NoSup4U 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Who are YOU to tell ME what i care about. Based on your statements, its safe to assume that the following statements are true:1. I have played poker for longer than you.2. I have made more money playing poker than you.3. I have won more tournaments than you4. I will continue to do #'s 2 and 3 for the rest of my existence.Sorry, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, just inferring from what you have been saying. I don't feel that you are maximizing your chances to win if you don't put yourself in the best position to win all the chips possible. And in this case, allowing a 3rd person to stay in a pot decreases your chances of winning that pot, there is no way around it.I don't know anything about how long you've played or what you've accomplished, but I wish you the best and if you're winning lifetime then you're doing better than 90% of the people playing poker and I congratulate you and hope to see you around the tournament circuit :)Mark Link to post Share on other sites
jowest 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Ok here is the easiest way for me to make my point:You can not win the tournament without having all the chips.And I can say: You can lose the tournament if players are eliminated. But you can't say: You can lose the tournament with all the chips.So while a lot of people might make a lot of arguments against my thoughts on this issue and be right, you I beat hands down here.MarkOk first off,I need to appologise for my attitude earlier. Someone must have piss.ed in my weaties this morning. I really should not have made it so personal.However,You can not have all the chips if players are not eliminated. I am sorry but I win. While having all the chips is very very important, you can not have them without eliminated players. Thus proving my argument that it is a happy mix of both.AAHHHHHHHHthank you Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 To the OP, there is no etiquette in this situation. It simply is often best for all concerned (except the all-in player) to check it down. This has developed into the absolute of 'never bluff a dry side pot'. Anybody that quotes and believes this gets the fish tag from me as they obviously don't think about their poker.The nuts. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Ok first off,I need to appologise for my attitude earlier. Someone must have piss.ed in my weaties this morning. I really should not have made it so personal.However,You can not have all the chips if players are not eliminated. I am sorry but I win. While having all the chips is very very important, you can not have them without eliminated players. Thus proving my argument that it is a happy mix of both.AAHHHHHHHHthank you Well said Jowest. I was a donk as well in this thread. I hate myself anytime I contribute to the excessive flaming/stupidity that goes on from time to time in this forum, instead of just attempting to add some poker knowledge for the masses, and for that I'm sorry.We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, but thats ok, because its poker and thats what its all about, everyone finding their own way to the finish line :)Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Teffy 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 hug it out b!tch Link to post Share on other sites
nopunk 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 If you guys are finished waxing each others carrots...?I think the problem is entired based on some people not understanding what a bluff actually is.If you think you have a better hand than someone who can't be forced out of a pot, but a worse hand than someone who can be, then you bet, it is not a bluff.This is called protecting your hand.Bluff: to deter or frighten by pretense or a mere show of strengthProtect: to cover or shield from exposure, injury, damage, or destruction I really hope everyone can use these two terms correctly from now on./PSA Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 No, this makes little sense. Some events are more probable than others. Simply counting the number of unfavorable amounts and comparing it to the amount of favorable events has no meaning. One would really need to have a concrete example and assign percentages to different scenarios to determine whether something has a positive expectation value or not.I don't think so. I think I can get away with a qualitative analysis on this one. We can use the "rule of thumb" scenario by saying all other things being equal, etc. Perhaps +EV is not the right term. Certainly, eliminating one player in a 300-entry MTT has a less dramatic effect than eliminating one in a SnG. I'm looking at it from a number of possible outcomes and simply counting up (qualitatively) the number of "positive" outcomes in any given scenario to "negative" ones. I defined the difference for the purposes of my argument. The only thing that could possibly make a difference is stack size, meaning, you need to invest the rest of your chips because of the size of the pot, but really, that scenario should only arise if you a) donked it or B) were completely not expecting a call from the villain who did, and left yourself shortstacked. