue. But it seems unlikely that the case makes the Supreme Court, as I'm having trouble finding a constitutional issue here...maybe a lawyer can come up with one regarding the regulation of interstate commerce. I'd be surprised if the Supreme Court even wanted to hear this though. William E. Baxter Jr. vs. United States never made it to the Supreme Court. The District and Circuit Courts ruled in Baxter's favor, and then the United States never chose to appeal to the Supreme Court.

[DanielSon 0]

people, it has NOT passed the senate yet. This was a house vote. It will pass the senate though because its a defense bill. Riders are part of everyday legislature, so this isn't something new. That being said, I would be throughly shocked if in its current form that it hits Bush's desk. Bills get changed a lot even after passing so that they can generally withstand a judicial challenge from someone with standing. What that means is that someone from neteller or a site like Full Tilt would almost certainly challenge the constitutionality of the bill in the supreme court. A regular person can't just challenge. This is far from over, and what everyone should do is look at the people who advocated this rider and vote them out the next time they are up for re election

Read b4 you post pls...kthx bye

[eYank 0]

i posted this in another thread that was locked but remember, one time alcohol was banned in this country. This didnt stop people from drinking, it made it worse. Maybe something similar will happen with this and it will get repealed. Also there are many illegal drugs in the U.S. It is very easy to get a hold of them even though they are illegal. Just something to think about

[DanielSon 0]

i posted this in another thread that was locked but remember, one time alcohol was banned in this country. This didnt stop people from drinking, it made it worse. Maybe something similar will happen with this and it will get repealed. Also there are many illegal drugs in the U.S. It is very easy to get a hold of them even though they are illegal. Just something to think about

I've been watching the news all morning, they've talked about the bill it was attached to passing, but no mention of the gambling portion. Nobody cares but us.

[EStormOk 0]

i posted this in another thread that was locked but remember, one time alcohol was banned in this country. This didnt stop people from drinking, it made it worse. Maybe something similar will happen with this and it will get repealed. Also there are many illegal drugs in the U.S. It is very easy to get a hold of them even though they are illegal. Just something to think about

What you say is true. But I don't use illegal drugs. I don't see myself playing on-line poker either, if it becomes illegal. That is part of the problem. They make it extremely difficult or illegal to participate in On-line poker and it drives away the guys like myself that help add to all the money available on-line, therefore hurting on-line poker in the worst way. There will be those that play regardless, but the numbers will get smaller.

[antistuff 0]

What you say is true. But I don't use illegal drugs. I don't see myself playing on-line poker either, if it becomes illegal. That is part of the problem. They make it extremely difficult or illegal to participate in On-line poker and it drives away the guys like myself that help add to all the money available on-line, therefore hurting on-line poker in the worst way. There will be those that play regardless, but the numbers will get smaller.

this does not make it illegal to play online poker.

[Jordan 1]

What you say is true. But I don't use illegal drugs. I don't see myself playing on-line poker either, if it becomes illegal. That is part of the problem. They make it extremely difficult or illegal to participate in On-line poker and it drives away the guys like myself that help add to all the money available on-line, therefore hurting on-line poker in the worst way. There will be those that play regardless, but the numbers will get smaller.

online poker already was illegal.---we seriously need to march to Washington, get on that big lawn or w/e, get hooked up to WiFi and start playing online poker right there.not a joke.- Jordan

[Bilgefisher 0]

I am a newbie to this forum, I mostly browse because I am a fan of DN. Many of you may not like some of the other forums out there, but 2+2 has an over abundance of information on this in their Legislation Forum. The key names to look for are Berge20 (Moderator and insider), Mr. K (also an insider), and NatetheGreat (Very intelligent and upto date on whats going on).Here's the deal. Yes, when the president signs this into law, many transactions via banks to offshore gambling sites will be illegal. The fight is not over though. Poker players must ban together to start change in the right direction. Some things you can do.-Tell people about this, many non gamblers see this as an invasion to the privacy of their home. Also your average online gambler is totally unaware of what just happened.-Start supporting gambling lobbying groups that will push to legalize online gambling.-Also start pushing to legalize online gambling in your state. This bill does not affect a states right to legalize online gambling. Nevada and North Dokata originally backed down from DoD pressure, but are trying to pass online gambling again. (To be slightly sarcastic, if pot smokers can get bills out there to legalize marajuana, I think we can get a poker bill passed.)- Senator Frist (the guy who pushed this bill) is expected to run for president in 2008. Make your vote count.

