Did The Floor Get These Hands Right?

[Homesar 0]

I was playing $2/$5 NLHE recently at the Tropicana when the following two hands happended. I was wondering whether the rulings were correct.Hand #1. UTG raised to $25 (standard at this table), I called in late position with AcKc, BB moves all-in for about $300 more, UTG folds. The BB was a pretty good player, but on MAJOR tilt from dropping a little over $1K in 2 hands where he got cold decked (set over set, and nut flush verses straight flush). Moreover, he had moved all-in 4 or 5 times in the previous 2 orbits. I was up about $800 on the day and did not mind flipping a coin for a $650+ pot, plus I thought I might have him dominated, so I called. He had 7h4h. Flop comes AxKx10x, no hearts. He stands up, slaps the table pretty hard, pushes/slams his chair against the table, and storms off. The commotion caused the dealer to pause dealing the turn and the river until the guy stormed off. Turn was a 4, river was a 4. The guys buddy then leaves the table to try and find the guy to tell him that he won the hand, but after waiting about 30 seconds, the dealer gives the pot to me and says that the guy needs to be at the table to collect the pot. The guy returns about 5 minutes later and now really goes on tilt when he finds out his pot was given to me. The floor ruled that I get to keep the pot. What was the proper outcome in this case?Hand #2. About 3 hours later I have about $1.5K in front of me, and a really bad player to my immediate right has about $1.3K in front of him (he hit a pair of 2 outers in big pots to get his stack). The player to my right raises to $25, I call with JJ, and one of the blinds calls. Flop is Jx7h3h. Guy to my right bets $50, I call, blind folds. Turn is a non-heart Q. Guy to my right bets $125, and I raise to $325. The guy to my right is deliberating and I am watching him and next thing I know he moves all-in. I call immediately and turn over my set and he goes "God damn river" and turns over AhXh. I look back towards the dealer and see that the Qh was dealt on the river. A couple of people at the table then point out that the dealer dealt the river card before the guy to my right decided whether to call my raise on the turn, and as such, he never called my raise on the turn. The floor rules that the Qh gets shuffled back into the deck and the guy to my right has to decide whether to call my raise on the turn. He folds. Was this the correct ruling?

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Paging 13Cards..

[CrazyJoe 0]

sounds right in both cases, but i'm not 100% sure, both rulings do make sense though.

[blakheart 3]

2nd hand- They should have reshuffled the river card but the betting should have stood. Both players acted without knowing each others cards. My guess is that the ruling on the 1rst hand is correct, but only a guess.

[CrazyJoe 0]

actually after re-reading hand 2, that's bull. I'm not sure what the correct ruling would be, but it's definitely not fair that he gets to act on the turn after seeing your hole cards.

[Homesar 0]

2nd hand- They should have reshuffled the river card but the betting should have stood. Both players acted without knowing each others cards. My guess is that the ruling on the 1rst hand is correct, but only a guess.

I'm not sure whether the betting should have stood in the second hand. He probably would not have moved all-in if he had not made the nut flush. If the river card goes back in the deck, I don't think it would be fair for the betting to stand. Moreover, I think this was the "fair" ruling because had the river been a heart that did not pair the board, I would have been pissed if the river was not put back in the deck. I just don't know whether it was the correct ruling.

[Socrates 0]

Correct in case 1. I'm confused about hand 2 - did he see the dealer turn the card over and then move in? My guess is that the dealer knew what you had and that you were calling and just started the process a split second before you called. I just can't see how a table full of people don't say "whoa" if he's turning the river up before you act on his all in.

[GWCGWC 83]

1st hands goofy. If the player still has chips on the table, some places would push the pot even though he walked off. This dude had no chips infront of him and I'm surprised they didn't fill his seat immediatly.2nd hand.dealer error sucks man. whatcha gonna do. The card should be shuffled back into the deck, the bets stand. I like offering the dude SOME of his money back instead of dealing the last card. If he's a true donk, I'd make up rediculous odds and tell him he can take that percentage of the pot back. If the rest of the table shuts up, you can get away with this.

