Soft Play Scenario/disagreement (bit Long)

[TheWatchMan 0]

ok, i have a friend on a european site, im english.. we discuss hands and have agreed when at a table we will stay away from eachother and play our edge over our opponents.so we are at a $ 2 4 PL omaha hi lo...i have AhAs8hJs on the BB, its limped round to me and i bet $24.he calls as does one other player who has less than both of us.. we have $400 to his $80.the flop is Qh9s3d, and i bet $36 as a standard continuation witha pretty strong hand. also im an aggressive player and have bet the flop in almost all multiway raised pots.he calls, and the 3rd unknown player calls and is pretty much all in at this point. now the turn is the 6h, giving me the nut flush draw, a rough low draw, and my pair of aces.at this point i check, because the third player is all in. and we have agreed to stay clear of one another, and i havent got the nuts.so here is where the dilemma lies, he bets he bets $150 approx. the size of the pot.i say to him "you better have it" and fold my hand.the river falls, (sorry cant remember what it was) and he turns over KK68..for a pair of kings and a bad low draw.i dont want to lead your judgement by passing comment on what i thought of the situation.so please just let me know what you thought his motivation was in the hand.he says he was betting the best hand, i say he was betting to go h u because he knew i'd fold due to the fact that he had a "friendly policy" and i had checked.

[Vogelb5 0]

If your slowplaying each other.. do it right. He took advantage of the situation. If the other player still had actions to be made, maybe there's some point in it. But with him all in and just you two left. He got greedy and bet you out. Not enough to fight over, but definately say something and sure up your policy of playing each other. Get it figured out.

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

ok, i have a friend on a european site, im english.. we discuss hands and have agreed when at a table we will stay away from eachother and play our edge over our opponents.so we are at a $ 2 4 PL omaha hi lo...i have AhAs8hJs on the BB, its limped round to me and i bet $24.he calls as does one other player who has less than both of us.. we have $400 to his $80.the flop is Qh9s3d, and i bet $36 as a standard continuation witha pretty strong hand.he calls, and the 3rd unknown player calls and is pretty much all in at this point. now the turn is the 6h, giving me the nut flush draw, a rough low draw, and my pair of aces.at this point i check, because the third player is all in. and we have agreed to stay clear of one another, and i havent got the nuts.so here is where the dilemma lies, he bets he bets $150 approx. the size of the pot.i say to him "you better have it" and fold my hand.the river falls, (sorry cant remember what it was) and he turns over KK68..for a pair of kings and a bad low draw.i dont want to lead your judgement by passing comment on what i thought of the situation.so please just let me know what you thought his motivation was in the hand.he says he was betting the best hand, i say he was betting to go h u because he knew i'd fold due to the fact that he had a "friendly policy" and i had checked.

too bad you didnt think that he was playing the friendly policy to his advantage during the hand, called and whooped his ***

[troyomac 0]

Just don't make aggreements with friends. If you can, try to switch tables...I usually do that, as I hate taking money from my friends, and they hate taking it from me...but when we're at a table together, we have it known that we will play against each other.

[Player1 0]

Hi Guys, I was the player in the other end of the stream. And I agree with the previous. Given the way the story is given, ofcourse it would be outrageous to do so. However - that is not how the story is. This is the story:The 3rd player is all in before the flop and is sharing only 60% of the pot. The last 40% is for me and my friend to share. My friend and I are in other words playing heads up after the flop. And now my question is this.IF we have a complete non attack agreement between us. Can he then make a bet on the flop with AAJ8, which he tells me he has? Is that consistent with the idea of not attacking each other?

[TheWatchMan 0]

ok, my bet on the flop, in my mind, is saying i had THE BEST hand preflop.. if you have a better hand, raise and ill pass immediatley.if you have a calling hand, call and we'll check the turn, if youve not hit a good flop, fold.fair?