[psujohn 0]

I can't believe that Neteller or FirePay would be blocked by this bill. That sort of guilt by association is near impossible to legislate. Otherwise they can just add another step. A NetllerNonGambling electronic payments account that can't be used to fund gambling sites but can be used to fund a Neteller account which in turn can be used to fun a gambling site.I find it particularly amusing that congress attached this to a security bill. Especially seeing as how this only encourages making electronic money transfer more difficult to trace and thereby gives the terrorists a great system to use to move their money around.

[spikymarv99 0]

I am/was a lawyer, but haven't practiced in awhile so take this with a grain of salt. I have read through the bill a few times and it's honestly as bad as it possibly could be. This legislation effectively bans sites IP address which woud not allow us to log on to gaming sites. Additionally, services such as Neteller would effectively be shut down because US banks will no longer be able to conduct transactions with them. The only option is to put on your money on Neteller and use the Neteller card. However, as someone already stated, I doubt that the bill will be the same when it comes to the president's desk. I highly suspect that the IP restriction will not be on it. Now way that gets through. If that's the case, then you can play and use the Neteller card for your money to buy things. This bill basically kills SS and MSHE. The novice players will not go through all this trouble to play. Sad day, but I doubt it's doom for all of us. My coach is literally freaking out and I have tried explaining things to him, but for not. It will still be awhile until this becomes law so play as much as you can now.

[Wicked Clown 0]

This bill bars wagering on "games of chance". Maybe we could go to the Supreme Court and prove that poker is a game of skill...Anyway this is truly disappointing.

Sorry my last poste had to be based on this about the Baxter case.

[DanielSon 0]

Wow, if no more deposits will be allowed I'll have to protect my roll with a vengeance. I think it's time to step down from 4 tabling 0.5/1 NL to single tables of 0.01/0.02....

[zsta2k6 0]

No worries, the bill still allows freerolls... so we will still be asked even more if there are any freerolls here.

[DanielSon 0]

Are we sure Bob can't do anything...He's a pretty big badass....Perhaps he has super secret government connections as well and can make everything better and give everyone a tournament ticket....thx bob

[Ouch-8s 4]

Having actually read the bill, I was just trying to answer some questions that seem to be directly addressed in the bill as it stands right now.That said, I think it's obvious that the intent of this bill is to make it impossible for us to play for money.

Exactly. Please do not say what the bill addresses and what it doesn't if you haven't read it. I did (the rider, anyway) and it contains language to stop neteller transfers, has no 'games of chance vs skill' exemption, suggests blocking sites at the ISP a la China, and language that (to me) suggests anyone who accepts a wager is a felon - poker players accept wagers, not the house. This bill makes poker players criminals.

They become relevant when people start voting for them. You can't just go from 5% of vote one year to 45% four years later. You have to build the base... ...If somehow, the Libertarians were to take 15-20% of the vote in the next presidential election, or even in some major House and Senate races, it would create change almost immediately.

well said

Seriously, voting in this election is like voting between eating filet mignon, a piece of **** with peanuts, or a piece of **** without peanuts. And everyone's saying, well pieces of **** usually win, so I'm gonna vote for the one with peanuts since that has more nutritional value then the one without. Either way you're voting for the same thing, and it's destroying the country.

Nice analogy

I think, or hope that Daniel or Bob (Fcp Info) will shed some light on this situation in the next couple of days. It seems like they would know much more about this then the general public.