[semaj550 0]

I am quite sure the 1st hand was decided correctly.The second hand was handled terribly in my opinion. I agree with the previous poster that the river should be redealt but the betting should stand. It's complete bull that the other play gets to change his action after seeing your hole cards, dealer error or not. I'm a little confused though. You said that he reraised all-in on the turn and you called. How could the dealer have dealt the river while he was deciding to call your raise?

[Homesar 0]

Correct in case 1. I'm confused about hand 2 - did he see the dealer turn the card over and then move in? My guess is that the dealer knew what you had and that you were calling and just started the process a split second before you called. I just can't see how a table full of people don't say "whoa" if he's turning the river up before you act on his all in.

My understanding was that the dealer dealt the river before the guy to my right acted on the turn. The guy to my right did not move all-in until after he saw he made the nut flush on the river.

[Socrates 0]

1st hands goofy. If the player still has chips on the table, some places would push the pot even though he walked off. This dude had no chips infront of him and I'm surprised they didn't fill his seat immediatly.2nd hand.dealer error sucks man. whatcha gonna do. The card should be shuffled back into the deck, the bets stand. I like offering the dude SOME of his money back instead of dealing the last card. If he's a true donk, I'd make up rediculous odds and tell him he can take that percentage of the pot back. If the rest of the table shuts up, you can get away with this.

1st - hand alot of casinos will declare the hand dead if you leave your seat the poker room area in the middle of a hand2nd - the guy was losing all his money anyway - even if he doesn't see the river turned early and pushed its in, if he did see it and pushed on that information he's still going to lose. He doesn't get any of this back in my opinion.

My understanding was that the dealer dealt the river before the guy to my right acted on the turn. The guy to my right did not move all-in until after he saw he made the nut flush on the river.

He tried to take advantage of a situation then. Betting stands - karma is a b%$ch

[semaj550 0]

My understanding was that the dealer dealt the river before the guy to my right acted on the turn. The guy to my right did not move all-in until after he saw he made the nut flush on the river.

If that's the case, the floor f'ed this up huge. His bet should have stood and the river should not have been redealt.

[Homesar 0]

I am quite sure the 1st hand was decided correctly.The second hand was handled terribly in my opinion. I agree with the previous poster that the river should be redealt but the betting should stand. It's complete bull that the other play gets to change his action after seeing your hole cards, dealer error or not. I'm a little confused though. You said that he reraised all-in on the turn and you called. How could the dealer have dealt the river while he was deciding to call your raise?

I thought it was the turn (since I had not seen the river card dealt while watching the guy to my right deliberate and I was waiting for him to make a decision), but in reality, the river card was dealt and he was moving all-in on the river (he saw the card dealt) without having made a decision on the turn. I was calling all-in thinking it was the turn. I'm not sure what should have been done.

[delphi12 0]

Edited:How can anoyone think that the ruling on #1 is INcorrect? What if he went all in on the next hand and lost all the money? Who would then reimburse the original guy who should have wons money? I believe what is best for the game, and safest for the casino is to push the pot to the last remaining player AT THE TABLE who has a hand. Period.

[AK33 0]

I agree with the previous posts about #2. If your opponent acted after the river card was dealt the bet should stand. I also think the Qh should have remained the river card. If anything you should have gotten your raise on the turn back had you lost the hand because he never acted on it until after the river.

[brvheart 1,752]