[Bishop 0]

In my opinion if you guys have an agreement with eachother, then the bet on the flop should be the amount the third guy has left, to put him all in, then you two should check the rest down. Of course that is technically cheating but what the hell.Bishop

[Mercury69 3]

I think you're both idiots for playing like that. Friends at the poker table? Puh-leeze.I'm being a bit sarcastic, because I wouldn't want to be taken advantage of nor would I want to take advantage of a friend, but "agreements" like the one you guys have is kind of dopey.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I think you're both idiots for playing like that. Friends at the poker table? Puh-leeze.I'm being a bit sarcastic, because I wouldn't want to be taken advantage of nor would I want to take advantage of a friend, but "agreements" like the one you guys have is kind of dopey.

Dont be sarcastic,!You're absolutely correct., wtf is this online dating???give me a break, he suckered you good"hj;s hgdushkl lsjdks" i just threw a copy of super systems on my keyboard and it makes more sense than what the original poster said.

[chipinchair 0]

Dont be sarcastic,!You're absolutely correct., wtf is this online dating???give me a break, he suckered you good"hj;s hgdushkl lsjdks" i just threw a copy of super systems on my keyboard and it makes more sense than what the original poster said.

Not only that but it is collusion and border-line cheating. If the sites online monitor your games and you 'soft-play' each other, then you will be banned and lose all of your money. Play the game to win! I would slow-play Aces against my Grandmother.

[TheSkearnel 0]

ok, my bet on the flop, in my mind, is saying i had THE BEST hand preflop.. if you have a better hand, raise and ill pass immediatley.if you have a calling hand, call and we'll check the turn, if youve not hit a good flop, fold.fair?

This is collusion in it's most simple form. Not only are you softplaying, but you are developing a pattern of betting that tells each other who had the best of it, and are making an agreement as to the outcome should x happen, or y happens.Here's a better idea than the one mentioned above. Stop cheating, and you won't get your *** kicked by the people you play with.-Shawn K

[Player1 0]

Again as being the other end of the stream, I like to comment to the comments.I dont really agree with your guys, that it is collusion. In fact he tries to force me out on the flop - thereby giving the 3rd player, that is all in preflop, a larger chance of winning the hand.What 2 players are doing when they are heads up can really not affect any other players. And it would only be collusion, if we decided to stay in both of us for the purpose of reducing the 3rd players chance of winning. This was clearly not the case.However, I like the clean mind of you guys, and I do agree, that it is a good idea to set the line on the safe side of fair play. Therefore people should simply not make agreements unless they are purely in 100% heads up situations.Now it happens to be, that this is about the first time we have been sharing a table, since I dont like to play with a friend. And we did really not have a 100% non attack agreement - what we did have was an agreement not to use knowledge from our talks to beat each other out of the table.And we did have an agreement not to give tricks to the others on how to outplay us. And quite frankly - if you have a discussion partner, he will know things about your game, that no person can ever know. It can not possibly be, that this information shall be used in a ring game.However we have taken the logical consequence of this incident and the good comments there has been made. Friends should not play on the same table OR they should accept to play a tough game, where they try to take each others chips- just like other players.We almost could have crippled our friendship for this hand - but that did luckily not happen - and the pot even went to the one that had the strongest hand on the river anyway.So much for that string.

[Edenfield 0]

The only agreement I have with my friends either online or live is that I will try to take all their money if I can........if you're not going to play poker don't play at the same table

[finztotheleft 0]

It's really hard to win the "I am an honest cheater and my friend is a dishonest cheater" arguement.

[Mercury69 3]

I liked the part where one guy kisses the other...on the sphincter.