The only way that Daniel or Bob will know more is if they read the bill. And you can do that too and see for yourself what it says.

[AcesOnFire 0]

Do everything you can guys, for us Euros too.

[ianb459 0]

C-span video i found on u-tube...maybe you all have seen this already, but here it i anyhow...

Congresswoman from Nevada.

[Teavis 0]

I think Neteller and Firepay will be safe because they can be used to purchase other things online besides virtual betting disks. I really think the only bad that will come of this is direct deposits from banks to online gambling sites and if by some freak chance you are caught using a site. Is it possible that a list of poker sites...um..number things...you know...site locations...drawing a blank...could be given to ISPs and that any ISP has the right to report users on these sites to the local authorities? And we can't think the punishment will be that bad. Just what we need, to clog up over-filled federal prisons with decent people enjoying a hobby (or for some, a living). It seems like the process of proscecuting criminals would be too long and too expensive...it might be possible that violating these laws might only result on a slap on the wrist. I don't know...I'm just speculating...thinking outloud. What I know is that it happened, and we have to deal with it, so we might as well speculate what might happen.

[shinychicken 0]

This is from pocketfives. Just don't panic yet, but worse news is to come:The legislation does not take effect immediately, and internet gambling enthusiasts and online poker players countywide should not panic. “This legislation is quite vague in terms of its implications on payment options for those wanting to gamble on the Internet,” said PocketFives Marketing Director Dan Cypra. “The future of Neteller and Firepay, both offshore companies, remains to be seen.” Jay Bailey, Membership Director of the NROG claimed, “From everything we have seen regarding this bill, it looks like Neteller and Fireplay may be safe.” The Attorney General’s office now has a period of 270 days to determine exactly the extent to which the internet gambling legislation will affect this multi-billion dollar industry enjoyed by millions of Americans.“The best thing we can do is be educated on what this bill will and will not do,” said Cypra. “It is important to remain calm and remain informed.” PocketFives will continue to update its members and visitors on the implications of the internet gambling legislation. It is in constant communication with the Poker Players Alliance (www.pokerplayersalliance.org) and the National Right for Online Gaming (www.nrog.org). “Please continue to visit PocketFives for all the updates and information on this dark day in the world of internet gambling.”

[Gunslinger 0]

I am frustrated and saddened, but not suprised. I will continue to play. I will play online if possible. If it becomes too difficult to play online, I will return to home games or casinos. I am also considering relocating to another country. I do not want to leave my home, friends, and family. Language barriers could be tough, but perhaps it would be a fun change of lifestyle.In reading the bill, it seems to me that at least some states will eventually legalize online poker. I speculate that Frist will get some kind of payment/ownership when this happens.Big picture, I am very sad at what has happened to our country, not just because of online gaming laws. In stripping our freedoms and pandering to fear to win elections, we have let the terrorists win. Over the next generation I see a global religious war between Islam and Christianity with unfathomable numbers of people dying. This could have been prevented if we had better leadership or more active informed citizens.

[spikymarv99 0]

Someone on 2+2 actually had a GREAT idea although he was joking. This bill grants an exemption for all forms of horse racing. The bill doesn't specify whether this includes online horse racing. Due to the rules of construction (vague language will be interpreted against the government), Party could easily start PartyHorses. We would be allowed to deposit and withdraw to that branch of PartyGaming. Then we could just transfer the money to poker. Long shot, but worth looking at.

[eYank 0]

Someone on 2+2 actually had a GREAT idea although he was joking. This bill grants an exemption for all forms of horse racing. The bill doesn't specify whether this includes online horse racing. Due to the rules of construction (vague language will be interpreted against the government), Party could easily start PartyHorses. We would be allowed to deposit and withdraw to that branch of PartyGaming. Then we could just transfer the money to poker. Long shot, but worth looking at.

hahaand horsestars or something lol

[Yoda 1]

Quick, register PoniesPlayingPoker.com!