I was playing $2/$5 NLHE recently at the Tropicana when the following two hands happended. I was wondering whether the rulings were correct.Hand #1. UTG raised to $25 (standard at this table), I called in late position with AcKc, BB moves all-in for about $300 more, UTG folds. The BB was a pretty good player, but on MAJOR tilt from dropping a little over $1K in 2 hands where he got cold decked (set over set, and nut flush verses straight flush). Moreover, he had moved all-in 4 or 5 times in the previous 2 orbits. I was up about $800 on the day and did not mind flipping a coin for a $650+ pot, plus I thought I might have him dominated, so I called. He had 7h4h. Flop comes AxKx10x, no hearts. He stands up, slaps the table pretty hard, pushes/slams his chair against the table, and storms off. The commotion caused the dealer to pause dealing the turn and the river until the guy stormed off. Turn was a 4, river was a 4. The guys buddy then leaves the table to try and find the guy to tell him that he won the hand, but after waiting about 30 seconds, the dealer gives the pot to me and says that the guy needs to be at the table to collect the pot. The guy returns about 5 minutes later and now really goes on tilt when he finds out his pot was given to me. The floor ruled that I get to keep the pot. What was the proper outcome in this case?Hand #2. About 3 hours later I have about $1.5K in front of me, and a really bad player to my immediate right has about $1.3K in front of him (he hit a pair of 2 outers in big pots to get his stack). The player to my right raises to $25, I call with JJ, and one of the blinds calls. Flop is Jx7h3h. Guy to my right bets $50, I call, blind folds. Turn is a non-heart Q. Guy to my right bets $125, and I raise to $325. The guy to my right is deliberating and I am watching him and next thing I know he moves all-in. I call immediately and turn over my set and he goes "God damn river" and turns over AhXh. I look back towards the dealer and see that the Qh was dealt on the river. A couple of people at the table then point out that the dealer dealt the river card before the guy to my right decided whether to call my raise on the turn, and as such, he never called my raise on the turn. The floor rules that the Qh gets shuffled back into the deck and the guy to my right has to decide whether to call my raise on the turn. He folds. Was this the correct ruling?

What the crap kind of dealers does this casino hire? Are they street performers or something?How can a dealer deal a river card before the turn action is even over. That guy not only called the raise the first time, because he ALREADY KNEW he had the flush... but then he got to take it back... you got screwed in BOTH cases.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

You win some, you lose some. you won one and lost one in the same night. Net gain=0

[brvheart 1,752]

If that's the case, the floor f'ed this up huge. His bet should have stood and the river should not have been redealt.

This is correct. Call the casino and ask them to review the tapes and refund your 1k.

[stan394 0]

without adding anything to the topic, I just want to say:THAT's some wacko hands

[Socrates 0]

What the crap kind of dealers does this casino hire? Are they street performers or something?How can a dealer deal a river card before the turn action is even over. That guy not only called the raise the first time, because he ALREADY KNEW he had the flush... but then he got to take it back... you got screwed in BOTH cases.

How did it happen in hand #2 - 1. Deqlers usually know what you have, he probably thought the guy was insta calling anyway - not right, but still, if you spend enough time in casinos you'll see the dealer acting prematurely and is usually right (at least I see it a lot)2. He may have thought the OP just called when he put his chips in thinking the hands may have been oppositeJust a thought. Otherwise, with all of the tp/mm college drop out "pros" going to Vegas and getting dealer jobs I'm not surprised that they have issues. Most of the players these days don't know the rules of the game they're playing. No offense but the OP is case in point as well as a lot of posters on here.

[WhatArunAA 0]

"The BB was a pretty good player, but on MAJOR tilt from dropping a little over $1K in 2 hands where he got cold decked (set over set, and nut flush verses straight flush). " that isnt a cold deck.. that is a COOLER sir.. cold deck is getttting horrible cards for a lonnnnnnng time

[semaj550 0]

The dealer could potentially be forgiven for his slip up. The floor, however, cannot. That was one of the worst decisions I've heard of from a floor.

[AK33 0]

This is correct. Call the casino and ask them to review the tapes and refund your 1k.

No way it would work but how sweet would it be if it did. I don't know anyone that has even attempted this.

[Homesar 0]

What the crap kind of dealers does this casino hire? Are they street performers or something?How can a dealer deal a river card before the turn action is even over. That guy not only called the raise the first time, because he ALREADY KNEW he had the flush... but then he got to take it back... you got screwed in BOTH cases.

The dealers were pretty bad (although I did like the poker room). There were 5 or 6 other substantial dealer mistakes during this session (which was about 10 hours), but I wasn't involved in those hands so I don't remember the details.

[semaj550 0]

At the very least I would have a discussion with casino management. Their dealers and floor staff are clearly incompetant based on your accounts and they should be happy to have this brought to their attention.