[blakheart 3]

Dude-This is completely unethical. If you gus decide once a player is all in to not bet each other out, then you are hurting the all ins chance of winning the pot. What if Player 1 thinks he has the best hand, therfore the op folds, and then the third guy spikes a card that allows him to split the pot with the best low. And lets say that low would have been beat by the op. If you slow play each other, you are costing the all in half of a pot. That is team playing, and it is wrong. You either need to sit at different tables or play hard against each other. Slowplaying is cheating the other players, pure and simple.http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...?a_id=77&m_id=3

[thechad5 0]

ok, my bet on the flop, in my mind, is saying i had THE BEST hand preflop.. if you have a better hand, raise and ill pass immediatley.if you have a calling hand, call and we'll check the turn, if youve not hit a good flop, fold.fair?

Two things:1) What you are asking for here IS collusion plain and simple...you should be banned from ever playing at the same table 2)You said earlier that when you made the bet off the Flop you called it a "standard contiuation bet". A continuation bet, by definition is a play made to diguise the strength of your hand, by making a "continuation" bet you are firing at the pot regardless of what you have or what the flop is.JMOChad

[tripdeuces 0]

WEAK SAUCE!Rationalizing cheating doesn't really work well. An agreement by two players who are playing at a table is unfair to the rest.

[TheWatchMan 0]

not really the issue.but point taken, we're just playing to win now.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Pretty simple here guys. Don't softplay online, Don't softplay in games where money matters, Pretty much don't softplay period. If you can't handle taking their money, then don't play with your friends. A FCP friend of mine and I used to play a lot of limit hold'em together. We'd play and analyze hands at the same time sometimes. We played .5/1 the vast majority of the time and we played to win. We even played 2/4 part of the time and while we probably didn't go out of our way to play pots against each other, we would never have considered softplaying. It was a chance to play poker with a friend and discuss strategy and maybe learn a bit about poker. The bottom line is this, you guys were playing a game with a $400 buy-in. That's not really a friendly game of poker. Poker is cutthroat. If you can't handle that, don't play at the same table as someone you consider a friend. Oh and ..... NEVER, EVER, EVER SOFTPLAY. IT'S CHEATING!

[CobaltBlue 662]

First off, from a strategic standpoint, I'm not sure that an overpair qualifies as a "pretty strong hand" in Omaha.Second off, I was put into a potential softplay scenario about a week ago when I was at a casino playing in a 1/2 NLHE game. My brother just happened to get sat at the same table in the seat to my left. MP limped. I limped with 22. My brother raised on the button. MP called. I would've folded, but with MP coming along, I called. Flop was A23. I bet. My brother raised...and I was put into a painful situation...and actually showed that by my expression. The table was aware that we were brothers and there was intense interest in the hand. I called. Turn was blank. I checked. He bet. I called. River got checked. He had AK. When he raised the flop, I put him on AA or AK...and I was prepared to call down. I don't know exactly why I cited this, but I am curious if you guys think any of this was unethical on my part.

[TheWatchMan 0]

if that was a live situation, i would have been like, wtf.. which obv means my online behaviour is unethical.but im not doing it again, it causes arguments with mates. if you sit at a card table with me, i want your money...unless its a tournament... LOL

[TheCinciKid 0]

First off, from a strategic standpoint, I'm not sure that an overpair qualifies as a "pretty strong hand" in Omaha.Second off, I was put into a potential softplay scenario about a week ago when I was at a casino playing in a 1/2 NLHE game. My brother just happened to get sat at the table next to me. MP limped. I limped with 22. My brother raised on the button. MP called. I would've folded, but with MP coming along, I called. Flop was A23. I bet. My brother raised...and I was put into a painful situation...and actually showed that by my expression. The table was aware that we were brothers and there was intense interest in the hand. I called. Turn was blank. I checked. He bet. I called. River got checked. He had AK. When he raised the flop, I put him on AA or AK...and I was prepared to call down. I don't know exactly why I cited this, but I am curious if you guys think any of this was unethical on my part.

That's a tough spot to be in. I have no idea how I'd react in a situation like that. I think the ethical play might be to try to play the hand the same way you would if it was anyone else and if you feel bad about it at all you can give him his money back later. I dunno though, such a tough spot.