Pot Odds Argument

[Socrates 0]

Sorry guys lemme explain a little more. 1. One of my best friends, guy I graduated college with, he moved to Buffalo.. we were playing at the same table. Not reraising for each other or doing anything to cheat towards others. Of course we would soft play each other heads up though. 2. Obviously it's a good flop for 44.. I was on the button and 3 were in ahead of me so I called the raise. I dumbed down the numbers after the flop because it didn't really matter. I was just trying to get it explained to me as easily as possible. 3. He was first to act and raised.. everyone folded between us.. at that point I basically put him on aruond there, but he also told me. At that point I folded since we soft play each other and there was no one else in the hand that is effected.Against a random opponent I would definatley see a card if it's fairly cheap. Like someone said not sure how much you'll get paid w/ 4 to a straight on board (if I either hit straight or set). Ok.. so change it to the river.. not factoring if you'll get paid off (implied odds) what would the straight math be for chasing a flush after the turn (only the river to come)..About 18-20% right? So If there's 8 in the pot.. and they bet 2.. getting the odds to call that right?but if they bet 6 into 8.. it's not equaling the odds of hitting..I thought it was just easy math formula.. not counting chances of getting paid off.. apparently I'm underthinking it..

I love people who say the first guy to act on the flop raised.

[Vogelb5 0]

I love people who say the first guy to act on the flop raised.

Oh you *******.. just answer the question. Haha, too much typing, got caught not paying attention.. you know what I mean.

[XX44466XX 0]

Fight!

[rog 0]

It's about time someone introduced you to a very good friend of mine, Mr. Implied Odds.

Yeah, he's a good guy, but sometimes he just tells you what you want to hear, so take him with a grain of salt.

[cub4life31 0]

\Like a previous poster said, small pocket pairs are not very profitable unless you hit your set, which you can expect to do 1 in 5 or 6 hands.

8.5:1 odds approximately, but not all that important in this case.As others have said, the math is flawed on both sides, and even so it's only a small part of the argument. Checkymcfold lays the issues out well.If you want actual advice on the hand, it would help to provide more info (who acted in what way preflop, in what position, (if possible) reads on the player from previous hands, etc. It's very helpful in determining what hands he/she could have. Hard to definitively say "call" or "fold" otherwise.-cub4life31

[Actuary 3]

8.5:1 odds approximately

actually, its ~ 7.5 : 1 on the flop, but who's counting

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

i have to agree with you herei dont think there is any way to fold that here

Yeah, I'm not sure I could fold a pocket pair with two overs on the board when I put someone on a bigger overpair. Ladies and gentlemen, the impossible fold.

[psujohn 0]

There's an awful lot of reading comprehension difficulty going on here. OP doesn't want advice on the hand. OP wants a simple explaination of pot odds and how to use them to determine if you should make a call.I'm sure you can find that one the web somewhere but ...if you play limit HE read SSHEif you play tourny HE read HOH1if you play cash NLHE read the upcoming 2+2 bookThough I haven't read them all I suspect that any of the 2+2 "intro" books will have a good discussion of Pot Odds - Getting Started in Hold'Em for example. The Pot Odds section of SSHE is better than the equivalent section in HOH.

[cub4life31 0]

actually, its ~ 7.5 : 1 on the flop, but who's counting

Apologies...3:30 AM, played for 8 straight hours, etc, etc...

[Mercury69 3]

Implied odds...if you don't hit your out on the turn, you need to factor in the total cost of hanging in there for your 6 outs. My other arguement is as follows: Odds are that pot will never be legal in the USA, despite some credible pros to do so.Who's next for the urine sample?

[screech 0]

Quit poker.

[SweetDaddyFreak 0]

I would probably call the bet on the flop and if he bets the turn get up and slap him in the face then yell at him at the top of my lungs about implied odds and set value. This way he will check the river to you if you dont hit and may be able to pick off an AK or AQ

[pirana 0]

Yes. For example, if you have 2-3 clubs and your only outs after the turn is a club, there is a 20% probability that you will get a flush on the river (9/46). With an $8 pot, calling a $2 bet on the turn is only 17% of the total pot [2 / (8 + 2 + 20], so it would be correct to call. If your opponent bets $6, it would cost you 30% of the pot to call [6 / (8 + 6 + 6)], which is more than your 20% odds of winning, so it is better to fold.Poker takes a lifetime to master, but until you understand the basic math such as above, you should avoid gambling with real money against the players that can calculate pot odds, odds of winning, range of hands, implied odds, bluffing factor, etc. Fortunately for you, nobody else in this thread knows how to make basic calculations, judging by all the useless responses you got!

what would the straight math be for chasing a flush after the turn (only the river to come)..About 18-20% right? So If there's 8 in the pot.. and they bet 2.. getting the odds to call that right?but if they bet 6 into 8.. it's not equaling the odds of hitting..