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Totally agree. I think you need to factor in long term equity as well though. For instance, just because making a certain move in one tournament might net you some extra money, if you make that same move over and over, do you expect to win more or less? I think that is where a lot of people disagree on this issue.I think you're confused about what the word equity means. Equity assumes that a move is made over and over. It is the average that a move makes over the long run. Or rather, it is the sum over all events of the value of an event weighted by the probability of the event occuring. The probability is derived from, over the long run, how often the event occurs. So, the concept of equity already includes the long term effects. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 hug it out b!tchnh Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 it seems to me that there are two options in dry side pots:1. give myself the best chance possible to win the main pot.2. not give myself the best chance to win the main pot.i don't think liking #1 better makes me a donk. or mark. Link to post Share on other sites
Vick12 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Dearest Tard Colony,I have read a bunch of CRAZY **** talked in this thread...including people calling NoSup names like Donk, Idiot, Moron, etc....I have just one itsy bitsy question for the class....Since you all have such a VAST amount of knowledge in MTT play and I am sure you have made TONS of cash playing, I ask you this.....A. Have you made 90k in a SINGLE MTT in your entire life?ORB. Does your ENTIRE MTT winnings equal less than 5k?If you can answers YES to A....then feel free to tel NoSup he's a donk.If the answer is indeed B...then u need to STFU and maybe listen to what a WSOP FINAL TABLEIST has to say.Good Day All! Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Dearest Tard Colony,I have read a bunch of CRAZY **** talked in this thread...including people calling NoSup names like Donk, Idiot, Moron, etc....I have just one itsy bitsy question for the class....Since you all have such a VAST amount of knowledge in MTT play and I am sure you have made TONS of cash playing, I ask you this.....A. Have you made 90k in a SINGLE MTT in your entire life?ORB. Does your ENTIRE MTT winnings equal less than 5k?If you can answers YES to A....then feel free to tel NoSup he's a donk.If the answer is indeed B...then u need to STFU and maybe listen to what a WSOP FINAL TABLEIST has to say.Good Day All!that is not a word. Link to post Share on other sites
Vick12 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 that is not a word.ADORABLE Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 ADORABLEsnicker. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 ADORABLEHe drinks Fiji water. In the words of Paris: Thats Hot! Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 He drinks Fiji water. In the words of Paris: Thats Hot!lol, you guys can go to hell. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 lol, you guys can go to hell.My laptop is worth more than your car.I wonder if they'll shut us down for spamming the hell out of this thread?Mark Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 lol, you guys can go to hell.QFT Link to post Share on other sites
chessazhole 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 If you want to "win the tournament" I think you have a better chance heads up then in a 3 way game.... Right? Link to post Share on other sites
PoppinFresh 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 NOSUP4U KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUTCHECKY TOOTABLEIST IS IN FACT A WORD Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 If you want to "win the tournament" I think you have a better chance heads up then in a 3 way game.... Right?I dunno. How many chips do you have? And AWAY we go!Mark Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 NOSUP4U KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUTCHECKY TOOTABLEIST IS IN FACT A WORD you, sir, have just created a logical problem. Link to post Share on other sites
PoppinFresh 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 you, sir, have just created a logical problem. HEADS UP?edit: oh and vick12 too Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 HEADS UP?THREE IN A ROW. THREE IN A ROW. Link to post Share on other sites
Vick12 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 TABLEIST IS IN FACT A WORDQFT....?If you want to "win the tournament" I think you have a better chance heads up then in a 3 way game.... Right? I dunno. How many chips do you have? And AWAY we go!MarkAnswer...NOSUP4U KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUTWhy?Dearest Tard Colony,Since you all have such a VAST amount of knowledge in MTT play and I am sure you have made TONS of cash playing, I ask you this.....A. Have you made 90k in a SINGLE MTT in your entire life?ORB. Does your ENTIRE MTT winnings equal less than 5k?If you can answers YES to A....then feel free to tel NoSup he's a donk.If the answer is indeed B...then u need to STFU and maybe listen to what a WSOP FINAL TABLEIST has to say.Good Day All!Good Day! Link to post Share on other sites
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