[profxavier9 0]

Yes. For example, if you have 2-3 clubs and your only outs after the turn is a club, there is a 20% probability that you will get a flush on the river (9/46). With an $8 pot, calling a $2 bet on the turn is only 17% of the total pot [2 / (8 + 2 + 20], so it would be correct to call. If your opponent bets $6, it would cost you 30% of the pot to call [6 / (8 + 6 + 6)], which is more than your 20% odds of winning, so it is better to fold.Poker takes a lifetime to master, but until you understand the basic math such as above, you should avoid gambling with real money against the players that can calculate pot odds, odds of winning, range of hands, implied odds, bluffing factor, etc. Fortunately for you, nobody else in this thread knows how to make basic calculations, judging by all the useless responses you got!

and until really tight players realize this is a game and not a math equation i dont think they should be gambling either. ye you should KNOW the math but it isnt the be all and end all. its definently more important in cash games.

[eYank 0]

Yeah, I'm not sure I could fold a pocket pair with two overs on the board when I put someone on a bigger overpair. Ladies and gentlemen, the impossible fold.

ok i meant not there is no way u can fold but i probably wouldnt

[Vogelb5 0]

Yes. For example, if you have 2-3 clubs and your only outs after the turn is a club, there is a 20% probability that you will get a flush on the river (9/46). With an $8 pot, calling a $2 bet on the turn is only 17% of the total pot [2 / (8 + 2 + 20], so it would be correct to call. If your opponent bets $6, it would cost you 30% of the pot to call [6 / (8 + 6 + 6)], which is more than your 20% odds of winning, so it is better to fold.Poker takes a lifetime to master, but until you understand the basic math such as above, you should avoid gambling with real money against the players that can calculate pot odds, odds of winning, range of hands, implied odds, bluffing factor, etc. Fortunately for you, nobody else in this thread knows how to make basic calculations, judging by all the useless responses you got!

Thanks Pirana. I was just argueing w/ a friend who was doing the math right. So I was right. That's all I was looking for.. the hand didnt matter. Obviously I would call a small bet from the first example, but that wasn't my question.I've been playing long enough, I can do the math/odds and all that basically automatically.. my friend was just arugeing that I was doing it incorrectly. And I wanted to double check that I was doing it correctly.Thanks again Pirana.

[Dratj 0]

Thanks Pirana. I was just argueing w/ a friend who was doing the math right. So I was right. That's all I was looking for.. the hand didnt matter. Obviously I would call a small bet from the first example, but that wasn't my question.I've been playing long enough, I can do the math/odds and all that basically automatically.. my friend was just arugeing that I was doing it incorrectly. And I wanted to double check that I was doing it correctly.Thanks again Pirana.

Think outside the box guys. Implied odds? Do you never go for a flush or straight draw because someone potted the flop? You could say that you are getting 2 to 1 but to hit it's about 4 or 5 to 1 so you fold? NO! you call, esp the up and down draw because if you hit, you can take your opponents stack if it's deep enough to justify the pot odds. of course you don't call if your opponent is all in or very short stack and you don't make your odds even if all the money goes in. A simple way of looking at it is set mining. Is is right to call a bet with 33 when utg raises to 5x the big blind and has AA? Yes, if you think you opponent will call off his whole stack if you hit your set and your are getting 8 to1 implied odds.

[mal_clarke 0]

No one has mentioned discounting outs which is important when discussing implied odds. Depending on what your opponent has you could be drawing dead so thats worth considering too.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

No one has mentioned discounting outs which is important when discussing implied odds. Depending on what your opponent has you could be drawing dead so thats worth considering too.

You mean like, if I hit my set of fours on a 7634 board, there's a chance I might not have the best hand?Sir, I'm gonna have to ask you to keep that kind of talk in the strategy sections.

[mal_clarke 0]

Thought it was relevant. Back to fishdom!